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Powder Splash With Auto Trickler & Area 419 Components

TF160 Guy

TF160 Guy

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Full Member
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    • Oct 22, 2010
    595
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    Southern Virginia on the Lake
    #1
    Set up. Auto Trickler V3 with Area 419 Auto Trickler Straw and powder cup.

    Issue. While throwing 22 or 43 grains of Varget I get kernal splash. Loading a 50 round evolution will produce about 25 kernals on the tray and scale base.

    I would appreciate suggestions on how to element the splash?

    1617360374134.png
     
    #3
    Glad to see this as I'm in the waiting line for one. I wonder if the depression in the pan may have something to do with it as there is the extra drop distance. Perhaps adding something to jack up the cup would eliminate the problem and then tare out the scale to take that into account?
     
    #4
    I have the same setup, but don't have the Area419 scale tray shown in your photo. I also have "kernel splash" with 8208 and H4350 powder. I just assumed it was because the Area 419 powder cup is shorter than the one that comes with the Autotrickler. I've added a spacer to the bottom of the powder cup to see if that will eliminate the splash by bringing it up closer to the powder throw straw. Haven't had time to test it yet, but will soon.
     
    #8
    I stopped using the AT glass cup because it was somehow causing the scale weight readout to fluctuate. I don't have that problem with the A419 aluminum cup.

    I tested out the A419 cup today with a .305" thick spacer. With the spacer I had no spilled kernels. I removed the spacer and it only took 3 powder throws to get spilled kernels.

    Cup and spacer disassembled:
    disassembled.jpg


    Assembled:
    assembled.jpg


    Clearance in AT without spacer:
    nospacer.jpg


    Clearance with spacer:
    withspacer.jpg
     
    • Like
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    #9
    Does the billet platen that 419 makes to use in conjunction elevate the cup? It appears to do so and this may be the intended set up.
     
    #12
    I bought the v2 and then the area 419 accessories and then upgraded to the V3. For some reason that I don’t recall, i am using the auto trickler V3 plastic funnel with the area 419 cup and centering plate. I do not have splash. I load about 40gr of varget and 49 of h4350 as well as many others. I dont recall having a problem with splash with the A419 straw. As I recall there was a plate with a crest shaped opening that was inserted in the funnel/straw to slow down the drop and reduce splash. I’d show a picture but who knows where I have that piece stored!
    . 073FFD5D-E947-4D0C-A3A0-7894D0E5E9ED.jpeg
     
    #13
    I have the powder landing on the side of the cup and seems to work ok. Still keep an eye on splash but loaded 150 rds last night and maybe had a few kernels of 4350 on the tray. When I was using the v2 the tray was covered.
     
    #14
    TF160 Guy said:
    Set up. Auto Trickler V3 with Area 419 Auto Trickler Straw and powder cup.

    Issue. While throwing 22 or 43 grains of Varget I get kernal splash. Loading a 50 round evolution will produce about 25 kernals on the tray and scale base.

    I would appreciate suggestions on how to element the splash?

    View attachment 7595861
    Click to expand...
    Inside the Area419 funnel below the thrower, there is a baffle. It is a half moon shaped piece of aluminium. It is there to regulate how the powder falls through the two levels in the funnel just before it exits. I was having the same issues as well as inconsistent throws. I took it apart and saw that it had moved and was allowing the powder to almost free flow through the funnel.

    I put it back to its horizontal position and my problem disappeared. But when throwing extruded powders, theres really no way of assuring a splash free throw. Ball powders act differently and don’t “splash” quite like the “stick” powders.

    The worst I’ve seen are the extruded powders; Varget, IMR4198, H4064. The best ones that I’ve tried are the ball powders; Titegroup, H110 and the like.

    One of the innovations I’ve seen and tried is a 3D printed cup that has a small rise in the center of the floor in the cup. This V-shaped “rise” causes the powder to not bounce. And to move in a circular motion as it hits this little “mountain”.. It’s not perfect, but much better then a flat floor cup.

    Otherwise, I just clean up the powder that has not made its way into the cup after I’m finished.
     
