Post death of family member questions

Bantam1

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  • Nov 18, 2008
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    So my father passed away last week. Currently it is just my sister and I left to deal with everything. I know about needing copies of death certificates and those types of things.

    I guess I have questions concerning social security and IRS type issues. the SS website says the funeral home contacts them about the death. I also have heard you have to send back the last payment. So the question I have is does anyone know how they send payments? Based on his bank statements the last payment was received 9/30, and basically always the direct deposit takes place at the end of the month. Would that be considered payment for September? Or is that payment for October?

    We could not find a will or know anything about a will. I know you have to process a tax return for this year with the IRS in '25. What I was not able to find is if there is anything special that needs to be done for them. The IRS website is a joke for that info. Nothing about relatives filing, or anything other that estate executor or similar such titles. The one piece of advice the CFO at my work told me is if he does owe money, do not pay it from my own account. The issue is we locked his bank account but my sister was listed as the beneficiary. I assume she would be able to be in control once that happens and make sure the money is there if needed to pay any tax and send money back to SS.

    Sorry if this post seems a bit rambling, but this is all new to me. There isn't exactly a guide book out there for what and how to do all of these things. Thankfully he did not have much and did not own a home. His only income was SS and retirement. His record keeping was nonexistent so I feel like I am just bumping along until I figure something out. We removed every ounce of paperwork from his apartment and found his phone and wallet. He was not tech savvy despite being an incredibly good prototype machinist for Hughes Aircraft/Raytheon for a long time. No digital accounts, apps, email, passwords, etc. Finding everything has been extremely difficult to say the least.

    My sister is still active Navy and has two young kids on her own due to a recent divorce from a deadbeat dad. I am just trying to remove any extra burden from her for the things were she was not listed as the beneficiary, or at least not sure if she is the one listed yet. This is turning into a total shit show and I just don't really have anyone else to ask but this very public forum. None of my friends have lost their parents and had to deal with this. The rest of my family is essentially non existent or has no experience in this space. I'm at a total loss on some of this trying to figure it out and prevent anyone from coming after myself or my sister for any debts or money we may not know about. So any advice would be greatly appreciated.
     
    Condolences for your loss.

    You don't mention what state of residency your father lived in, but there are different laws for different states, and whether there is a valid will or not.

    Google can be your friend up to a point and will help guide you on the steps/process you should follow, especially if you include the state of residency in your search. IF your father had some wealth, substantial assets, etc., then odds are there is an executed will, but no guarantee.

    Look thru EVERYTHING in the house, every piece of furniture, drawers, boxes, EVERYWHERE, and IN EVERYTHING you find. Look for keys to the car(s), possible lockbox, checkbooks, savings account statements, tax return records (old 1040 returns), periodic statements from banks, or investment firms, etc. Finding a prior year tax return will/should give you an idea of what items you will need to search for, such as savings acct stmts, or financial institutions/stock brokers, etc. The source(s) of all his income should be listed on the tax return just like yours, and go from there.

    IF your father had substantial wealth, you should probably contact a probate attorney in the area and go from there. They will assist you, but will/could charge for their time, if your father had few assets/wealth, then it's possible you can proceed w/o an attorney, but you will still probably have to follow the probate laws for the state he lived in.

    I dealt with estate administration in a previous career, so PM me if you desire. I am NOT an attorney, so I can only make suggestions, etc. on what you can do.

    Again, sorry for your loss, and good luck.
     
    This is a reminder to all you older a-holes! Don't leave people with a mess. If over 50, you should have this all lined out for your family. I had a friend that went through this same thing, but had a business, debts, land, and all kinds of shit. He spent a year dealing with it.

    I was 35 at this time, and ever since then, I keep everything in a fire box and include a copy of all forms, titles, debts, passwords, and everything needed to help people when I die. It takes all of 1-2 hours to initially create, and then 10 minutes to update around my birthday each year.

