powder bar

[PowderMeasure]

Powder bar has been very inconsistant. Using a digital scale, desired load was 42.5. Kept getting b/w 42.2 to 43.9 using a Dillon 550B w/ Dillon Dies for a .30. I decided enough was enough so I changed out the whole powder system and was more consistant. Stayed w/in 42.5 to 43.2 or so. Should I expect it to be more accurate or know I will have to go to a different measuring technique to be exact? Also, as a bonus question: what does 308 Win "R P" headstamp stand for??? Thanks in advance!!

 

[AZIROC]

Re: powder bar

Ill take a wild guess and say you are using Vargant. When I used it, I got #'s all over the place like you. I tried different powders and ended up with xbr 8208. its s stick powder, just not as bad (for measuring) as Vargant. also, THIS is worth its weight in gold.

 

[ksthomas]

Re: powder bar

You didn't mention what powder you were using here, and that's most likely a big part of the problem. Most extruded tubular powders (such as the IMR line and many of the Hodgdon powders) don't play well with the Dillon powder measures. Couple different ways to go here. One, the extruded tubular powder will usually handle a wider range of charge weight variation without becoming a problem. In other words, a few tenths one way or the other from your target amount probably won't make any difference in the load itself. Even a half grain off, depending on the size of the case, may not be a problem. If it is, then you may want to consider using one of the better powder measures (I like Redding's BR-3 and BR-30) on the Dillon in lieu of the Dillon bar type measure. This should tighten up your charge weight variation with extruded tubular powders and give you better ammo. The other approach is to switch to ball powders or very short cut extruded tubulars like H322. I think this invites some other problems, as well as imposing some limitations I don't like for my own reloading, but it is an option.

Almost forgot; the R-P is a holdover from Remington-Peters. It's Remington brass.

 

[PowderMeasure]

Re: powder bar

THanks for your reply. Your close. been using TAC. Love its performance. So basically I would now need to find a powder that measures better in my set up and one that works for my shooting? Or use yours......

 

[psubond]

Re: powder bar

not sure how much time you are willing to spend measuring charges but personally i set my measure a bit low and throw the charges then trickle to get it exactly where i want it. not the fastest way but it is very precise.


also since you are using an electronic scale that might be part of the problem (just sayin)

 

[PowderMeasure]

Re: powder bar

Thanks for your reply. I am using and I apologize for leaving that out, TAC powder Ramshot powders are double-based, spherical-shaped. Have liked the performance but am up for using something different if need be........

 

[PowderMeasure]

Re: powder bar

Curious, what part of an electronic scale would be a problem?

 

[PowderMeasure]

Re: powder bar

Have you used that "R P" brass? Currently loading different brass to see which one gives me best results. Got alot of bran new never crimped LC that weighes the same as FC but heard FC does hold the pressure very well?..

 

[ksthomas]

Re: powder bar

I've used Remington brass in ARs and bolt guns both, and frankly am not impressed with it at all. Ditto for the FC, though I think it's a bit more dimensionally uniform that the R-P stuff. It's also butter-soft and won't get you more than a few loadings before you start leaking stuff out the primer pocket (not a good thing). Try Lake City (LC) if you're looking for decent quality cases at bargain prices. Winchester is also good, and our own Lapua Match is top shelf. Just depends what you want to spend or what sort of quality your shooting requires.

I don't generally use double based powders if I can help it as they tend to be more temperature sensitive. If you do use them, leave some wiggle room, just in case those rounds get used in hot weather. It'll save you some trouble down the road, I assure you.

 

[psubond]

Re: powder bar

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: powdermeasure</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Curious, what part of an electronic scale would be a problem? </div></div>

from my understanding many of the cheaper electronic scales have drift and can have different readings if you don't have the pan on the exact same spot on the scale every time. i could be wrong though.

 

[Gene Poole]

Re: powder bar

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Psubond</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: powdermeasure</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Curious, what part of an electronic scale would be a problem? </div></div>

from my understanding many of the cheaper electronic scales have drift and can have different readings if you don't have the pan on the exact same spot on the scale every time. i could be wrong though. </div></div>

Electronic balances are a precision electromechanical instrument and need to be treated as such. We had an entire lab session dedicated to proper use of the electronic balance in General Chem, then again in Organic Chem, then another for the super accurate balances used in Quant and P-Chem. Dust and debris, air currents, support, static electricity, etc. all have to be taken into account. The manufacturers would like you to believe you can just throw this thing on your bench like a clock radio, and be done with it but it ain't so.

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: powder bar

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gene Poole</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Psubond</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: powdermeasure</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Curious, what part of an electronic scale would be a problem? </div></div>

from my understanding many of the cheaper electronic scales have drift and can have different readings if you don't have the pan on the exact same spot on the scale every time. i could be wrong though. </div></div>

Electronic balances are a precision electromechanical instrument and need to be treated as such. We had an entire lab session dedicated to proper use of the electronic balance in General Chem, then again in Organic Chem, then another for the super accurate balances used in Quant and P-Chem. Dust and debris, air currents, support, static electricity, etc. all have to be taken into account. The manufacturers would like you to believe you can just throw this thing on your bench like a clock radio, and be done with it but it ain't so. </div></div>

All of this is true if you're trying to weigh down to the level of a molecule or two but for a single grain of Varget all this is immaterial.

Most reloading electronic scales have a lot of plastic components and static electricity can build up. Not enough to "zap the cat" but enough to cause some drift. A simple wipe down with a dryer sheet will do wonders. Ditto a spray down with some good old fashioned electronics anti static spray.

Once done, these scales perform quite well and well within the requirements of the majority of reloaders.