    #15
    6MT said:
    Inside the Area419 funnel below the thrower, there is a baffle. It is a half moon shaped piece of aluminium. It is there to regulate how the powder falls through the two levels in the funnel just before it exits. I was having the same issues as well as inconsistent throws. I took it apart and saw that it had moved and was allowing the powder to almost free flow through the funnel.
    Click to expand...
    I have the newer straw that is designed without the baffle. The offset of the straw is what was to have cured the splash. I was able to cure it by adding a spacer as suggested by HemiPowrd.
     
    #16
    TF160 Guy said:
    I have the newer straw that is designed without the baffle. The offset of the straw is what was to have cured the splash. I was able to cure it by adding a spacer as suggested by HemiPowrd.
    Click to expand...
    I also have the offset straw. It has a baffle.

    B8-AAD746-3-F5-F-4-AFE-9-FDE-B61-F01-A8-D2-BF.jpg


    I'm also using the Area419 pan. It seems to be a higher unit then the OEM scale pan. Looking at mine and the one in a post above, it looks like the combo of both Area419 pieces gives a taller height. I would guess that there's no need for a spacer for the Area419 cup, if you're also using the Area419 pan. YMMV.
     
    Last edited:
    #20
    I guess I’ve been lucky with my set up but I rarely have any powder jumping out of the cup. The only powder that spills out onto the pan is when I accidentally hit the trickler with the cup. But like I said, rarely
     
    #23
    Steel head said:
    Once I found where the V3 scoop and trickler tube like to be I haven’t had any problems with errant kernels.
    Click to expand...
    Can you send a pic of your current setup, I just put all of my parts together and getting all sorts of messed up stuff. The scale is reading the pan/cup at different weights consistently, and I don't have the same adjustment in the trickler which is causing significant over throws.
     
    #24
    Are you talking about powder splashing out of the cup? Or, spraying out of the tube intermittently? I've had both.

    Make sure you have the baffle properly in the powder drop. I've had to adjust it a couple times to get it right. Make sure the top is flat on the scale. I once had it slightly high (legs were uneven on the scale) and got powder jumping from the cup.

    The spraying out of the trickler was resolved by Adam in the last electronic rev. He changed the way the trickler motor moved. I just upgraded the electronics and that problem disappeared.

    Darkhorse, for powder overthrows start by adjusting the tilt of the trickler with the lever on the back of the scale in the center. Most of the adjustment for overthrowing is made with the trickler tilt. The lever on the back shouldn't need much adjustment either way from center if the tilt is spot on.
     
    #25
    parshal said:
    Are you talking about powder splashing out of the cup? Or, spraying out of the tube intermittently? I've had both.

    Make sure you have the baffle properly in the powder drop. I've had to adjust it a couple times to get it right. Make sure the top is flat on the scale. I once had it slightly high (legs were uneven on the scale) and got powder jumping from the cup.

    The spraying out of the trickler was resolved by Adam in the last electronic rev. He changed the way the trickler motor moved. I just upgraded the electronics and that problem disappeared.

    Darkhorse, for powder overthrows start by adjusting the tilt of the trickler with the lever on the back of the scale in the center. Most of the adjustment for overthrowing is made with the trickler tilt. The lever on the back shouldn't need much adjustment either way from center if the tilt is spot on.
    Click to expand...
    Thanks, I basically started over with it and seems to be consistent now. I wanted to keep my front shield closed (ac causes issues with the scale sensitivity when it is on) and pull the cup from the right side. I'm still gonna tinker a bit with it, but haven't found a way w/o the cup hitting the trickler tube when I take it out. Also gonna try cutting the front shield in half like others have done, and then the cut on the right side for the trickler.
     
    #26
    HemiPowrd said:
    I believe it does, but many using it have complained that it causes the scale readout to fluctuate.
    Click to expand...
    Exact!! I thought my autotrickler was dying but I see it's common. I bought the cup and the plate of the scale from Area419 and now the weight indications of the scale fluctuate. With the glass one and its original plate I didn't do it. Does anyone know why it is? Thank you very much.
     
    #27
    JuantoPRS,

    I had the opposite problem, my original glass cup would drift like crazy. My issue was due to static charge caused by loading in a dry climate with a bit of wind outside. With a metal cup the problem went away at least mostly.