    Include:
    Possessions
    Debts/Loans
    Wills
    Passwords (You don't have to put the actual password on there, give enough clues they can figure it out)
    Distributions of items you own
    Banks and accounts
    Monthly bill contacts (Water, elec, insurance, gas, phone carrier)
    Copies of titles
    copies of Deeds
    Copies of life insurance policies.
    IRA, 401K, investment names.

    I haven't listed everything here, but I'm sure you get the point. This is probably more critical for a single person like myself, but don't expect your wife knows all this shit.

    I put all this in a fire box hidden in the home and only my brother and niece know where to look. Spend a little time to save your family time and money.
     
    Don't know if it has gotten any better, but you'll probably have to go thru the ordeal of probate of the estate. That can be rather lengthy and beware of lawyers that may try to take advantage. You'll most likely need a lawyer experienced in elder law/probate and do this quickly. You need to avoid paying for expenses out of you own pocket, until probate court/state laws determine how the estate can be settled. Again, all of this will depend on your location. KEEP ALL RECEIPTS.

    Dying intestate really is not an ideal situation for you or you sister. I won't sugar coat any of this for you, as I have seen lawyers consume estates with undue lengthening of the probate process and leaving the heirs with substantially less. Their fees can really add up, especially if there is a family dispute with relatives, so it is imperative to find a good probate attorney. There should be some good websites that will have reviews of attorneys in your area. A cpa may also be able to help.

    Hate to you have to go thru this , especially at this time. Hopefully your state makes this less painful, than the ones that I have lived in.

    For the rest of the Hide members, please make sure your elderly loved ones have a will/trust. It saves family members a lot of grief financially. Neither my father or mother were going to have a will/trust set up..........Depression era thinking and not trusting attorneys. I finally got my father to sit down with his cpa. The cpa was blunt and asked my father who he wanted his estate to go to, the state or his family? Game over. The estate planning made things go very smoothly when the time came.
     
    Sorry I should have mentioned the locations. I am in CA and my sis is on the east coast. My father was in Augusta GA. He was not wealthy at all. I have already been to the funeral home in GA to set up cremation. I do not want to go into details, but he was deceased for many days before they found him. It was post Helene so power and cell service was spotty. We tried to reach him for several days with no luck. A friend of his called for a wellness check because he was bringing him food and water every few days and my dad didn't answer the door. To be clear the hurricane was not the cause of his death. A medical issue he never shared with us took him.

    Going through his small apartment was tough as anyone can imagine after this. I literally took every piece of paperwork out. I went through every nook and cranny and removed everything we could that would aid in trying to find all of the stuff we would need. I also removed any valuables. Actually nothing really of monetary value but important to me because it was my father. Reducing his life to a few bags was tough, but it appeared he had pawned off just about anything he could. The rest was left in place due to an infestation of roaches that got to him and his place. It was really, really bad inside. Lot's of questions about some issues like this but not relevant to what I need to deal with now.

    I googled what I could and found things I did not think about. The biggest questions are still SS and IRS related. It was hard to find clarification or answers to questions. Since it's the Gov I expected nothing to be clearly defined or explained. I still do not have death certificates in hand, so most of this is just trying to get all the info I need and just started crossing them off the list once I have the certificates.
     
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    SS will take the money back from his bank account. Not sure about IRS. I had a CPA doing my parents taxes and had no issues submitting.

    You need to look for an elder care lawyer quickly. If they don't do probate they should know someone but get references!

    I understand that the court/judge can assigns one (in TX) but that is not in your best interest. Judges and their friends (probate lawyers) bleed estates of assets by dragging the process on.

    The advice above about having everything in place can't be overstated. When my parents knew there was issues with my mom, dementia, I found an elder care attorney close that set everything up to avoid probate. She even worked to have the assets protected from Medicaid should that have been needed. Then my dad was diagnosed with cancer but everything was in place. When they both passed it was a very seamless process. Even their house passed on a "Ladybird" deed without any court involvement.
     
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    I just googled GA probate law, and found this. You may have already found it.

