Practice Ammo?

[bmicek]

Was curious what everyone else did as far as practice ammo goes. I should mention, I am speaking in terms of NRL22 or other similar shooting series for rimfire. I have had good luck with SK Rifle Match but after buying a new Vudoo, I will be doing ammo testing again. Part of me says feed the monster what it deserves and find a lot of Lapua it likes and just practice with something like SK Standard+. Was curious what others out there did.

Does anyone run into issues running a higher quality ammo in matches, and then practicing with something cheaper? Didn't know if there was any POI changes switching between ammo or if POI is always returned with firing a few rounds to "season" the barrel again before the match.

 

[502Chevelle]

My Savage shoots the SK standard plus pretty good, but I’m getting ready to start shooting some CCI SV, Because it shoots about the same and is better on cost. May keep shooting the SK in matches, but it will depend on how the CCI shoots. Just running a handful through my rifle, it shot pretty good, but I didn’t have enough for a true test. My buddy and I were side by side practicing, and we just swapped some ammo to see how it did. Was odd because his RPRR did not like the SK at all.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I shoot sk standard plus exclusively in my vudoo. Match, practice, doesn’t matter. It does great at 100 and in, and out to 300 I’ve had pretty good success.

I may consider center-x for 200+, but have been shooting centerfire too much to work on that part of .22.

 

[justin amateur]

Assuming rimfire ammunition quality is a constant is a problem.
What produces decent results from one box, shows flyers the next.
The MV on the box is only a calculated average and is no guarantee of actual numbers.
Shoot crappy ammo, expect crappy results.
Practice with substandard ammo, how will you determine if it was you
or if the quality of the cartridges is the cause of the spread?
Practice with the best you can afford.
At 25 yards most any brand will do.
At 50 yards, the upper grades are going to be satisfactory.
At 100 yards and beyond, wind and MV spread are not your friends, use match grade.
At 200 yards only the high end ammo is consistent enough to maintain a 5 inch or less spread.
Why do I make those statements?
I spend 95% of my shooting time on the 200 yard range.
I learned the hard way.

 

[Ravenworks]

Posting an FYI, Wolf 22LR is made by Lapua.
Not that it's any cheaper.

 

[justin amateur]

Wolf MT and ME changed manufacturer late 2018.
Now made in England by Eley.
Tested at 200 yards, decent midgrade ammo.

 

[quickdraw]

Over the past few years since getting into shooting various 22 matches such as the NRL22 I have gone back and forth with various rifles and ammo. The short story is that 22 rifles and ammo in general can be very frustrating when trying to develop consistent results. Along the line I purchased a Vudoo rifle to solve the inconsistency with the rifle issue. After getting a consistent and dependable rifle I started testing and better understanding the inconsistent ammo issue.

Without going down the rabbit hole I'll just say that my decisions came down to only shooting amp from the same company/components. Same lube and same lead. I had good results in all of my rifles with SK Rifle Match and the Vudoo shot everything well so if I was going to shoot a less expensive practice round I would have chosen SK Standard Plus.

SK and Lapua both come off of the same line. I would imagine that they both use the same bullets and lube because of that. They all look the same and they both use the same cases. My understanding of what goes into the various boxes is based on the consistency of results when they batch test. Top performing batches go into the higher priced boxes, and they work their way down. In this instance you do pay for performance. In my testing I've found that with my rifles the slight increase in performance from Lapua Center X to Midas Plus or X-Act was not enough bang for the buck.

I tested and punched a supply of a well performing lot of Center X and use that for everything now, practice and matches. I was using Eley Tenex for ELR22 shooting out past 200 yards previously. I found the lot of ELEY I had shot better at ELR distances that my previous lot of Center X. I will need to retest the new lot of Center X now. I'm a believer in the 1 rifle 1 bullet philosophy.

 

[quickdraw]

I can't imagine how much time and money was wasted chasing my butt buying and testing various makes, types and lots of ammo over the past few years. Same thing with building and modifying multiple rifles. There is a learning curve like anything else but my experience now says that buying my Vudoo and testing Lapua Center X was and is worth every penny spent. I just load shoot and smile now.

 

[Rebels010]

I would try some CCI SV for practice. It usually falls in the perfect sweet spot of acceptable accuracy at a low cost. Worth trying a brick to see if it fills the role of practice round for you.

 

[bmicek]

I would try some CCI SV for practice. It ussually falls in the perfect sweet spot of acceptable accuracy at a low cost. Worth trying a brick to see if it fills the role of practice round for you.

I’ve been shooting a bunch of it behind my house while waiting for it to warm up to begin bullet testing. It shoots good at 25 yards. Ideally I’d like to shoot something similar to my match ammo though for practice. Since the CCI SV isn’t coated with a similar lube as typical match ammo, I don’t know if I like the idea of using it as my practice ammo.

