Practicing for Appleseed.....humbled

[Colt45guy]

I signed up for an Appleseed 2 day event in October. Its going to be a fun weekend for me, and the girlfriend's 17 y/o son has never been to anything like this before. He's a new shooter and has done fairly well with my centerfire stuff out to 600 yds, but we've only shot prone or benched.

I don't want to look stupid in front of the boy, so, I decided that I needed to start practicing with the less stable positions.

I ran through each of the various positions--sitting, kneeling, prone and standing--with my new B14R. I took off the bipod and added a good sling, measured off 25 yards and shot 40 rounds from each position, using my phone as a timer. Targets were my little 2" steel spinners--I figured if I can hit those, I shouldn't have too much trouble with the scaled down AQT used at the event.


I did really well for the first 50-75 rounds......and Holy Shit did it go downhill fast. I either need to up my PT, or go buy a lightweight, basic 10/22 for this.

A Rem 700 footprint, heavy barreled, scoped rifle gets heavy, quick!


Moral of the story is: Shooting is fun. Take a kid with you. Don't expect to win anything without practice. PT is still important.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Lightweight semi auto for appleseed.

you are going to have a great time together

 

[johnnyvw]

My second day at the Appleseed events I have been to have been worse than the first day...I have shoulder tendonitis issues, and just plain get worn out. I've managed to clear the recoat target, but have not made rifleman.
But they are fun!

 

[Gunnie88]

Appleseed is a fun event. Bergara knew they were missing the road on QA events like this and created their version of the 10/22...The BXR is pretty amazing right out of the box but any 10/22 will do. You were smart and mixing it up at the range and using a timer. Plenty of time practice as well as get another rifle/scope. What ammo were you shooting?

 

[Colt45guy]

Appleseed is a fun event. Bergara knew they were missing the road on QA events like this and created their version of the 10/22...The BXR is pretty amazing right out of the box but any 10/22 will do. You were smart and mixing it up at the range and using a timer. Plenty of time practice as well as get another rifle/scope. What ammo were you shooting?

Yep--I gave the boy my 10/22 a few weeks ago when I got my B14R. I had planned to buy him a new one, but I haven't seen a new 10/22 for sale in the wild for months around here. Used ones come up on Armslist every now and then, but I"m not paying the ridiculous prices they're asking. I'm keeping my eyes peeled and a few hundred bucks in my wallet for when I finally do stumble upon one.

As for ammo, I've been having some good results with Blazer 40gr round nose after a little tweaking. They seem to be good for 2 1/2" - 3" groups at 100 yds right out of the box, and I run them through a Waltz die to make them a little more uniform. After sizing, they group a bit better than 2". I still get some random fliers, but the Blazer seems to be more consistent than any other bulk ammo I've tried. It's not Eley Match or CenterX, but not $20/50 either.

I got hooked on long range smallbore about 2 years ago and I've been buying ammo every time I find a decent price. I tried CCI SV and it did good, so I bought 4 bricks......tried Norma Tac and it worked a little better, so I bought 3 bricks......tried Federal 40gr Black Box and it worked pretty good, so I bought 3 of the 1100rd boxes......etc. I think I'm sitting on about 20K rounds total, so I should be good for awhile.

Unfortunately, the majority of my stash is Winchester and Federal 38gr that I stocked up after the last panic ended--they're fine for plinking/pistols, but just don't have the accuracy for anything beyond 25 yds.

 

[Gunnie88]

Yep--I gave the boy my 10/22 a few weeks ago when I got my B14R. I had planned to buy him a new one, but I haven't seen a new 10/22 for sale in the wild for months around here. Used ones come up on Armslist every now and then, but I"m not paying the ridiculous prices they're asking. I'm keeping my eyes peeled and a few hundred bucks in my wallet for when I finally do stumble upon one.

As for ammo, I've been having some good results with Blazer 40gr round nose after a little tweaking. They seem to be good for 2 1/2" - 3" groups at 100 yds right out of the box, and I run them through a Waltz die to make them a little more uniform. After sizing, they group a bit better than 2". I still get some random fliers, but the Blazer seems to be more consistent than any other bulk ammo I've tried. It's not Eley Match or CenterX, but not $20/50 either.