    A suggestion for you, if still in the Augusta area, find a small local bank with a trust department. Ask one of the trust officers for a list of attorneys that would be suitable for YOUR situation. Check with whatever bank your father dealt with and go from there. That bank may be able to offer some suggestions, as banks deal with all levels of wealth, and know most attorneys in the area, and who can/will help you.

    You will have to file a FINAL 1040 for your father, so finding prior year tax returns would be a big help, the return for 2024 should be marked as "final" and a death certificate will be filed along with the return. Most tax prep locations can do this, you just need to get/find all of the 1099's, etc. to file an accurate return. Make sure you file a change of address with the USPS so you or your sister will receive all the mail going forward.
     
    We found his '23 1040 so that helps. I need to look into the probate stuff. I was hoping to avoid this since he really didn't have anything outside of his bank account and a retirement package through his old employer. I contacted Raytheon yesterday and they are supposed to send me a letter with all the details and info for that side of things. Not super helpful over the phone but if that is how they do things I will just wait until the letter comes. His package may be setup to avoid any probate if under a certain amount. I guess my grandparents were set up that way and my grandfather also worked for Hughes Aircraft. I would assume they had similar retirement packages.

    We already locked his account with Navy Fed because my sister was the beneficiary on the account. It is temporarily locked until they get the copy of the death certificate. I assume at that point the SS return will go back once I get clarification on how they view the payment schedule and time line. One person says the deposit comes at the end of the month for that month, another says it comes the month prior for the following month. I just want to make sure every legal piece is covered as far as the gov is concerned. I really do not want the Fed coming after myself or my sister if that is possible. I also do not want his money to disappear to the gov either.

    I don't care if I get a dime out of all this except to cover the costs for the cremation and my travel if possible. It was a significant hit to take with last minute everything. Thankfully I am good with my financials so it's not setting me back. Losing a family member sucks, but I would not wish all the post death headache on anyone. Especially learning on the go what needs to be done.
     
    I would contact SSA directly yourself and not rely on any funeral home to do everything correctly. Also, a beneficiary on a retirement, investment or bank account will trump a will. If any vehicles are involved see if there is a TOD, transfer on death, designee listed, otherwise they will all need a death certificate and be re-titled. There is a special return form for the IRS in the case of death. Any decent tax preparer will know how to prepare a final return. SSA will pay a paltry death benefit and if there is a spouse involved they may qualify for survivorship benefits.
     
    When my Mom died, I contacted SSA directly and they had been contacted already. I don't remember who did that, but I thought it was the whoever had signed off on the death certificate, which in my case was the doctor and the County coroner. I thought it was the county coroners office that contacted SSA.

    We, (sister and I) did not have to send the last payment of SS back to them. Not sure where you got that information. The payment is a month late anyway. For example, my retirement date for SS was March. I had to wait a month before the first payment was given to me, April.

    Since the last payment for your Dad was marked as 9/30, that was for the month of August, so as soon as SSA receives the death certificate they will stop the payments. Any payment due on 10/30 would have been for September, which will not be received.

    I was fortunate that Mom had already had an attorney make out her Will and he also took care of filling her tax returns.

    On the last return after her death, even with the same attorney filing the return, the IRS would not process it since the refund was going to me/sister. IRS marked it as identity theft, so I had to go in person to the local IRS office to resolve that. So watch out for that.

    Sorry for your loss.
     
    Your father's estate is considered a "taxable" entity, so any refund due him personally for 2024 tax year would/should come back and be part of his estate. The estate would then distribute these remaining funds.

    A lot of "what do you do" depends upon:
    IF he had a valid will, does GA law require it be probated due to small size or not, or

    Does GA law allow the bene's to proceed without being appointed Personal Representative (or equivalent) by the probate court under GA law.

    IF your father did not have a valid will, then GA law will probably govern how the estate is handled/settled/distributed.

    Any expenses incurred for settling the estate, (phone, light, cable bills, etc) would be paid from your fathers monies where ever they may be located (the CU acct mentioned) , etc.

    I'm not familiar with GA law, so the above is based on experiences in FL and TN, and there are subtle differences between state probate laws.
     