 

[45cal4life]

In the back yard at 70 yards, CCI SV. If I go the the range, Center-X regardless of the distance

 

[4darkseid]

Federal Champion has always done well for me at a good price point. Aguila Rifle Match shoots better but costs a little more. My rifle also seems to group well with S&B 40 grain subsonics. I need to try the Wolf yet.

I definitely get better results with "standard" or subsonic velocity ammo than high velocity. Anything "auto" has typically not done as well in a bolt action for me, especially at 100 yards.

 

[MarkCZ]

Was curious what everyone else did as far as practice ammo goes. I should mention, I am speaking in terms of NRL22 or other similar shooting series for rimfire. I have had good luck with SK Rifle Match but after buying a new Vudoo, I will be doing ammo testing again. Part of me says feed the monster what it deserves and find a lot of Lapua it likes and just practice with something like SK Standard+. Was curious what others out there did.

Does anyone run into issues running a higher quality ammo in matches, and then practicing with something cheaper? Didn't know if there was any POI changes switching between ammo or if POI is always returned with firing a few rounds to "season" the barrel again before the match.

My Kidd Supergrade, CZ 455, and my T1X likes Wolf MT & ME, SK Std+ & SK Rifle match, Eley Target & Club. I shoot the lower price ammo for practice and the upper price for matches. The lot of Wolf Match Extra is shooting than anything I have tried. Wolf and SK is shooting just as well Center X, Eley match, and Tennex out to 150yds. in my guns. I shoot one match out to 200yds. At 200yds Center X, Club and Target have a lot of vertical. I need to do some testing with the Wolf and SK ammo at 200yds. I need to get some lots of Eley Tennex, Edge, Match and some of the higher grade ammo from Laupa to test at 200 yds.
I think as long as you keep with same brand of ammo you would be ok shooting lower price ammo for practice, then higher price for matches.

Mark

 

[flatland1]

I've seen a few lots of SK Std+ that shot quite a bit better than the average lots of it. One in particular shot better out of a CLE dedicated 22RF AR upper at 200yds than SK Rifle Match out of both of my 40X/XB repeaters. Wish I'd have recognized how well that particular lot did in the CLE's Douglas bbl, but I was just shooting up odds & ends/left-overs from doing some testing in the bolt rifles, and by the time I got around to trying it in the AR upper, it'd been several months since I'd bought it. Didn't figure there'd be any more of that specific lot anywhere to be found, so didn't even call around to ask. I've also shot some Std+ that 'splattered' instead of grouping at 50yds, but those are about as rare as the 'wunder-lot' that the AR upper liked so well. All things considered, it's worth testing several lots of it & buying in quantity if you find a really good lot. However, a good lot of SK Rifle Match will still generally out-shoot Std+ in the custom bbls on my bolt repeaters, just as a good lot of Lapua Polar Biathlon will out-shoot a good lot of Rifle Match out beyond 150-250yds.

I'd love to find a really good lot of Rifle Match that was great from 50-300yds, but think that's about like looking for a unicorn. That's the main reason I'm more-or-less willing to spend the $$$ on a higher grade of ammo for those few 200-300yd shots our match director generally incorporates into one or two stages each month - I still shoot SK Rifle Match out to 150yds, then switch to Center-X, Polar Biathlon, or Eley Match for the longer distances.

 

[bmicek]

I've seen a few lots of SK Std+ that shot quite a bit better than the average lots of it. One in particular shot better out of a CLE dedicated 22RF AR upper at 200yds than SK Rifle Match out of both of my 40X/XB repeaters. Wish I'd have recognized how well that particular lot did in the CLE's Douglas bbl, but I was just shooting up odds & ends/left-overs from doing some testing in the bolt rifles, and by the time I got around to trying it in the AR upper, it'd been several months since I'd bought it. Didn't figure there'd be any more of that specific lot anywhere to be found, so didn't even call around to ask. I've also shot some Std+ that 'splattered' instead of grouping at 50yds, but those are about as rare as the 'wunder-lot' that the AR upper liked so well. All things considered, it's worth testing several lots of it & buying in quantity if you find a really good lot. However, a good lot of SK Rifle Match will still generally out-shoot Std+ in the custom bbls on my bolt repeaters, just as a good lot of Lapua Polar Biathlon will out-shoot a good lot of Rifle Match out beyond 150-250yds.

I'd love to find a really good lot of Rifle Match that was great from 50-300yds, but think that's about like looking for a unicorn. That's the main reason I'm more-or-less willing to spend the $$$ on a higher grade of ammo for those few 200-300yd shots our match director generally incorporates into one or two stages each month - I still shoot SK Rifle Match out to 150yds, then switch to Center-X, Polar Biathlon, or Eley Match for the longer distances.

