PRS Talk Practice/training stuffs you found especially useful

[DangerRanger]

I had a great time at my first match recently. Im happy with my score and only 0’d the one I forgot to reset my turret which is a boneheaded mistake but one more easily fixed. My rifle had a failure to extract/eject that caused a debacle I had to clean out on every stage. It has since been fixed, so I’m excited to have an extra 30 seconds on every stage.

Aside from those obvious issues, I know wind got me on a few, so that’s something I need to improve on, which I guess is just picking shittier days to go to the range.

My range has a few barricades I’ve been practicing on, is it recommended to simply slow practice barricades to get used to them or should I be using a timer at this point? I tried to ignore the timer for my match and just slow and steady, so of course I timed out on pretty much every stage but I think it snagged me a few hits from concentrating.

This is a rambling mess so tldr if you could go back and were just starting prs what would you be practicing and how?

 

[b6graham]

practice building positions and moving between positions. and then breaking clean shots

build/find something similar to a barricade and dryfire at home and also at the range while your barrel cools

the riflekraft tool is great and you only need 100y

rifle balance is important here too

 

[DangerRanger]

practice building positions and moving between positions. and then breaking clean shots

build/find something similar to a barricade and dryfire at home and also at the range while your barrel cools

the riflekraft tool is great and you only need 100y

rifle balance is important here too

Are there recommended variations for body positions on different obstacles especially for different sized people or is this really a get out there and figure it out type situation.

Ie. Is two knees down always more stable than one knee, etc

Yes I notice my rifle was rear heavy and I’m going to work to improve that.

 

[Rob01]

Yup practice moving from position to position and resetting your position as quickly as possible. You can do this at any range with only 100 yards. Just use paper targets and make them smaller so when you take the shot you need to be stable. Practicing moving from position to position will help your shooting. Also work down a pre stage checklist in your head so you know you have proper data on rifle, equipment needed for stage, scope caps up, magazine loaded and with you etc. All that willhelp you go into the stage more relaxed and not in a tizzy from running around getting stuff.

And positions can be body dependent. I see some younger, thinner shooters get into positions that I can't but it comes down to being stable in whatever position you find. That is what is found in practice also. Try different ones and see what works for you.

Where did you shoot your match?

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Rifle kraft drill. Youtube it and go to riflekraft.com

 

[Yoteski]

As stated above, utilize the Kraft drill, it will tell you what you need to work on. Ex. for me, kneeling is my worst position. One knee down, two knees down, doesn't matter. My knees aren't very flexible anymore and the tightness causes my NPA to suffer. The discomfort also adds to my wobble zone and I'm sure in some manner affects my trigger press. It's my worst position and so I practice it the most. I also know if I can build a different position at a match, I'm better standing and waaay better off my ass. It will help you look at shooting positions differently.

 

[DangerRanger]

Yup practice moving from position to position and resetting your position as quickly as possible. You can do this at any range with only 100 yards. Just use paper targets and make them smaller so when you take the shot you need to be stable. Practicing moving from position to position will help your shooting. Also work down a pre stage checklist in your head so you know you have proper data on rifle, equipment needed for stage, scope caps up, magazine loaded and with you etc. All that willhelp you go into the stage more relaxed and not in a tizzy from running around getting stuff.

And positions can be body dependent. I see some younger, thinner shooters get into positions that I can't but it comes down to being stable in whatever position you find. That is what is found in practice also. Try different ones and see what works for you.

Where did you shoot your match?

Thank you for the help.

Coleman’s creek, I practice at woodys

 

[b6graham]

Are there recommended variations for body positions on different obstacles especially for different sized people or is this really a get out there and figure it out type situation.

Ie. Is two knees down always more stable than one knee, etc

Yes I notice my rifle was rear heavy and I’m going to work to improve that.

my 22 is a little rear heavy so i almost always run my bipod (atlas super cal) hanging on the front to balance it out

i do a lot of 2 knee and also 1 knee. just depends and sometimes it's randoms.

shoot a bunch of riflekraft drills. i do it much more with a 22 (or even a 223) than a centerfire
note on riflekraft. i normally do stand, 1 knee (middle height), 2 knee(either high or low), prone instead of sit as i rarely sit on a stage

 

[Rob01]

Thank you for the help.

Coleman’s creek, I practice at woodys

I saw Coleman's was doing matches now. I might try and make the August one.

I shoot at Woody's too. Using the barricade and the barrels and the wood he has on the left side of the firing line you can get a lot of good practice. You can use any of the yard lines but the small target at the 400 would be a good one to practice on. Make hits on it consistantly and you will be doing well. Also add a timer into your training as it will help you learn what 90 seconds feels like and what you can do in that time.