    @Bantam1

    The number I found helpful for SSA benefits was SSA office in Alabama. 1-800-254-9489

    The Treasury ACH he got at the beginning of October is for October.

    My wife gets SSA benefits in an ACH to her account and that is how I know about it.
     
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    Sorry for your loss. I’d consider consulting a probate attorney to answer all your questions. Here’s a few (4.5 and above ratings) I found:

    Burroughs Elijah Attorneys
    633 Furys Ferry Rd, Augusta, GA 30907

    Stephen H. Hagler, LLC
    4070 Columbia Rd Suite 200, Martinez, GA 30907

    Trotter Jones, LLP
    3615 Walton Way Ext, Augusta, GA 30909

    Think Different Legal Group
    3549 Wheeler Rd, Augusta, GA 30909

    Rhodes Law Firm, P.C.
    3938 Washington Rd, Martinez, GA 30907

    Average consultation is between $200 and $400, I think. You should get enough information to do everything by yourself. If not, hiring one shouldn’t cost you too much based on the information you have provided. I hope everything works out for you guys. May God be with you.
     
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    Sorry for you loss. My wife lost both parents this year. Social Security pays you for the previous month, so Sept 30th was for surviving September. You will get a pro-rated check for October and maybe the $265 bucks for the funeral.

    You need about 10 copies of the death certificate eventually. Did he have a pension? They need notified. They will pro-rate as well.

    Did he have life insurance? some jobs allow retirees to take their insurance when they retire. My 92 yo father-in-law had $20K from when he retired 30 years ago, they sent a package when he died and paid promptly.

    Did he have anyone on his bank accounts? If yes, those people get to take over the account without a death cert, same with house if anyone else is on the deed. The mortgage still needs to be paid off. At some point, the executor or trustee needs to update the trust, usually with the family lawyer and dispose of the property or change the deed.

    Did he have investments or IRA accounts? Same thing, find his broker and let them know. They need a death certificate and can eventually move things to whomever gets them.

    Credit card debt? Same thing, notify them and cancel the cards, get a closing balance and pay them off if possible. If not possible, cancel the cards and let them fight with the estate.

    Car or truck payments? Same thing, notify them, death certs maybe and either pay them off or take them over.

    You need to save enough of the estate to pay taxes and bills so do not give it all away or dispose of it. Make sure you have enough money to cover his last taxes and bills.

    We kept 2 acres for parking our RV and sold the house her dad built with his own hands to a local kid who is an electrician. It was modestly priced and needs updated but built solid as a tank. The town got a good resident and the place will get new life for a young family hopefully.

    Some banks offer insurance for customers free with accounts, my dad had $15K and signed up for it. They paid it no problem. So there might be money for the estate in unlikely places. Do not forget to look. Her dad had a couple of grand in the freezer and a small coin collection. He also had a couple of signed and numbered prints he was awarded for various community services he performed. Nothing to get rich over but they are worth saving.

    Having a modest estate can make it easier. Your CFO is not joking, BTW. His bills are not yours and you do not have to pay them out of your pocket. Did he have storage locker? When you can check his credit cards, check for recurring bills and make sure to stop those as well.

    Sorry this happened, it is a bit of work. Good luck, hope this helps.
     
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    I am going to wait for the certificates to get here and the "letter" from his employer pension/retirement department. I guess they also offered life insurance through that program, but I have to wait and see what they send me.

    The only easy part has been dealing with Navy Fed. The girl that helped out my sister and I was awesome. She did give my sister a booklet with a lot of info. I was not able to read through it but she took some pics and sent them to me yesterday. A lot of what I asked was in that booklet. It helps a lot.

    Thanks to everyone here that has given me info and links. I'll be spending a lot of time this week going through it all.
     
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    From the IRS website, this is what you want, to start. Publications are their way of breaking shit down for the average person

    Publication 559 is designed to help those in charge (personal representatives) of the property (estate) of an individual who has died (decedent). It shows them how to complete and file federal income tax returns and explains their responsibility to pay any taxes due on behalf of the decedent.


    And of course, you can always hire someone.
     
