Anybody play with one of these => ReVolt? It seems like and interesting concept but I am not sure about any benefit or improvement over a regular bolt style gun.
POF ReVolt
- Thread starter buskin
- Start date
Living in NJ. I may need to buy one. Gotta Socialist Ass for a Govenor. Looking at the 5.56 to be converted to 224 Valkerie....
Right off the top of my head I see 2 issues.
Ammo COL limited to AR mag length (~2.25")
Cases that stick in the chamber are gonne take a mighty pull to break loose.
Bolt actions have a little ramp at the top of the bolt throw that starts the extraction with some real mechanical advantage.
ARs have the momentum of the bolt and gas pressure to start the extraction.
I can see a few shooter bopping themselves in the face trying to extract a fired case with their support hand.
I have an idea how to increase extraction force but I'm not just gonna give it away.
It's still kinda cool though.
I made a LH reciprocating side charger upper a while back.
It's kinda cool, too.
The charging handle screws right to the bolt where the wall thickness of the bolt is greatest (over the firing pin, to get as much thread depth as possible)
and so it takes a wrench to remove the bolt.
I had to rotate the charging handle up 12° to clear the bolt catch, but I removed the "paddle" so no one would be tempted to drop the bolt by slapping it.
The charging handle can whack the $hit out of the shooter's hand.
To drop the bolt you lift it off the catch (pull back a smidge).
I could make it a "bolt gun" by throttling down the gas either by capping the gas port or closing off an adjustable gas block.
Ammo COL limited to AR mag length (~2.25")
Cases that stick in the chamber are gonne take a mighty pull to break loose.
Bolt actions have a little ramp at the top of the bolt throw that starts the extraction with some real mechanical advantage.
ARs have the momentum of the bolt and gas pressure to start the extraction.
I can see a few shooter bopping themselves in the face trying to extract a fired case with their support hand.
I have an idea how to increase extraction force but I'm not just gonna give it away.
It's still kinda cool though.
I made a LH reciprocating side charger upper a while back.
It's kinda cool, too.
The charging handle screws right to the bolt where the wall thickness of the bolt is greatest (over the firing pin, to get as much thread depth as possible)
and so it takes a wrench to remove the bolt.
I had to rotate the charging handle up 12° to clear the bolt catch, but I removed the "paddle" so no one would be tempted to drop the bolt by slapping it.
The charging handle can whack the $hit out of the shooter's hand.
To drop the bolt you lift it off the catch (pull back a smidge).
I could make it a "bolt gun" by throttling down the gas either by capping the gas port or closing off an adjustable gas block.
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Yeah I second scudzuki's point, its not quite how the system was designed. I just don't see how you'd work the bolt with anything close to ease once it gets a little dirty or gritty but maybe POF provided some innovation that the rest of us are unfamiliar with. On top of that my personal experance with POF rifles would shy me away. I spend why too much of my time and money trying to get one of their .308 gas guns to shoot.
But... but... it's so scary looking! It looks just like one of those evil assault rifles that need to be banned because no one should be allowed to own one! It looks so... military-y! Won't someone please think of the children?!?!
I would normally laugh about this, but I am sure some of the features it has will be within a ban bill soon...
Too your point, aren't single action/bolt action AR platform firearms legal even in the United Kingdom. I was under the impression there was some interest in these rifles from UK buyers.
I would normally laugh about this, but I am sure some of the features it has will be within a ban bill soon...
Soon, we'll need a tax stamp for a picatinny rail. Arca rails? Forget it! No on "needs" to adjust their bipod THAT quickly, unless it's for nefarious reasons! Although I imagine the typical anti-gun politician will identify it as a "deadly stabilizer" that allows a shooter to attach one of those chainsaw bayonets
So I've done a fair amount of research on this POF as a possible NJ compliant choice. Mind you , this is all without actual hands on, but they appear to get around the problem of extraction with thier E2 technology. They are gas assist extraction. These two videos show the concept and how it runs at the range....
I'll admit that extration looks pretty effortless. My next question is how is the brass for reloading? Hoping its not as bad as a G3 but maybe still usable like brass out of an OBR?
One thing I forgot to say was to get something like the JP Silent Capture Spring.
At least on the one I shot, if you kept your head down on the stock you could hear the sproing from the spring. The JP SCM does add weight though to it.
My other nit pick with it is the handguard - I like to be able to swap out handguards and especially like longer ones. Not that big of deal if you like what they supply but it would be nice to have options.
One thing that I really did like was even though the ergos are the same as my AR's you don't get the movement from the action cycling so watching your shot hit steel is much easier.
The LuthAR stock they come with is nice but needs some Moleskin on the cheek riser in the winter weather Also a rubber buttpad would be nice.
As far as brass and reloading - We didn't try reloading them and I haven't seen any G3 shot brass in life but they didn't look too bad.
Hope this helps.
As to comparing it to traditional bolt guns -
It's totally different. Because I am used to AR's I think I could cycle the POF faster than my Tikka t3. It's really fast cycling the action because all you have to do is pull it back and the spring shoves it home.
If you get the POF trigger, try and opt for the flat trigger and not the Flat forward trigger or whatever they call it. All the guys at work that tried it didn't like it as much because the area where you put your finger isn't very big.
Another benefit was the ease of right hand users and left hand users - we had one guy and he is a lefty and he had no problem using it as a lefty.
One of the biggest downsides if you could call it that is that it's a manual "semi-auto" and subconsciously it's hard to get used to manually cycling a gas gun after every shot. There was more than once when guys would go for another shot but forgot it's a manual action.