    Now that I knew static charge was my issue, I cut a piece of stainless and grounded it to an outlet, sat the scale on the stainless sheet and I ground my cup to it (the reason I was grounding the cup was in case I picked up any charge), I also got an ionizer in hopes of reducing the charge in the room. All of this has helped me a lot....though I am not sure what helped most.

    I am still planning one running some sort of grounded surface inside the riser box....I think I will ground the autotrickler as well. But at this point it is more or less manageable.

    I have also noticed RL50 is way charged right out of the jug.....it clings to everything. So i wonder if I poured it through a metal funnel as I loaded the hopper if that would also help. There is probably someone here that knows more about that than I do....
     
    #28
    Anti static washing machine lint sheets. Saw that trick. While ago.

    Pour a cup of powder at a time onto the lint sheet, wipe around, pour it from the lint sheet into whatever you are using.
     
    #31
    I am trying this out to reduce splash. I haven't run it yet, but I'm priming now so I will report back when I test it. Using 4350 in a few so, I will see how it goes with that, but the real test is ball powder.
     

    Attachments

    • 20221105_160456.jpg
      20221105_160456.jpg
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    #32
    BuildingConceptsllc said:
    I am trying this out to reduce splash. I haven't run it yet, but I'm priming now so I will report back when I test it. Using 4350 in a few so, I will see how it goes with that, but the real test is ball powder.
    Click to expand...
    I'm thinking about trying that spacer on the bottom of the 419 cup, every now and then I get some splash, but not as bad now that I've went back to Adam's funnel instead of the 419 funnel.. I found out what was Making my scale go bananas after I would complete a drop. I had a ground wire attached to the scale, sent it to Adam and he went through it and said that was the culprit. I have it back now and it's doing great with the IP, now I just need the rest of the disks. Ugh..
     
    #33
    ICU22250 said:
    I'm thinking about trying that spacer on the bottom of the 419 cup, every now and then I get some splash, but not as bad now that I've went back to Adam's funnel instead of the 419 funnel.. I found out what was Making my scale go bananas after I would complete a drop. I had a ground wire attached to the scale, sent it to Adam and he went through it and said that was the culprit. I have it back now and it's doing great with the IP, now I just need the rest of the disks. Ugh..
    Click to expand...
    Yeah I love the IP. It works so perfectly and never over throws. None of them are super easy to change powders , especially with ball but it doesn't take that long to clean up either and the AT hopper is the worst part.

    I figures someone who prints 3d would print some spouts to go on the AT that would illuminate the splash issue but no one has yet that I know of, so I cut down a piece of 308 brass to fit so it drops as close as possible while still not hitting when I slide the cup in and out. We will see how it goes. I'm about to do 6.5 Staball (I had 4350 on my brain but that's my 6.5cm not 6cm, which I am about to load for, if I can get enough time after kids are in bed and before I pass out....)
     
    #34
    BuildingConceptsllc said:
    Yeah I love the IP. It works so perfectly and never over throws. None of them are super easy to change powders , especially with ball but it doesn't take that long to clean up either and the AT hopper is the worst part.

    I figures someone who prints 3d would print some spouts to go on the AT that would illuminate the splash issue but no one has yet that I know of, so I cut down a piece of 308 brass to fit so it drops as close as possible while still not hitting when I slide the cup in and out. We will see how it goes. I'm about to do 6.5 Staball (I had 4350 on my brain but that's my 6.5cm not 6cm, which I am about to load for, if I can get enough time after kids are in bed and before I pass out....)
    Click to expand...
    Good luck with that, as I get older, I struggle to stay awake longer than my daughter. 😆
     
    #36
    BuildingConceptsllc said:
    I am trying this out to reduce splash. I haven't run it yet, but I'm priming now so I will report back when I test it. Using 4350 in a few so, I will see how it goes with that, but the real test is ball powder.
    Click to expand...
    Well it's a huge improvement. Not perfect but it cut down on the ball powder that got on my 419 plate that thr cup sits on quote a bit. In 100 rounds thrown I had to wipe a ball or two off maybe 4 or 5 times, compared to nearly every time and definitely every other time without it.