    My dad just passed away 2 weeks ago, I feel your pain, my condolences. My stepmother is the one that is left to manage his affairs after his passing fortunately, and unfortunately. I hate that she has to deal with this AND losing her husband. She's had a lot of support along the way to help out. I'm gonna give it a little bit of time before I discuss having a attorney set up everything else to make settling the estate when she passes, far easier. I want to make sure she has time to mourne before I start hassling her about things. She's been my stepmom for 34 years, I call her mom. She's 85, and every couple that stays together for life, will eventually deal with a spouse passing, just wish that it was a far smoother process for the surviving spouse. My dad dealt with it when his first wife passed, now my stepmom (for clarification) is dealing with it.

    I'm sorry that you have to go through all this. I think there is a lot of really great advice in this thread to take into consideration, i'm taking notes myself, and I will continue to read this thread as it progresses.

    Branden
     
    Last night my mother passed at 86 at home. Even though she's had lots of medical issues it was unexpected.Dad passed 4 years ago.
    Mom had her funeral already paid for and planned including the dress she wanted to be buried in. She was one of 7, outlived all her siblings and their spouses along with a lot of my cousins.
    There is only my brother and I. The will is very simple and clear on her wishes and the split. In the event of her passing everything had been planned and set up. We know where and what everything is (finances, savings, retirement accounts ) and planning was done with aid of an attorney as to make everything as smooth as possible. However, as I sit here this morning ( I'm executor, my brother agreed to this as he lives out of state) I feel lost and don't know what to do first. Do have a meeting at the funeral home this morning to start things.
    So, I'm glad I saw this thread, there seems to be some good info that will be helpful.
     
    Yes it certainly sucks and being blindsided with a lot of this doesn't make it any easier. I'll share what I learn along the way to try and help anyone else that has similar questions or problems. I have not had proper time to mourn either. I had to get back to work because I have 17 people relying on me in two different states. One of which just lost his grandfather this week.

    Just a shitty couple of weeks for some of us.
     
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    So sorry for your loss.

    @Ronws is absolutely correct about the SS payment. When the payment arrives depends on your birthday. If a birthday is between the 1st and 10th of the month then the payment is on the 1st. If between the 11th and 20th then payment is sometime during the 2d week of the month. If birthday is between 21st and 31st then payment is in the third week. Mine is in this third group and my payments are on the 3d Wednesday of the month.
     
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    As executor or next of kin, you can run a LifeLock credit report on your dad with his SSAN, and it will show any and all deposit accounts with banks, etc. Or his bank can run it for you.

    Pretty handy tool.

    Your sister should have done that during the divorce proceedings to the deadbeat. I did that on my divorce and found $$$$$ squirreled away in an account she created while I was deployed to Iraq. She was pretty upset that I found it, which was worth more to me than the money itself.
     
    This is a reminder to all you older a-holes!

    The kid gets it all.

    @Bantam1 went through this not long ago without a will and still going through part of it.

    Even without a will anything like a bank account or an insurance policy with named beneficiaries will get dispersed quickly and without a lot of drama.

    There's a lot of good info in this thread already. Yes, death certificates, you need a lot of them but they don't all need to be "originals", a lot of places will take a xerox.

    Some light reading, the Elder Law site has a number of decent articles and, surprisingly, the IRS site has a number of useful resources and answers. Sample links from both below.

    A quick link from AARP that does a dashboard view of inheritance and estate taxes by state, it's from 2022 but these things don't change quickly. Also a Forbes link that goes into more detail about limits, etc., if it matters.

    Without a will a decent probate lawyer will help cut through all the court red tape for a flat rate of two to three grand and an accountant who is familiar with estate and probate tax laws is also helpful. Not entirely cheap but worth it IMO.



     
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    So sorry for your loss.

