Powder measure for bulk/precision 223

[SanPatHogger]

Right now I am using a Lee perfect powder measure. It works fine and I usually throw slightly light and then trickle up. I can throw 3 perfect charges, then a low and then a high. I put in a baffle that a buddy of mine 3D printed for me but it almost seems to have made it worse.
But now I am going to be loading a few thousand 223/556 and I will also be stretching the AR out further than I have before. Looking for a powder measure that throws the most consistant charges.
A buddy of mine said to get a Redding. I was also thinking about getting an electronic measure but then I read about how many of them go bad really quick, I want something that will last. Right now I am running N-140 powder but maybe going to a spherical powder would be better and I would not need another measure?
Any suggestions?

 

[Mike Casselton]

Go spherical on the powder and use a measure.
I have multiple RCBS, a Redding and a Harrell's.
All of them drop ball powders very accurately. No need to drop low and trickle up.

The key is to work on your technique.

 

[RegionRat]

Since your thread is a little quiet, I will add a few thoughts.

Yes, a spherical will always yield better thrower results than an extruded. However, unless your rig likes that ball powder it is cold comfort.

The Lee Perfect outperforms almost every one of the throwers out there, including the expensive ones. So, don't expect better thrower performance based on spending factors more on them compared to that cheap Lee.

If you could have a Prometheus, that would end this thread but those are typically not within the budget of casual folks.

A good alternative was the AutoTrickler V3 with the Ingenuity Precision Trickler, but those are hard to find since the current model is a V4.
I also have a V4 that I upgraded with the Ingenuity Precision Trickler, but I still prefer the V3+IP combination for pure speed and performance.

N-140 is pretty good stuff, and depending on your current load performance, you may have to work hard to match it with a spherical powder, but it isn't impossible.

I have several CFE223 loads that come so close to the performance of extruded ones like N-140 or Varget, that I bulk load them on the Dillon with the Dillon thrower. When you have to buckle down and shoot your best to see a slight difference in target performance, while the work to load is a huge difference, then it is a no-brainer. But, you will have to pay attention to temperature conditions.

Some of this difference comes from the additives in the CFE223 used for copper fouling reduction, plus the fact that the ball powders are never as temperature-flat as the extruded ones.

You see the issues pretty well. If your time is spent on the loading bench and you are not happy with the shooting, then those savings are cold comfort. On the other hand, if the difference is splitting hairs between best and still very good, then it should be worth a test of the ball powder before you spend even more on equipment and process changes.

 

[smoothy8500]

stretching the AR out further than I have before
I can throw 3 perfect charges, then a low and then a high.
I am running N-140 powder but maybe going to a spherical powder would be better and I would not need another measure?

I'll piggyback on what @RegionRat brings up, coming from a NRA Highpower perspective. We all use progressive presses with some powder meter/dropper, even for the 600yd ammo. Some of us use spherical, others use short kernel stick powder. N140 is a fairly short kernel.

When you say "high and low", how much? I would imagine you are within +/- 0.1gr 98% of the time. I would suggest you test your load at 600yd, and do a comparison of 10 rounds +.1 gr, and 10 rounds -.1grain. You will see almost minimal difference between the three groups in size and POI.

 

[simonp]

I'll piggyback on what @RegionRat brings up, coming from a NRA Highpower perspective. We all use progressive presses with some powder meter/dropper, even for the 600yd ammo. Some of us use spherical, others use short kernel stick powder. N140 is a fairly short kernel.

When you say "high and low", how much? I would imagine you are within +/- 0.1gr 98% of the time. I would suggest you test your load at 600yd, and do a comparison of 10 rounds +.1 gr, and 10 rounds -.1grain. You will see almost minimal difference between the three groups in size and POI.

Curious to know what sort of dropper folks are using with a Dillon 650.. like to be able to load 77 SMK's in bulk on the 650 with a high degree of accuracy being maintained, be a big time saver. TIA

 

[SanPatHogger]

I'll piggyback on what @RegionRat brings up, coming from a NRA Highpower perspective. We all use progressive presses with some powder meter/dropper, even for the 600yd ammo. Some of us use spherical, others use short kernel stick powder. N140 is a fairly short kernel.

When you say "high and low", how much? I would imagine you are within +/- 0.1gr 98% of the time. I would suggest you test your load at 600yd, and do a comparison of 10 rounds +.1 gr, and 10 rounds -.1grain. You will see almost minimal difference between the three groups in size and POI.

I want to shoot a fairly big 3 gun match North east of Austin and they go out to almost 600 yards.
I use a RCBS 505. I have trickled a perfect 25.5 and then moved the .1 part of the scale up one and down one and then see where the needle shifts. It's to the fat edge of the needle both ways. I would say most throws are within 0.1 of perfect. But then there is one that is low, and I would estimate 0.3 and then high by 0.3.
I guess that could be a good test. I'll load 10, then load 10 at .3 high and 10 at .3 low and shoot them all at the same distance at the same time. If it's a big difference I'll have to spend more time keeping them tighter. If they all shoot similar I'll just throw.

 

[SanPatHogger]

Since your thread is a little quiet, I will add a few thoughts.

Yes, a spherical will always yield better thrower results than an extruded. However, unless your rig likes that ball powder it is cold comfort.

The Lee Perfect outperforms almost every one of the throwers out there, including the expensive ones. So, don't expect better thrower performance based on spending factors more on them compared to that cheap Lee.

If you could have a Prometheus, that would end this thread but those are typically not within the budget of casual folks.

A good alternative was the AutoTrickler V3 with the Ingenuity Precision Trickler, but those are hard to find since the current model is a V4.
I also have a V4 that I upgraded with the Ingenuity Precision Trickler, but I still prefer the V3+IP combination for pure speed and performance.

N-140 is pretty good stuff, and depending on your current load performance, you may have to work hard to match it with a spherical powder, but it isn't impossible.

I have several CFE223 loads that come so close to the performance of extruded ones like N-140 or Varget, that I bulk load them on the Dillon with the Dillon thrower. When you have to buckle down and shoot your best to see a slight difference in target performance, while the work to load is a huge difference, then it is a no-brainer. But, you will have to pay attention to temperature conditions.

Some of this difference comes from the additives in the CFE223 used for copper fouling reduction, plus the fact that the ball powders are never as temperature-flat as the extruded ones.

You see the issues pretty well. If your time is spent on the loading bench and you are not happy with the shooting, then those savings are cold comfort. On the other hand, if the difference is splitting hairs between best and still very good, then it should be worth a test of the ball powder before you spend even more on equipment and process changes.

Good information here. Thank you

 

[sinister]

The Lee Perfect outperforms almost every one of the throwers out there, including the expensive ones.

This right here.

Many years ago several Precision Shooting writers experimented and verified the Lee is just as precise-consistent (and sometimes better) as many other brands and models when it comes to extruded powders.

It doesn't have to be expensive to work well.

I use a Redding BR-3, my brother a Harrel's. The shooter still has to point the rifle and break the shot.