    Still got a decent amount of ball powder that landed outside of the 419 plate but even that was definitely cut in half and maybe a little more.

    I think with a 4350 type powder it would cut it out almost completely, but ball powder is so bouncy there may not be a way to completely stop it. I'm happy with the big improvement though.
     
    #39
    Measuring cups are the way
    image.jpg


    I still have a few bounce out but not neeeeeearly as many and they rarely land on the metal but instead land in the gutter, probably because only those with enough energy to escape are going to go far enough to clear it entirely.


    Overall the area 419 accessories dont improve the experience for me but I paid for them so Im going to use them damnit.
    The biggest difference was in the 419 funnel and removing the baffle inside of it, it would just catch kernals and then when the cup was removed and the scale got jostled it would drip a handful of them out. A taller cup to deal with the increased powder velocity has been what made it functional for me.
     
    Last edited:
    #40
    spife7980 said:
    Measuring cups are the way
    View attachment 7994142

    I still have a few bounce out but not neeeeeearly as many and they rarely land on the metal but instead land in the gutter, probably because only those with enough energy to escape are going to go far enough to clear it entirely.


    Overall the area 419 accessories dont improve the experience for me but I paid for them so Im going to use them damnit.
    The biggest difference was in the 419 funnel and removing the baffle inside of it, it would just catch kernals and then when the cup was removed and the scale got jostled it would drip a handful of them out. A taller cup to deal with the increased powder velocity has been what made it functional for me.
    Click to expand...

    Now that's a good idea.... i guess you bend it a little to make it pour well enough to go in the funnel without issue? I'm going to see if I have the reg straw thingy too, though with my .308 brass extension, I think I have about the same results as you do judging from your pic. It was a big difference maker overall but especially what landed on the measuring plate.
     
    #41
    BuildingConceptsllc said:
    Now that's a good idea.... i guess you bend it a little to make it pour well enough to go in the funnel without issue? I'm going to see if I have the reg straw thingy too, though with my .308 brass extension, I think I have about the same results as you do judging from your pic. It was a big difference maker overall but especially what landed on the measuring plate.
    Click to expand...
    Yeah, if you look closely you can see that I squeezed it and the left side is a bit pointier than the right. It didn’t take much of a squeeze at all to make it pour well.
    image.jpg
     
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    #42
    spife7980 said:
    Yeah, if you look closely you can see that I squeezed it and the left side is a bit pointier than the right. It didn’t take much of a squeeze at all to make it pour well.
    View attachment 7994545
    Click to expand...
    Yeah I'm definitely going to do that but I will have to ditch my 419 trey to do it and then I wouldn't have a stop.....????? Thats what I like most about the 419 trey, I can go fast sliding the cup back in place and it stops when I get to the right spot. My stock trey won't have anything to do that. Did you put something on it or is the cup just so much bigger it's a non issue?
     
    #45
    BuildingConceptsllc said:
    I am trying this out to reduce splash. I haven't run it yet, but I'm priming now so I will report back when I test it. Using 4350 in a few so, I will see how it goes with that, but the real test is ball powder.
    Click to expand...
    This worked pretty dang well. It's not completely eliminated, but it's almost. With ball powder, I get a few on the 419 pan maybe 2 or 3 times when loading 100 rounds or more, which is like a 90% or more improvement. If it's not ball powder it's pretty much 100% no problems.

    I have it cut to where I slide the cup under it and it doesn't ever touch but just so. It works great and it took about 1 min to do with a Dremel
     
    #47
    TF160 Guy said:
    Set up. Auto Trickler V3 with Area 419 Auto Trickler Straw and powder cup.

    Issue. While throwing 22 or 43 grains of Varget I get kernal splash. Loading a 50 round evolution will produce about 25 kernals on the tray and scale base.

    I would appreciate suggestions on how to element the splash?

    View attachment 7595861
    Click to expand...
    I tried the same set up with my V3. I found getting rid of the Area419 straw fixed any bouncing kernels of extruded powder. The cup stayed. I love their cup.

    Opps...very old thread. Sorry.
     
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