I got hooked on long range smallbore about 2 years ago and I've been buying ammo every time I find a decent price. I tried CCI SV and it did good, so I bought 4 bricks......tried Norma Tac and it worked a little better, so I bought 3 bricks......tried Federal 40gr Black Box and it worked pretty good, so I bought 3 of the 1100rd boxes......etc. I think I'm sitting on about 20K rounds total, so I should be good for awhile.

Unfortunately, the majority of my stash is Winchester and Federal 38gr that I stocked up after the last panic ended--they're fine for plinking/pistols, but just don't have the accuracy for anything beyond 25 yds.

No kidding about 10/22 shortage. It is highly sought after as it’s an ideal “preppers gun”. Maybe you’ll stumble across one at a pawn shop etc.

 

[Colt45guy]

Got bored and went to the gunshow today. Found a BNIB base model 10/22 for $289! I'm still going to bring the B14R, but the website says to bring a spare rifle if you can. I'll likely start with the B14R and as I start feeling old and enfeebled, switch to the Ruger.

I can't decide between topping it with an Aimpoint PRO or a Vortex PST 1-4. My eyes aren't what they used to be and I think I may go with the scope.....buy a light rifle, put a heavy scope on it.....<shrug> Its fun!

 

[johnnyvw]

the money shot on the redcoat target is "Morgan's shingle", 3/4" wide by 1" tall. Yeah, go with the scope, I was running a 3x9 at about 5 power to hit it...hell, just to see it! LOL

 

[accurate obsession]

I did it with a CZ452 and peeps, not too bad on weight but I highly recommend a semi with low power optic.

 

[AManWearingAHat]

I did it with a CZ452 and peeps, not too bad on weight but I highly recommend a semi with low power optic.
View attachment 7647074

What rear sight is that on your 452?

 

[accurate obsession]

What rear sight is that on your 452?

It is a set of BRNO sights (I think the front got cut out of pic). Back in the day there was BRNOMAN on Rimfire Central and they came from him.
*edit* The adjustable iris on rear is a Gehman, added to the stock sight via an adapter.

 

[Gunnie88]

Got bored and went to the gunshow today. Found a BNIB base model 10/22 for $289! I'm still going to bring the B14R, but the website says to bring a spare rifle if you can. I'll likely start with the B14R and as I start feeling old and enfeebled, switch to the Ruger.

I can't decide between topping it with an Aimpoint PRO or a Vortex PST 1-4. My eyes aren't what they used to be and I think I may go with the scope.....buy a light rifle, put a heavy scope on it.....<shrug> Its fun!

Definitely lighter than you B14R

 

[BenjaminMartin6.5]

I used an old 10-22 with 4x scope. BX trigger and Anguilla rn ammo. I had to take it twice before I made Rifleman. It is humbling for sure to shoot consistent for score and time. Loved it though and the kids will love it too, not to mention the history lessons! Instructors were super awesome and we got o shoot M1 Garand afterwards!

 

[Gunnie88]

I used an old 10-22 with 4x scope. BX trigger and Anguilla rn ammo. I had to take it twice before I made Rifleman. It is humbling for sure to shoot consistent for score and time. Loved it though and the kids will love it too, not to mention the history lessons! Instructors were super awesome and we got o shoot M1 Garand afterwards!

Great event for sure. Meet some great people and it’s family friendly with a history lesson is a plus..

 

[BenjaminMartin6.5]

Great event for sure. Meet some great people and it’s family friendly with a history lesson is a plus..

Man, you make me want to take it again! Maybe I can see about being an instructor. That would probably be more fun!

 

[Gunnie88]

Man, you make me want to take it again! Maybe I can see about being an instructor. That would probably be more fun!

