I was reading the "dot drill" post and there was a suggestion if you are running a lower power scope to make your poi either 6 o'clock or 12 o'clock of center of cross-hairs. I have a 22 lr bull barrel pistol that has a "pumkin on a post" sight system that is pretty easy to hit what you are aiming at bc your target isn't obstructed by the sights. Is there anyone that does this on their scoped rifles? I carry and shoot a 22lr on my farm for pest control and I am starting to get into some lr with my .308. was going to try it out. Just wondering if this a "normal" suggestion.
Advanced Marksmanship POI 12 o'clock to cross hairs. good idea?
- Thread starter Broken_Reticle
- Start date
Re: POI 12 o'clock to cross hairs. good idea?
all my reticules kill when they are spot on............
all my reticules kill when they are spot on............
Re: POI 12 o'clock to cross hairs. good idea?
is that a mil dot reticle or a solid cross bar. Which the former is what I have on most of my 22.
is that a mil dot reticle or a solid cross bar. Which the former is what I have on most of my 22.
Re: POI 12 o'clock to cross hairs. good idea?
The bullseye pistol 6 o'clock hold (also used by some HP service rifle shooters) is great when every target you shoot is the same size at the same range (or a small number of variations you can keep track of by rote).
The moment you start shooting a bunch of different sized targets or at a bunch of different ranges you will be all over the place.
Ex. You sight in with a 6" target at 300 yards and get so your edge offset hold is dead on (impact 3" from edge POA). Now you go to shoot an 18" target at 300 yards with the same hold and you are 6" from the center (impact 3" from edge POA).
The bullseye pistol 6 o'clock hold (also used by some HP service rifle shooters) is great when every target you shoot is the same size at the same range (or a small number of variations you can keep track of by rote).
The moment you start shooting a bunch of different sized targets or at a bunch of different ranges you will be all over the place.
Ex. You sight in with a 6" target at 300 yards and get so your edge offset hold is dead on (impact 3" from edge POA). Now you go to shoot an 18" target at 300 yards with the same hold and you are 6" from the center (impact 3" from edge POA).
Re: POI 12 o'clock to cross hairs. good idea?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maladat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The bullseye pistol 6 o'clock hold (also used by some HP service rifle shooters) is great when every target you shoot is the same size at the same range (or a small number of variations you can keep track of by rote).
The moment you start shooting a bunch of different sized targets or at a bunch of different ranges you will be all over the place.
Ex. You sight in with a 6" target at 300 yards and get so your edge offset hold is dead on (impact 3" from edge POA). Now you go to shoot an 18" target at 300 yards with the same hold and you are 6" from the center (impact 3" from edge POA).</div></div>
Very well said.
OP,
The 6 o'clock hold is a bullseye competition hold. It is only practical when shooting at decimal bullseyes on a KD range. On these scaled targets, to a degree, a shooter can use this hold and still forecast a zero for other target distances, like is possible when shooting at an unknown diameter target using a center of mass hold.
For me, using the 6 o'clock hold with a line of white appears to get me a very consistent relationship between target and front post sight. I have more confidence in this hold than the center of mass hold, for an understanding for where the barrel is pointed. I've found, 3/4 MOA 20 round grouping is possible for me with the 6 o'clock hold, and 1/2 MOA is not beyond reach.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maladat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The bullseye pistol 6 o'clock hold (also used by some HP service rifle shooters) is great when every target you shoot is the same size at the same range (or a small number of variations you can keep track of by rote).
The moment you start shooting a bunch of different sized targets or at a bunch of different ranges you will be all over the place.
Ex. You sight in with a 6" target at 300 yards and get so your edge offset hold is dead on (impact 3" from edge POA). Now you go to shoot an 18" target at 300 yards with the same hold and you are 6" from the center (impact 3" from edge POA).</div></div>
Very well said.
OP,
The 6 o'clock hold is a bullseye competition hold. It is only practical when shooting at decimal bullseyes on a KD range. On these scaled targets, to a degree, a shooter can use this hold and still forecast a zero for other target distances, like is possible when shooting at an unknown diameter target using a center of mass hold.