 

[DangerRanger]

I saw Coleman's was doing matches now. I might try and make the August one.

I shoot at Woody's too. Using the barricade and the barrels and the wood he has on the left side of the firing line you can get a lot of good practice. You can use any of the yard lines but the small target at the 400 would be a good one to practice on. Make hits on it consistantly and you will be doing well. Also add a timer into your training as it will help you learn what 90 seconds feels like and what you can do in that time.

Thank you, so far I’ve been on the right barricade shooting at the 400 line just like you mention. I’ve noticed improvement but I need to work on the others I think.

i thought Coleman’s was great, but I obviously have nothing to compare it to lol

 

[DangerRanger]

Checking out rifle Kraft now thanks guys super helpful.

 

[Rob01]

Thank you, so far I’ve been on the right barricade shooting at the 400 line just like you mention. I’ve noticed improvement but I need to work on the others I think.

i thought Coleman’s was great, but I obviously have nothing to compare it to lol

Keep an eye on Frontline Defense too. He had a match there last weekend. Close to the same drive as Coleman's.

 

[ECK]

A shooting buddy and I spent some time practicing getting into position and getting off two shots under a par time of 15 secs. Prone and off a barricade.

 

[DangerRanger]

Keep an eye on Frontline Defense too. He had a match there last weekend. Close to the same drive as Coleman's.

Will do never gotten up to frontline

 

[KnowNothing256]

Before you practice building and breaking a given position, I'd highly recommend figuring out what body position gives you the most stable sight picture in that height. A great tool for this is a ladder. Pick a rung, then take all the time you need to get your wobble zone fully inside your target (a 1.5 MOA target would be a good size for this), then really mentally try to lock in what body position that is. Then practice building and breaking that position from a standing position (bolt back, mag in, I'd recommend dry firing this 4-5 times per live round, you'll get the same reps and save money).

Another key focus right out is working NPA; try to find a video or two illustrating what it is, what it looks like through the scope, and how you achieve it through small body adjustments. Once you figure out what NPA feels like, then you can transition to insisting for yourself that you have it before you press a shot. You'll time out all the time at first, but if you stick with it you'll outpace most midpack shooters with better fundamentals. I'm working on this myself, I always want to torch off all my shots on a stage, NPA notwithstanding...

 

[Jmkjr87]

Get a timer and do 10 sec drills. Start with all gear in hand, mag in bolt back. On the beep build a postion and get the shot off on target in 10 sec or less. It can be standing kneeling going from standing to prone whatever, once you take your shot start over. That had been the most single thing that has helped me improve

 

[DangerRanger]

Get a timer and do 10 sec drills. Start with all gear in hand, mag in bolt back. On the beep build a postion and get the shot off on target in 10 sec or less. It can be standing kneeling going from standing to prone whatever, once you take your shot start over. That had been the most single thing that has helped me improve

Would it be ok to start with longer and work up?

 

[Yoteski]

Would it be ok to start with longer and work up?

10 seconds is a ridiculously short amount of time. I would start with no time and work on accuracy and finding your weaknesses. Running too short of time too soon will be detrimental; the old saying, you can't miss fast enough. After you sort out accuracy and work on your weak positions, then start from 15 seconds and work down. If you find yourself timing out or getting punchy on the trigger, add more time.
Saying to start with 10 second par times is just bad advice, period. It sounds like a great way to get training scars and you won't have time to analyze your shot process. Practice will in of itself, make you faster.

 

[Jmkjr87]

10 sec is the target, doesn't mean you have to meet that target at first.

 

[308pirate]

10 seconds is a ridiculously short amount of time. I would start with no time and work on accuracy and finding your weaknesses. Running too short of time too soon will be detrimental; the old saying, you can't miss fast enough. After you sort out accuracy and work on your weak positions, then start from 15 seconds and work down. If you find yourself timing out or getting punchy on the trigger, add more time.
Saying to start with 10 second par times is just bad advice, period. It sounds like a great way to get training scars and you won't have time to analyze your shot process. Practice will in of itself, make you faster.

I strongly disagree with all of this. The point of the ultra short par time (or ultra high hit factor) is

1. Tell you what your ultimate goal is. What it takes to win.
2. Give you stress

That doesn't mean that you ignore the fundamentals and correct technique to beat a time. Yes, the wheels will fall off at some point but that point has to be found and fixed so that the wheels fall off at a higher speed next time. See "speed mode" by Steve Anderson. If you don't have the self discipline to do things right while finding ways to be more efficient, then by all means put some training wheels on your timer and give yourself several minutes.