Heck yeah!!! Travel to others in or around your area (150 miles). Even though the agenda is somewhat the same, different ranges, different people make it a new experience

 

[Gunnie88]

Check out NRL22 matches held in or around your area. Tons of fun as well

 

[skyrep]

I went to my first Appleseed a few years back - It was one of the best experience i've had since i left boot camp (Paris Island) in 68. After the first day of shooting (6-8 hours worth), i got home and told my wife that i will never qualify as a Riflemen. It kicked my butt. However, on the second day i got it together and out of 15 Shooters, I was the only one that got my Riflemen badge that day and i was the only one shooting a bolt gun (Savage MK II). Since then i've been through their KD course (used a AR-15) and a few of their other courses. You will have FUN.

 

[Colt45guy]

Thanks for telling me about your experiences. I'm really looking forward to this......whodathunk I'd be so excited about spending a day shooting .22s? I had a 10/22 for DECADES that basically only got shot when there was a raccoon or possum in the chicken coop before I rediscovered the fun in smallbore.

The GF's son is coming over this weekend and we're going to practice together. I've got my little base model carbine set up with the 1-4 PST, stock pack, VQ trigger and a good sling. I've put ~500 rounds through it and it's smoothed out nicely. He's got my old tricked out heavy barrel, Titan stocked, VQ trigger and a 4-14 Diamondback Tactical. We're going to put a sling on it and run through the positions and practice mag changes.

 

[chevy_man]

Doesn't look like anyone does these within 5 hours of me.

What does the course of fire entail?

 

[skyrep]

Doesn't look like anyone does these within 5 hours of me.

What does the course of fire entail?

It reminded me when I went through my two-week training on Marksmanship training in boot camp at Parris Island.

Three Position: Off Hand, kneeling or sitting and Prone. All positions are timed both for slow and rapid fire. And it's all done without bipod and bags. Sling is required. Scopes are allowed up to a certain power.
Target is set up at 25 yards. The target has targets on it resembling 100-, 200-, 300- & 400-yards shots. And of course, the best part is the history of how the US got its independence and the Riflemen from the Civil War is taught throughout the two days of shooting. You learn a different perspective of what the Riflemen went thru. Best two days of shooting I’ve had. Recommend to all to try it at least once. I’ve been through a couple of times to include the KD (known distance) Course.
And by the way – out of 15 shooters, I was the only one with a Bolt Gun (Savage Mark ii) and the only one that qualified the final day.

 

[Colt45guy]

Out of curiosity, what is the required score for earning Rifleman?

 

[Gunnie88]

Out of curiosity, what is the required score for earning Rifleman?

210 pts to achieve marksmanship, 220 and above, you warm advances marksmanship

 

[308pirate]

I can't decide between topping it with an Aimpoint PRO or a Vortex PST 1-4. My eyes aren't what they used to be

A red dot sight is no handicap. I'm 55, with terrible vision (unless I wear my glasses) and can no target in the 25 meter AQT is too small to be shot effectively with an RDS.

When I get home today I'll put up some pictures of what can be done.

 

[NCchris]

Appleseed is great! I've done it 3 times. Made rifleman twice, once with 10/22 and scope and once with 10/22 and iron sights. One thing you may not realize is that you also get an accurate lesson in American history!
Chris

 

[Colt45guy]

Glad to hear that my Aimpoint should work! That right there will shave a full pound off of my rig. I'll swap it over from the AR tonight and give it a whirl---to be honest, I prefer shooting with the RDS vs a scope anyway......a dot is just so much faster and easier for my old eyes to pick up

 

[Old Man with Gun]

I've done several Appleseed and was able to get distinguished every time I used a 10/22. The time I did not, I had loaned out both of my 10/22s so friends could try for distinguished and I used a bolt action instead. You need a semi-automatic to stay stable and on pace.

Strongly recommend a 10/22 with scope that can get to the 3-7 range. I have a 3-9x and a 6.5-20x, both were fine. Ranges are short, so an adjustable focus to under 25yds will make things much clearer and make eye position easier.

If you are not using a parallax adjustable scope, move your eye side to side and up to down to see how much the crosshair wanders. This will show you how important it is to position your eye the same way every time. If you do not get behind the scope the same in every position, learn your change in impact for each.