Have you noticed any POI changes when switching between ammo’s of different brands? Didn’t know if you’ve experienced a POI shift maybe due to brand A using a different bullet lube than brand B. And when switching back to your match ammo there is a small POI shift despite “seasoning” the barrel again for the match ammo.

My biggest dilemma is whether I want to risk any POI shift using a higher quality match ammo and a cheaper practice ammo, or to just buy a slew of for example SK Rifle Match or SK Pistol Match as my all around ammo, practice and match (assuming I find a lot my rifle likes).

 

[justin amateur]

I find poi shift in different boxes from the same brick.
Why? MV differences. I use a chronograph every time I shoot rimfire.
MV is not a constant, not even in the same box, let alone brick of ammunition.
It shifts up and down depending on primer amounts, brass dimensions, bullet seating, bullet weight/shape.
Variations in assembly may be small, but they do occur on the production machines.
Tolerance stacking will cause ups and downs in mv's when fired.
A change in mv causes a change in muzzle exit timing and how barrel harmonics launch the projectile.

 

[flatland1]

There's bound to be some POI shift when changing between SK/Lapua & Lapua Polar Biathlon; Polar uses a different lube formulated to work in colder temps. Same goes for switching between SK/Lapua & Eley. I've seen some shift while shooting SK, Lapua, Federal, & Eley on steel at 210yds recently, because I'm not taking time to clean or even to shoot a few fouling shots while chronographing, and don't intend to do so, at least not in the cold conditions we've had all of February. I'll take some notes on shift while testing, and work at it a few times to see if it's consistent. You don't get the opportunity to fire foulers during a match, so if you're going to switch ammo during, you'd better at least have an idea how to compensate for it if necessary. It's been so frikkin' long since I shot a .22RF in warm conditions, I don't remember the last time. But I'd be willing to bet that you're going to see different degrees of shift in different conditions.

 

[quickdraw]

I’ve been shooting a bunch of it behind my house while waiting for it to warm up to begin bullet testing. It shoots good at 25 yards. Ideally I’d like to shoot something similar to my match ammo though for practice. Since the CCI SV isn’t coated with a similar lube as typical match ammo, I don’t know if I like the idea of using it as my practice ammo.

In the world of 22lr everything changes something. My philosophy is to minimize change as much as possible. While you can't eliminate all of the variables I try to eliminate as many as possible.

Ammo is one of the big variables. Lube is part of those variables. Type and brand of ammo is another and lot of ammo is another.

The rifle is another area of several potential variables. Environment is another area where you need to learn how to fight your way to hits. I can't control the environment but I can try to minimize the amount of variables in the ammo and rifle. IMHO

 

[bmicek]

In the world of 22lr everything changes something. My philosophy is to minimize change as much as possible. While you can't eliminate all of the variables I try to eliminate as many as possible.

Ammo is one of the big variables. Lube is part of those variables. Type and brand of ammo is another and lot of ammo is another.

The rifle is another area of several potential variables. Environment is another area where you need to learn how to fight your way to hits. I can't control the environment but I can try to minimize the amount of variables in the ammo and rifle. IMHO

Totally agree with that. I’m starting to lean towards just picking an ammo it shoots well, and buying a slew of it. Maybe see if I can find something in the SK Rifle Match price range and if I don’t find something, then move up to Lapua Center-X and look for a lot there. Appreciate all the help on this fellas.

 

[VP47PPC]

My KIDD rifle with the 20 inch straight taper SS barrel had POI shift with Eley Club, SK Rifle Match and FED GM target. The Eley I picked up at 6 - 7 dollars a box on sale and the SK RM was a bunch purchased at 6.81 so I just shoot what the rifle likes. These here are ten shot groups and Eley was more consistent with less flyers. Under each target is 4 X 5 shot groups of each ammo. The SK had some of the better 5 shot groups but had to throw a flyer now and then.

 

[quickdraw]

Before I stepped up to the Center X I was a big fan of SK Rifle Match. I tfound it to be the most consistent of the mid priced match ammo. I shot several different lots of it what I had shot well for me. One of the main reasons that I stepped up to Center X was that I was able to go to the test center and test various lots of it to know that I was getting good performing ammo for the next several years.

 

[beetroot]

As others have said CCI Std velocity is good for training.
My 22s like SK Match so I use that for competitions, shooting for groups or long range shooting.

Shorter range and positional shooting practice I just use the CCI, not as accurate as the SK but more than accurate enough and much the same POI.

 

[Harv24]

I shoot the SK plus and Eley Target... seems to be very consistent with my rifle.

 

[Erno86]

CCI SV works okay for me....but I don't like the 50 round paper box that it comes in. Mainly because that if you put any loose rounds back in the box, the paper flap has a tendency to open up (when shaken) in my ammo case --- Spilling rounds all over.