The part in bold has been proven to be wrong time and again by people who win in shooting sports where time matters. Anyone who has ever trained with champions (Tim Herron, Mason Lane, Ben Stoeger in my sport) will know that one never gets fast unless one tries to go fast.

Speed doesn't happen magically on its own through practice. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast is total bullshit.

 

[Jmkjr87]

I strongly disagree with all of this. The point of the ultra short par time (or ultra high hit factor) is

1. Tell you what your ultimate goal is. What it takes to win.
2. Give you stress

That doesn't mean that you ignore the fundamentals and correct technique to beat a time. Yes, the wheels will fall off at some point but that point has to be found and fixed so that the wheels fall off at a higher speed next time. See "speed mode" by Steve Anderson. If you don't have the self discipline to do things right while finding ways to be more efficient, then by all means put some training wheels on your timer and give yourself several minutes.

The part in bold has been proven to be wrong time and again by people who win in shooting sports where time matters. Anyone who has ever trained with champions (Tim Herron, Mason Lane, Ben Stoeger in my sport) will know that one never gets fast unless one tries to go fast.

Speed doesn't happen magically on its own through practice. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast is total bullshit.

Fully agree except building muscle memory will make you faster but there is a cap to it. Then you have to move faster to be faster. Like I said 10 sec drills will make you a better PRS shooter whether you meet the 10 sec time or not

 

[Rob01]

Yup the muscle memory and smooth transitions make you do them faster than a guy who is trying to move fast and using all sorts of unneeded movement but moving fast doing it and flailing around. That's where the slow is smooth, smooth is fast saying comes in. It doesn't end there but being able to transition smoothly with no excess movement and dropping into your shooting position and on target will make you faster and more practice doing that will make you even faster.

 

[308pirate]

Fully agree except building muscle memory will make you faster but there is a cap to it. Then you have to move faster to be faster. Like I said 10 sec drills will make you a better PRS shooter whether you meet the 10 sec time or not

I think we're saying the same thing.

 

[308pirate]

Yup the muscle memory and smooth transitions make you do them faster than a guy who is trying to move fast and using all sorts of unneeded movement but moving fast doing it and flailing around. That's where the slow is smooth, smooth is fast saying comes in. It doesn't end there but being able to transition smoothly with no excess movement and dropping into your shooting position and on target will make you faster and more practice doing that will make you even faster.

You can be fast and smooth. Plenty of examples of that in youtube for anyone who wants to see.

 

[Rob01]

You can be fast and smooth. Plenty of examples of that in youtube for anyone who wants to see.

Yeah. I just said that. I didn't say you had to be one or the other. Read my post again.

 

[Yoteski]

I strongly disagree with all of this. The point of the ultra short par time (or ultra high hit factor) is

1. Tell you what your ultimate goal is. What it takes to win.
2. Give you stress

That doesn't mean that you ignore the fundamentals and correct technique to beat a time. Yes, the wheels will fall off at some point but that point has to be found and fixed so that the wheels fall off at a higher speed next time. See "speed mode" by Steve Anderson. If you don't have the self discipline to do things right while finding ways to be more efficient, then by all means put some training wheels on your timer and give yourself several minutes.

The part in bold has been proven to be wrong time and again by people who win in shooting sports where time matters. Anyone who has ever trained with champions (Tim Herron, Mason Lane, Ben Stoeger in my sport) will know that one never gets fast unless one tries to go fast.

Speed doesn't happen magically on its own through practice. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast is total bullshit.

With pistol I agree. Most of the time is spent on the draw and presentation to target. Precision rifle is simply different. Rarely, you will find yourself on a shot timer in a "PRS" match. You have an allotted amount of time to get off X amount of shots. 10 seconds being a goal is absolutely fine, but it's an extremely fast time as I've practiced this drill thousands of times. I guess it also depends on the prop you're building and breaking off of, so it is contextual. For rifle I practice off a stock panel which is pretty unforgiving as far as stability.
You have to find accuracy first with a precision rifle. If I time out and only get 9 shots off but hit all of them, I'll beat most of the field 10 out of 10 times. Not really true in pistol. There is an overlap for time/accuracy in pistol. My practice regimen for the two disciplines are completely different.
I lol'd at your last statement. This weekend during the pistol portion of a course I looked at my partner and said, "Slow is..." He said "smooth." Which I replied, "NO, slow is F'n slow!"