Make sure you have a good cheek weld. A standard stock is setup for sights, not scope. I use the Archangel stock on mine, so adjustable comb.

Also, every Appleseed I've been to, had at least an extra dozen 10/22s brought as loaners by the instructors. It is nice to have your own rifle, but reach out to secure a loaner if needed.

The Appleseed community is vast, if you reach out, they probably have a red hat local that would be willing to help you work on good habits.

 

[308pirate]

Glad to hear that my Aimpoint should work! That right there will shave a full pound off of my rig. I'll swap it over from the AR tonight and give it a whirl---to be honest, I prefer shooting with the RDS vs a scope anyway......a dot is just so much faster and easier for my old eyes to pick up

A huge advantage of reflex sights is that their parallax error is very small, compared to magnified optics.

Also, bolt action rifles are no disadvantage for anyone who wants to put in the small amount of work needed to be efficient with the bolt.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

Also, bolt action rifles are no disadvantage for anyone who wants to put in the small amount of work needed to be efficient with the bolt.

That is not my experience at Appleseed. I have shot Appleseed with both semi and bolt, and a bolt action is boss level hard.

I am proficient with a bolt action, most would say very, but my scores dropped signifigantly from semi-automatic.

In prone position you break position after every shot, not only to change magazines.

Before you shoot each stage you have time to find your natural position, it is very hard to work a bolt between each shot and not have it change anything at all. It is easy, almost zen like to squeeze off your shots with a semi-automatic.

It is worse in sitting and standing and on the fast paced timed stages, I could barely finish in time and get solid hits.

When I showed up with the bolt action, they tried to talk me out of using it.

On the second day after my friend made distinguished with my 10/22. I took it back and beat my best bolt score by 16 points on the last qualifier of the day.

 

[308pirate]

That is not my experience at Appleseed.

I competed for several years in NRA Highpower Rifle. First with an AR-15 Service Rifle (made Master with it) and then switched to a Match Rifle made on a Model 70 action.

Losing NPA when working the bolt isn't necessary. It's just shooter error from not using correct technique.

I realize that the skill of running a bolt gun quickly from a sling supported prone or sitting is not something most Americans know how to do any more and it's basically a lost art.

That's why someone who is skilled with a rifle in a different context ends up having a train wreck they try.

Master Sergeant Julia Watson shows how it's done

 

[phlegethon]

I competed for several years in NRA Highpower Rifle. First with an AR-15 Service Rifle (made Master with it) and then switched to a Match Rifle made on a Model 70 action.

Losing NPA when working the bolt isn't necessary. It's just shooter error from not using correct technique.

I realize that the skill of running a bolt gun quickly from a sling supported prone or sitting is not something most Americans know how to do any more and it's basically a lost art.

That's why someone who is skilled with a rifle in a different context ends up having a train wreck they try.

Master Sergeant Julia Watson shows how it's done

That's a really cool video. It's a shame this isn't something more people are doing these days.

 

[308pirate]

Glad to hear that my Aimpoint should work! That right there will shave a full pound off of my rig. I'll swap it over from the AR tonight and give it a whirl---to be honest, I prefer shooting with the RDS vs a scope anyway......a dot is just so much faster and easier for my old eyes to pick up

I've never gone to an Appleseed. I don't need to learn what they teach since I learned it years ago.

I do use their course of fire, including their par times, to stay sharp with my sling shooting.

Last time I ran it this is what I got:

With this

I also sometimes shoot the CMP rimfire sporter course of fire

This was prone slow fire at 50 yards

Prone rapid fire, 50 yards

Sitting rapid fire, 50 yards

Standing slow fire, 25 yards

All with the same 452 with a SIG Romeo5 red dot sight.

 

[BenjaminMartin6.5]

A red dot sight is no handicap. I'm 55, with terrible vision (unless I wear my glasses) and can no target in the 25 meter AQT is too small to be shot effectively with an RDS.

When I get home today I'll put up some pictures of what can be done.