    @Ronws is absolutely correct about the SS payment. When the payment arrives depends on your birthday. If a birthday is between the 1st and 10th of the month then the payment is on the 1st. If between the 11th and 20th then payment is sometime during the 2d week of the month. If birthday is between 21st and 31st then payment is in the third week. Mine is in this third group and my payments are on the 3d Wednesday of the month.
    My dads birthday is on the 29th and the SS payments came on the 30th every month. SO maybe that is not 100% accurate? I do not doubt you, but it is not correct for his payment schedule and birthdate.
     
    My dads birthday is on the 29th and the SS payments came on the 30th every month. SO maybe that is not 100% accurate? I do not doubt you, but it is not correct for his payment schedule and birthdate.

    As with everything .gov it's easy peasy simple and infallible.

    In general, here’s how we assign payment dates:

    • If you were born on the 1st through the 10th of the month, you’ll be paid on the second Wednesday of the month.
    • If you were born on the 11th through the 20th of the month, you’ll be paid on the third Wednesday of the month.
    • If you were born after the 20th of the month, you’ll be paid on the fourth Wednesday of the month.
    There are exceptions. For example, children and spouses who receive benefits based on someone else’s work record will be paid on the same day as the primary beneficiary.

    For others, we may issue your payments on the 3rd of each month. Among other reasons, we do this if:

    • You filed for benefits before May 1, 1997.
    • You also receive a Supplemental Security Income (SSI) payment.
    • Your Medicare premiums are paid for by the state where you live.
    • You live in a foreign country.
    Individuals who receive SSI payments due to disability, age, or blindness receive those payments on the 1st of each month.

    If your payment date falls on a federal holiday or weekend, you can expect to receive that month’s payment on the weekday immediately prior.
     
    My wife's birthday is on the 21st of her birth month but her ACH lands between the first and third of the month.

    Not asking for specific private information just a yea or nay.

    Do any of the following apply?

    • She filed for benefits before May 1, 1997.
    • She also receives a Supplemental Security Income (SSI) payment.
    • Her Medicare premiums are paid for by the state where she lives.
    • She lives in a foreign country.
    Individuals who receive SSI payments due to disability, age, or blindness receive those payments on the 1st of each month.
     
    Not asking for specific private information just a yea or nay.

    Do any of the following apply?
    In November of 2021. This was 2 months after her 66th birthday to receive her maximum benefit. Medicare B is deducted from her SSA benefits. For about a month or so, it was supposedly paid by Texas and then back to her paying for it.

    From that ACH, she only gets to keep $75. That is because she is in a skilled nursing facility on Medicaid and her financial responsibility to the facility is whatever her SSA ACH is minus 75 dollars.

    I have to keep her bank acount under 2,000 dollars at all times. So, I I write a check to myself and deposit it (I have her durable PoA and medical PoA.) Then, I pay the facility from my account.

    Medicaid is a state thing. In some states, you stay certified. In Texas, you have to recertify every year. Last year, it cost me $750 to our attorney to handle the recert because they know what they are doing and this is what they do every day.

    Medicaid decides what her responsibility is and the facility sends me the bill.

    And it's all cocked up. October's bill was more than the entire amount of her SSA before Medicare B deduction.

    Then again, there are stories ofd big foul-ups in government jobs. Probably DEI hires creating havoc. So, the finance lady at the facility said to just keep paying what the actual responsibility is, which is her ACH minus 75 dollars.

    And she needs to be there for constant medical monitoring. A few weeks ago, she was in the hall talking with others and started having the preliminary symptoms of another seizure (on neurologist diagnosed her with demylination of the nerve cells in the brain) and so they were able to give her a second dose of Kepra and take blood. And she was a quart low, as it were. Thing is, it has happened before. When that happened, her night time dose of Kepra changed to 1,000 mg. Now, she gets 1,000 mg morning and evening.
     
    Also keep an eye on his mailbox. As his bills, statements etc, come in, that will let you know what you need to take care of. Death certificates and a testamentary letter will help you clear stuff up. This may take a few months, so don't worry about being in a hurry to clear it all up. I am sorry for your loss. Last year we had two family members and a very close friend pass over three weeks. It was a tough time. Hang in there. About the time you think it is all wrapped up, a loose end will pop up, but it will all work out.