 

[Jmkjr87]

10 secs for a 12 round stage is 120 seconds. Some matchs are 90 seconds part times some are 105, so you gotta be moving to not time out but if your not breaking clean shots and leaving points on the table because your rushing then that's no good either. If you wanna win you have to atleast be faster than 10 sec per shot. Practice dry firing with 10 sec drill, do a 100 of those before you even go fire a live round doing this drill

 

[DangerRanger]

Thanks everyone! I’ve been watching some videos on the rifle Kraft challenge and listening to his podcast now. Seems like building and breaking positions is a huge part of this.

Is dialing vs holds on stages with lots of targets just a personal preference thing for people? Some people in my group were dialing each target, some dialed the first then held for the rest etc

 

[Jmkjr87]

Dial for the first target or I dial for the smallest or hardest target to hit and then hold for the rest. It is faster holding over than dialing

 

[Rob01]

Dial for the first target or I dial for the smallest or hardest target to hit and then hold for the rest. It is faster holding over than dialing

That is stage dependent. Would not use that as a hard rule. Let the stage tell you if you need to hold or dial but both need to be practiced.

 

[Jmkjr87]

That is stage dependent. Would not use that as a hard rule. Let the stage tell you if you need to hold or dial but both need to be practiced.

Correct but as a general rule holding over is faster. If it's a troop line stage and your shooting at 5 targets, near to far, 2 rounds per target, 500 out to 1000 then I will dial. If your shooting at 3 different targets, 3 different distances and moving 3 times im gonna hold over

 

[308pirate]

With pistol I agree. Most of the time is spent on the draw and presentation to target. Precision rifle is simply different. Rarely, you will find yourself on a shot timer in a "PRS" match. You have an allotted amount of time to get off X amount of shots. 10 seconds being a goal is absolutely fine, but it's an extremely fast time as I've practiced this drill thousands of times. I guess it also depends on the prop you're building and breaking off of, so it is contextual. For rifle I practice off a stock panel which is pretty unforgiving as far as stability.
You have to find accuracy first with a precision rifle. If I time out and only get 9 shots off but hit all of them, I'll beat most of the field 10 out of 10 times. Not really true in pistol. There is an overlap for time/accuracy in pistol. My practice regimen for the two disciplines are completely different.
I lol'd at your last statement. This weekend during the pistol portion of a course I looked at my partner and said, "Slow is..." He said "smooth." Which I replied, "NO, slow is F'n slow!"

The parallels are stronger than that.

While not as common as they once were, fixed time stages are still a thing in USPSA. They are the same deal as a PRS stage. You have X time to get as many possible points out of however many the stage is worth. And they are all different.

You have to find accuracy first in USPSA. Particularly in divisions that are only minor PF. No difference. Marksmanship matters, without it speed is mostly irrelevant. Yes, hit factor makes it a sliding scale, but it doesn't slide all the way to "spray and pray".

Outside of classifiers, the draw is the smallest time eater as a % of stage time. Transitions and movement from A to B are like 90% of where the time wasted goes.

 

[Rob01]

Correct but as a general rule holding over is faster. If it's a troop line stage and your shooting at 5 targets, near to far, 2 rounds per target, 500 out to 1000 then I will dial. If your shooting at 3 different targets, 3 different distances and moving 3 times im gonna hold over

Yes faster but needs to be practiced to be accurate with holds. Also just wanted the OP being newer to not think he should be holding every stage to be faster. Take each stage and make the best plan for the stage.

 

[DangerRanger]

Makes sense thanks all!

 

[Rog2069]

Also check out Pigg River. Great PRS venue that holds matches often and prob not too far from you.

I’ll say this about holding vs dialing - if you practice building a position and getting 1 shot off in 10 seconds or less and get proficient with it, then with transitioning to the next position efficiently, you will be able to dial stages more often without timing out. Your need to use holdovers due to target/positions in a stage won’t be as drastic. Then you will be able to pick when you want to use holdovers instead of it being a necessity due to time restraints.

Most east coast matches are 90 second par times. Usually that’s enough time to dial 90% of stages in a 1 day match once you get used to position building efficiently

 

[Mormegil87]

1) Buy a DFAT.

2) Use the DFAT to develop a perfect trigger press every single time. Until your reticle has ZERO movement in your reticle when the pin drops, it's not perfect.

3) Work on doing that under time with different positions. I use a tripod to work on different barricade heights.

4) Take this to the range at 100yds and do the Kraft Challenge or whatever barricade practice you want to do. If youre not shooting 1 moa groups from positional at 100, then don't worry about the wind, it's probably not your issue.

5) Translate the above out to distance and focus on watching where your shots are impacting.

The wind stuff will come later and is really overblown in most cases. Until you can build a solid position and watch where your shots are impacting, it's extremely hard to make solid wind calls.

 

[Dot3]

Legit OP and awesome responses. I’m newbie AF to the match scene too so knowing what to drill is very helpful.