At least on the one I shot, if you kept your head down on the stock you could hear the sproing from the spring. The JP SCM does add weight though to it.
My other nit pick with it is the handguard - I like to be able to swap out handguards and especially like longer ones. Not that big of deal if you like what they supply but it would be nice to have options.
One thing that I really did like was even though the ergos are the same as my AR's you don't get the movement from the action cycling so watching your shot hit steel is much easier.
The LuthAR stock they come with is nice but needs some Moleskin on the cheek riser in the winter weather
Also a rubber buttpad would be nice.As far as brass and reloading - We didn't try reloading them and I haven't seen any G3 shot brass in life but they didn't look too bad.
Hope this helps.
As to comparing it to traditional bolt guns -
It's totally different. Because I am used to AR's I think I could cycle the POF faster than my Tikka t3. It's really fast cycling the action because all you have to do is pull it back and the spring shoves it home.
If you get the POF trigger, try and opt for the flat trigger and not the Flat forward trigger or whatever they call it. All the guys at work that tried it didn't like it as much because the area where you put your finger isn't very big.
Another benefit was the ease of right hand users and left hand users - we had one guy and he is a lefty and he had no problem using it as a lefty.
One of the biggest downsides if you could call it that is that it's a manual "semi-auto" and subconsciously it's hard to get used to manually cycling a gas gun after every shot
. There was more than once when guys would go for another shot but forgot it's a manual action.
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I have owned one pof and will NEVER own anything else from them. Awful product and worse cs. Sold it for a loss some time after the third return from them. RUN.
I got one last Holiday season, and took it along to a one day LR here in fly over country. It shot remarkably well with 175 GMM, with the average group between .6 and .9 MOA (newbie groups on my own). I never had a single issue with extraction or ejection, the E2 system is really slick. As far as reloading goes, the cases ironed out pretty well with the Forster FL sizing die. I did manage in class to get it out to 1k, with a fair bit of holdover, the 18.5" bbl was bringing my MV down closer to 2400, but now that our baby is older and less dependant, I plan on playing around with the 175 SMKs and some 2000MR to see if I can get those numbers back up, and take it out for deer season. If only there was a 20 MOA rail section for it...
Given that I'm still pretty new at this please forgive the clumsy review:
The rifle itself is pretty robust, but it still has some nice frills, like two nylon cap screws in the lower receiver to take up the space and eliminate the AR rattle. I like the LuthAR stock after I got used to it; as was mentioned earlier some moleskin is advisable, or in my case, and old mouse pad (it got a little slick from sweat). The stock itself is adjustable in length of pull and cheek height, and while mine wasn't the smoothest adjusting it stayed where you tightened it down. There isn't much of a recoil pad, about .25" or harder rubber.
It comes with a 18.5 " nitrided 5r barrel and takes AR P-Mags; that said, yes you are pretty much restricted to mag length COAL. Just messing around with a Sinclair chamber length gage I found I had 2.045, so maybe running a longer neck will also give me a touch more oomph. All the controls are ambidextrous, and it made switching sides pretty easy. The trigger... well, what I can say is that it is unique, and that even a newbie can get consistent finger placement... it just feels... weird, ok different, and breaks right around 4.5 pounds. The roller-bearing cam used in the bolt carrier group really makes pulling the bolt smooth, and there is a spring keeping tension on the bolt face so one doesnt have to whip snap it like a can of Skoal to re-install the bolt.
Cleaning and lubing is the same as any other AR platform, POF did recommend SEAL-1, I used the sample, and then have been using Slip 2000 EWL without incident.
I hope this has helped, sorry about it being a bit behind.
Given that I'm still pretty new at this please forgive the clumsy review:
The rifle itself is pretty robust, but it still has some nice frills, like two nylon cap screws in the lower receiver to take up the space and eliminate the AR rattle. I like the LuthAR stock after I got used to it; as was mentioned earlier some moleskin is advisable, or in my case, and old mouse pad (it got a little slick from sweat). The stock itself is adjustable in length of pull and cheek height, and while mine wasn't the smoothest adjusting it stayed where you tightened it down. There isn't much of a recoil pad, about .25" or harder rubber.
It comes with a 18.5 " nitrided 5r barrel and takes AR P-Mags; that said, yes you are pretty much restricted to mag length COAL. Just messing around with a Sinclair chamber length gage I found I had 2.045, so maybe running a longer neck will also give me a touch more oomph. All the controls are ambidextrous, and it made switching sides pretty easy. The trigger... well, what I can say is that it is unique, and that even a newbie can get consistent finger placement... it just feels... weird, ok different, and breaks right around 4.5 pounds. The roller-bearing cam used in the bolt carrier group really makes pulling the bolt smooth, and there is a spring keeping tension on the bolt face so one doesnt have to whip snap it like a can of Skoal to re-install the bolt.
Cleaning and lubing is the same as any other AR platform, POF did recommend SEAL-1, I used the sample, and then have been using Slip 2000 EWL without incident.
I hope this has helped, sorry about it being a bit behind.
I've been pondering getting one of these too. If I did, I was going to send it to GAP and have them put in a 6mm Creedmoor barrel and do whatever other magic they think needed to be done. I mainly wanted to do it, to match my GAP10 G1 gas gun.
I don't get it.
It's like taking the worst of both worlds (bolt and gas guns), and combining them to make one shitty rifle that doesn't really do anything well.
It's like taking the worst of both worlds (bolt and gas guns), and combining them to make one shitty rifle that doesn't really do anything well.
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