I have an RCBS scale integrated into the Chargemaster and a Dillon D=Terminator. The Dillon is unique as it has a "wind shield" that also is grounded to reduce the static buildup some of which is actually caused by the falling powder.

Some of the trend towards "Lab Grade" scales among many reloaders is akin to trying to pick fly crap out of ground pepper.

 

[PowderMeasure]

Re: powder bar

Exactly. thats why i got a PACT. Money every time! try one out sometime and you will see what I mean! Thanks for all your input. THis thread has been very helpful!

 

[dvdt]

Re: powder bar

I have buddies that load TAC in the standard Dillon measure. They swear to me it runs very well and measures (meters) like water.

Are you jerking the machine or running the measure down very low ? (powder packing differently)

Another trick is to polish the ramp a bit.

My $.02

 

[PowderMeasure]

Re: powder bar

I figured it out. I was having gravity settling issues. Now that I have figured it out, I am w/in .1 grain. TAC has been great to work with. I really appreciate everyones input!

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: powder bar

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: powdermeasure</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I figured it out. I was having gravity settling issues. Now that I have figured it out, I am w/in .1 grain. TAC has been great to work with. I really appreciate everyones input! </div></div>

Build yourself a baffle for the powder measure. Google "Uncle Nicks Powder Baffle Templates" for some neat templates.

As for material, cut one from the side of an 8# powder jug. To bend just run a hot soldering iron along the fold point, careful to not burn through.

 

[pmclaine]

Re: powder bar

I tried modding my Dillon powder measure by polishing all the parts as was recommended for pulling rifle/stick powder. I was getting a lot of inconsistency and my rounds didnt perform much better than the milsurp I was using. That was my experience on my first batch of rounds ever made, I could have other errors in process that have contributed but right now the powder drops are my target for finger pointing.

For this go round I'm pulling my rounds after the powder drop and trickling to final weight. I'm loading 30-06 and if I pull 30 rounds at a whack I dont find this too tedious to get good powder drop consistency.

If I needed 200 plus rounds per session forget it I'd go with another method.

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: powder bar

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pmclaine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I tried modding my Dillon powder measure by polishing all the parts as was recommended for pulling rifle/stick powder. I was getting a lot of inconsistency and my rounds didnt perform much better than the milsurp I was using. That was my experience on my first batch of rounds ever made, I could have other errors in process that have contributed but right now the powder drops are my target for finger pointing.

For this go round I'm pulling my rounds after the powder drop and trickling to final weight. I'm loading 30-06 and if I pull 30 rounds at a whack I dont find this too tedious to get good powder drop consistency.

If I needed 200 plus rounds per session forget it I'd go with another method. </div></div>

I load .308 on my XL 650 when I need more than 50 at a time. I just replaced the Dillon Powder Measure with a Lee Universal Rifle Powder die and a Lee Funnel that I cut a small semi-circle out of so it clears the primer magazine. I can consistently load 100 rounds per hour using this method. I take advantage of the case feeder, auto priming, just drop the powder from my Chargemaster while the handle is down and the case at the top of the powder die. Raise handle, seat bullet, lower handle, pour powder from dispenser and then raise handle.

Easy process as long as one doesn't forget and pours powder while the ram is down

 

[pmclaine]

Re: powder bar

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadshot2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pmclaine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I tried modding my Dillon powder measure by polishing all the parts as was recommended for pulling rifle/stick powder. I was getting a lot of inconsistency and my rounds didnt perform much better than the milsurp I was using. That was my experience on my first batch of rounds ever made, I could have other errors in process that have contributed but right now the powder drops are my target for finger pointing.

For this go round I'm pulling my rounds after the powder drop and trickling to final weight. I'm loading 30-06 and if I pull 30 rounds at a whack I dont find this too tedious to get good powder drop consistency.

If I needed 200 plus rounds per session forget it I'd go with another method. </div></div>

I load .308 on my XL 650 when I need more than 50 at a time. I just replaced the Dillon Powder Measure with a Lee Universal Rifle Powder die and a Lee Funnel that I cut a small semi-circle out of so it clears the primer magazine. I can consistently load 100 rounds per hour using this method. I take advantage of the case feeder, auto priming, just drop the powder from my Chargemaster while the handle is down and the case at the top of the powder die. Raise handle, seat bullet, lower handle, pour powder from dispenser and then raise handle.

Easy process as long as one doesn't forget and pours powder while the ram is down

</div></div>

Just an update;

Shot my first 30-06 loads yesterday using IMR 4895 trickled to the desired grain amount. I think I did 43 grns initial than 46, 46.5, 47. 47.5, 48. I used Hornady M1 garand match ammo as a control. I fired 10 rounds of each type. Nice thing about IMR 4895 is that there is much less "leakage" of sticks from the Dillon powder drop than I get with RL19, IMR4064 or Varget. It sucks seeing those little powder sticks all over the back of the machine after loading.

Unlike with my first 30-06 reloads made purely from the powder drop I could clearly see a tight group and recognize the impact shift with the increase in powder.

Trickling is working for me and will be suitable for the quanitity of ammo I shoot at a session/season.

I actually like the relaxed tempo of rifle loading. With pistol its "Must produce more ammo!, Must produce more ammo!". With rifle the kids go to bed and I go to the bench, in about an hour starting from scratch to completely cleaning the work area I'll have 30 rounds that to me seem like precious little jewels.

 

[PowderMeasure]

Re: powder bar

All, this has truly been the best site to be a part of as the information gained just out of one post has been most helpful and I have enjoyed learning about everyones "method" etc. I have produced many many 5.56, and 45 loads and have settled down quite a bit. As PM said it best, loading after the little ones go to bed is my way of relaxing loading 1 load at a time very methodically!