 

[todd]

Before you practice building and breaking a given position, I'd highly recommend figuring out what body position gives you the most stable sight picture in that height. A great tool for this is a ladder. Pick a rung, then take all the time you need to get your wobble zone fully inside your target (a 1.5 MOA target would be a good size for this), then really mentally try to lock in what body position that is. Then practice building and breaking that position from a standing position (bolt back, mag in, I'd recommend dry firing this 4-5 times per live round, you'll get the same reps and save money).

Another key focus right out is working NPA; try to find a video or two illustrating what it is, what it looks like through the scope, and how you achieve it through small body adjustments. Once you figure out what NPA feels like, then you can transition to insisting for yourself that you have it before you press a shot. You'll time out all the time at first, but if you stick with it you'll outpace most midpack shooters with better fundamentals. I'm working on this myself, I always want to torch off all my shots on a stage, NPA notwithstanding...

Agreed. Spend the time at the house, no one around, take all the time you want to figure out what works best for you to build a solid position. Then work on deconstructing it so you can make it easily repeatable. Then go to the range at 100 yards and see how it holds up to recoil and fine-tune your position.

As others have mentioned who shoot better than I, when you're starting out, don't worry about trying to get all the shots off in a stage. Your focus should be to get GOOD shots off. I've seen guys take 3 shots and get 3 hits and be way happier with their performance than taking 10 shots and getting 1 (or zero) hits.

 

[mikeshaw2]

As others have mentioned who shoot better than I, when you're starting out, don't worry about trying to get all the shots off in a stage. Your focus should be to get GOOD shots off. I've seen guys take 3 shots and get 3 hits and be way happier with their performance than taking 10 shots and getting 1 (or zero) hits.

I find myself trying to go slow and still missing. ...but that's improving with shooting more matches.

There's only so much you can work on at ranges with benches

Friday I brought a set of 'homemade with magic markers' 'KYL targets' and while I was moving quickly, I wasn't 'on the clock.' Next time I'm likely go use the timers on the targets and see if I can't better simulate the time stress from matches

M

 

[ECK]

One of the things I see at local NRL22 matches is people waste a lot of time on stages, forcing them to rush their shots or time out. I used to be one of those people.

My shooting buddy and I have been working on getting into position, building a solid position, and getting the first shot off in <15 secs, ideally two shots. We do this from various positions: prone, sawhorse, ladders, tank trap, barrels, bucket, etc. whatever we have available. Usually when we practice we bring a sawhorse and a ladder. Our range has a tank trap, barrel, cinder blocks, tires, and a barricade that we can use. The idea is not to shoot a 10 shot string each time, but break it down into smaller drills that we can do over and over again. Start standing with all gear in hand and work on getting into position and get 2 shots off in under a par time. We then practice with two targets and two positions for a total of 4 shots off under 30 sec par time. We’ve done it dialing or holding over, on targets at different distances, etc.

One of the things that helped us is figuring out the right body position for any given situation. For any position waist height or taller (barricade or tank trap or barrel) standing seems to be best with feet far apart and bending at the waist as needed. For anything below our waist the double kneel has become my goto as it sees to be more stable than a single knee and using my strong side knee as an elbow rest (which sometimes works depending on the height). For positions 2’ tall (i.e. 5 gal buckets / 2nd rung on a ladder) I usually do a double kneel but get my body as low as possible in a goofy yoga prayer move. For a 2 gal bucket / cinder block / truck tire / last rung on a ladder/etc., going prone while using my elbows for rear support seems to be a pretty solid position.

The other thing I was wasting a lot of time on was finding the next target in my scope (sometimes engaging the wrong target). This took some time, and when we practice centerfire (at centerfire distances) I still struggle sometimes. I’m learning to point my rifle at the target, square up behind it, look over the top of the scope and then lower my eye to the scope (usually, hopefully, the right target is in the FOV). Keeping my magnification down around 15X-ish when transitioning seems to help with that as well. Adjust parallax as needed. At longer distances, I try to pick out a landmark that helps with finding the target faster.

All the practice is paying off, at the Oct NRL22 match my shooting buddy was getting his first shot off in less than 10 sec on quite a few stages. I was a tad longer but always finished with time left (which helped on that one stage where time remaining counted towards bonus points). Guys on our squad that were timing out were usually bc they wasted time at the beginning messing with body position / had difficulty finding the target / forgot to dial or set their parallax before the time started….

My buddy placed 4th and I somehow managed to squeak out a 1st place finish, so something seems to be working.

 

[Roc]

The rifle kraft drill, will let you know what you need to work on.