I ran a 10/22 with fixed 4x and it was great. My eye are older too. Red dot is too large to see the simulated 400 yrd targets.

 

[308pirate]

Red dot is too large to see the simulated 400 yrd targets.

I didn't have any problems. A 2 MOA dot covers a bit more than 1/2" at 25 meters. The 400 yard simulated targets are 1 1/2" wide and 1 1/16" tall.

 

[BenjaminMartin6.5]

I didn't have any problems. A 2 MOA dot covers a bit more than 1/2" at 25 meters. The 400 yard simulated targets are 1 1/2" wide and 1 1/16" tall.

View attachment 7668487

True, mine must be more than 2moa, not sure what it is. Good shooting!

 

[308pirate]

True, mine must be more than 2moa, not sure what it is. Good shooting!

You can do it with a larger dot, you just need to shoot a 6 o'clock hold with the bottom of the target black resting on top of the dot. Just have to re-zero for that.

In fact, I think a 6 o'clock hold is superior to a center of mass hold for this application.

Thanks.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

If using a red dot, dim it to where it is just visible to get the most out of it. A bright dot makes the dot bigger and the target harder to see.

 

[308pirate]

If using a red dot, dim it to where it is just visible to get the most out of it. A bright dot makes the dot bigger and the target harder to see.

Excellent advice. Not only does it make it easier to see the target, it also makes the dot's edges sharper and reduces any distortions.

 

[BenjaminMartin6.5]

You can do it with a larger dot, you just need to shoot a 6 o'clock hold with the bottom of the target black resting on top of the dot. Just have to re-zero for that.

In fact, I think a 6 o'clock hold is superior to a center of mass hold for this application.

Thanks.

Thank you sir, that is 101 for sights and should be used for RDS. I do use this principle for my ACOG with amber triangle recticle, but never thought about it with dot of whatever Moa. You're the man! If that's your pronoun preference...

 

[308pirate]

Thank you sir, that is 101 for sights and should be used for RDS. I do use this principle for my ACOG with amber triangle recticle, but never thought about it with dot of whatever Moa. You're the man! If that's your pronoun preference...

Yes, definitely a man.

LOL

 

[camocorvette]

It is humbling. I've just participated in one match and practiced a few.

My biggest take away was positional shooting. I need to practice it. That's all I've really been doing on the farm lately. Also using a sling. I was taught years ago that it's more then for throwing a rifle on your shoulder. I just got lazy with benches and bags.

So now I practice shooting offhand and in all the positions that I don't find comfortable. It's helped me alot and I hope to see my scores improve the next match.

 

[Colt45guy]

I had forgotten about this post. Thanks to everyone for the info and encouragement.

It's been a year and a half, and I have 4 Appleseeds under my belt--and 4 Rifleman patches

First one I got to attend was in Oct '21, and I managed to pull off a 211 and a 218.

#2 was a few months later up in N. Carolina. Having built upon what I had learned at the first AS, I shot a few AQTs in the mid-220s and a high of 236.

#3, I decided to use an AR in 5.56 instead of my old 10/22. I could only attend the first day due to a move, but I pulled off a 223 on the only AQT we shot due to weather.

#4 was about 2 months ago, and on the first day, I shot some really pathetic scores--I was trying for a Rifleman with iron sights, and I discovered that my eyesight is worse than I had thought. The second day, I used a built 10/22 (good glass, Timney trigger, VQ barrel and KRG chassis) and pulled off 2 consecutive Distinguished! 241 and a 242.

Appleseeds are stupid fun, especially for the cost! I'm not sure if I'm going to chase that 250 rocker or not......but I do intend to keep shooting AS and if it happens, I'll be pretty happy. I only missed it by 8 points--doesn't seem like much, but I lost 7 of those points on stage one and until I figure out my standing game, that 250 rocker might as well be on the moon

 

[NCHillbilly]

Way to go!. I shot an AS in Ramseur, NC years ago. Got my patch, got a great history lesson, and became a better shooter. This is a terrific program.