For me, using the 6 o'clock hold with a line of white appears to get me a very consistent relationship between target and front post sight. I have more confidence in this hold than the center of mass hold, for an understanding for where the barrel is pointed. I've found, 3/4 MOA 20 round grouping is possible for me with the 6 o'clock hold, and 1/2 MOA is not beyond reach.
Re: POI 12 o'clock to cross hairs. good idea?
Cool thanks for the insight. I just saw someone talking about it in the dot drill topic so I didn't want to hyjack the topic.
But what you said it the same thing they kinda said. When doing the dot drill you are making 12- 15 shots from the same distance so if you sight in on the sight dot @ 6 o'clock impact it could help if you didn't have a high power scope. Which is the boat I am in.
I was just seeing if this was a widely used practice.
Cool thanks for the insight. I just saw someone talking about it in the dot drill topic so I didn't want to hyjack the topic.
But what you said it the same thing they kinda said. When doing the dot drill you are making 12- 15 shots from the same distance so if you sight in on the sight dot @ 6 o'clock impact it could help if you didn't have a high power scope. Which is the boat I am in.
I was just seeing if this was a widely used practice.
Re: POI 12 o'clock to cross hairs. good idea?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broken_Reticle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cool thanks for the insight. I just saw someone talking about it in the dot drill topic so I didn't want to hyjack the topic.
But what you said it the same thing they kinda said. When doing the dot drill you are making 12- 15 shots from the same distance so if you sight in on the sight dot @ 6 o'clock impact it could help if you didn't have a high power scope. Which is the boat I am in.
I was just seeing if this was a widely used practice. </div></div>
I can't see a dot @ 100, so discussing a hold for such using irons is beyond my ability. However, the decimal bullseye for 100 yards, standing and rapid sitting, is about 6 1/2 inches in diameter. That target diameter is adequate for me to grasp the accuracy of any hold I select.
But, here's what I'd do in your shoes. First, I'd not make any rules for myself regarding group shooting. Your experiments just need to be effective, for whatever it is you are seeking to learn.
Now, using a scope, instead of irons, I prefer to begin with a center of mass hold; thereafter, if necessary, I'll favor for wind and maybe for distance. With irons, using a post front sight, proper sight alignment requires the post to be centered in the rear aperture. So, for a 6 o'clock hold, the target is going to appear to be above center. This can be a distraction if the shooter does not remain focused on the front sight. He may tend to center the bullseye and then shoot low, or worse, since without having focus on the front sight he no longer understands where the rifle is pointed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broken_Reticle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cool thanks for the insight. I just saw someone talking about it in the dot drill topic so I didn't want to hyjack the topic.
But what you said it the same thing they kinda said. When doing the dot drill you are making 12- 15 shots from the same distance so if you sight in on the sight dot @ 6 o'clock impact it could help if you didn't have a high power scope. Which is the boat I am in.
I was just seeing if this was a widely used practice. </div></div>
I can't see a dot @ 100, so discussing a hold for such using irons is beyond my ability. However, the decimal bullseye for 100 yards, standing and rapid sitting, is about 6 1/2 inches in diameter. That target diameter is adequate for me to grasp the accuracy of any hold I select.
But, here's what I'd do in your shoes. First, I'd not make any rules for myself regarding group shooting. Your experiments just need to be effective, for whatever it is you are seeking to learn.
Now, using a scope, instead of irons, I prefer to begin with a center of mass hold; thereafter, if necessary, I'll favor for wind and maybe for distance. With irons, using a post front sight, proper sight alignment requires the post to be centered in the rear aperture. So, for a 6 o'clock hold, the target is going to appear to be above center. This can be a distraction if the shooter does not remain focused on the front sight. He may tend to center the bullseye and then shoot low, or worse, since without having focus on the front sight he no longer understands where the rifle is pointed.
Similar threads