 

[straightshooter1]

CCI SV works okay for me....but I don't like the 50 round paper box that it comes in. Mainly because that if you put any loose rounds back in the box, the paper flap has a tendency to open up (when shaken) in my ammo case --- Spilling rounds all over.

Likewise, I don't care for the paper box. So I will usually transfer my CCI SV's to an empty 100 round plastic box that I've saved for this purpose and do it a whole box at a time. It only takes a minute the putting the plastic boxes ammo in my range bag when I head out.

 

[bmicek]

CCI SV works okay for me....but I don't like the 50 round paper box that it comes in. Mainly because that if you put any loose rounds back in the box, the paper flap has a tendency to open up (when shaken) in my ammo case --- Spilling rounds all over.

Also annoying you can’t pull the plastic insert of rounds out and leave it out without setting them nose first into wherever you are shooting.

 

[chevy_man]

CCI SV. I use it in indoor matches since they're only 50', and all practice since it's generally 100 yards.
Gophers get mini-mags simply because they get a good thump. I get 1.25"-1.5" 100 yard groups with the mini-mags, .75"-1" with SV.
SK pistol match shot great for me. However now that my LGS quit carrying SK and I need to order 3k+ to make it feasible online I'm not sure what I'll do there.

I've tried many different match ammos and I'm not sure if I'm lucky or cursed as I can't find one to shoot much better than the SV in my rifle. Certainly not at the cost, as I'm shooting .22 for fun in club matches. 2-5x the cost per brick puts a bit of damper on the fun aspect.

I have noticed I need 10-20 shots between brands to settle the group sizes.

 

[bmicek]

CCI SV. I use it in indoor matches since they're only 50', and all practice since it's generally 100 yards.
Gophers get mini-mags simply because they get a good thump. I get 1.25"-1.5" 100 yard groups with the mini-mags, .75"-1" with SV.
SK pistol match shot great for me. However now that my LGS quit carrying SK and I need to order 3k+ to make it feasible online I'm not sure what I'll do there.

I've tried many different match ammos and I'm not sure if I'm lucky or cursed as I can't find one to shoot much better than the SV in my rifle. Certainly not at the cost, as I'm shooting .22 for fun in club matches. 2-5x the cost per brick puts a bit of damper on the fun aspect.

I have noticed I need 10-20 shots between brands to settle the group sizes.

@chevy_man Brownell’s is having a good sale on CCI SV if you didn’t see it.

 

[BlastersAreCool]

My KIDD rifle with the 20 inch straight taper SS barrel had POI shift with Eley Club, SK Rifle Match and FED GM target. The Eley I picked up at 6 - 7 dollars a box on sale and the SK RM was a bunch purchased at 6.81 so I just shoot what the rifle likes. These here are ten shot groups and Eley was more consistent with less flyers. Under each target is 4 X 5 shot groups of each ammo. The SK had some of the better 5 shot groups but had to throw a flyer now and then.
View attachment 7034827View attachment 7034829View attachment 7034830

Please annotate range to target when you post this stuff! I am one to appreciate good feedback w/pics certainly. That said what was your range to tgt? Downrange and atmospheric conditions? I have trouble personally understanding what was meant by "10@X" and 9@Y" with my feedback being with respect.

 

[VP47PPC]

trouble personally understanding what was meant by "10@X" and 9@Y" with my feedback being with respect.

10 @ .55 would annotate 10 shots for a group of .55 inches etc
the shooting was done at 50 yards I apologize about leaving that out.
70 deg, 20% humidity, 1800 feet DA and wind 3-7 mph swirling from left and right and straight on.

Under each target was 4 more targets with 5 shot groups. Eley had two 5 shot groups at .5ish one at .6ish and one at .7ish
SK had some good groups one at .4 and one at .36 (inches) then a nice group with a flyer to go .6 and another with a flyer to go .8
FED ammo would like to be good, three rounds touching then two wide to make for so so groups.

 

[BlastersAreCool]

10 @ .55 would annotate 10 shots for a group of .55 inches etc
the shooting was done at 50 yards I apologize about leaving that out.
70 deg, 20% humidity, 1800 feet DA and wind 3-7 mph swirling from left and right and straight on.

Under each target was 4 more targets with 5 shot groups. Eley had two 5 shot groups at .5ish one at .6ish and one at .7ish
SK had some good groups one at .4 and one at .36 (inches) then a nice group with a flyer to go .6 and another with a flyer to go .8
FED ammo would like to be good, three rounds touching then two wide to make for so so groups.

ahhh got it. I like that you toss the flier out of each 10 round group....is it is producing solid performance 90% of the time so-to-speak Ide consider it consistent enough (as far as 22lr goes) Thanks for the update and sharing