Just common sense makes me think a professional smith fitting a barrel would be more accurate than prefit barrels but being able to change barrels is very daunting to me. How much accuracy have you guys seen fore-fitted by easily changeable barrels.
Pre fit barrels vs gunshop barrel fitting
- Thread starter Cshultzy999
- Start date
When a prefit with barrel nut is properly installed and headspaced the really isn't any difference.
There is also the option of buying an action that is manufactured precisely enough that shouldered pre fits can be made for them essentially eliminating some of the tooling needed for barrel swaps.
I think the real majic is in how precisely the barrel is indicated and chambered as opposed to if it's a pre fit or not.
There is also the option of buying an action that is manufactured precisely enough that shouldered pre fits can be made for them essentially eliminating some of the tooling needed for barrel swaps.
I think the real majic is in how precisely the barrel is indicated and chambered as opposed to if it's a pre fit or not.
I’ve gone exclusively pre fit. So far I have had nothing but great luck. I use Shilen and Criterion barrels sourced through Northland shooters supply.
I now have two different shouldered pre fits for two different Atlas actions one chambered by Kelblys and one by WAR rifles neither had the actions in hand and both are extremely accurate.
Also have a McGowan prefit with nut on a savage that has been a hammer since day one.
There is a thread made by @Rob01 i think that did a pretty exhaustive test on pre fits from various barrel manufactureres and worth checking out if you are curious.
Also have a McGowan prefit with nut on a savage that has been a hammer since day one.
There is a thread made by @Rob01 i think that did a pretty exhaustive test on pre fits from various barrel manufactureres and worth checking out if you are curious.
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I’ve had 3 button and 1cut rifled pre fit barrels all with savage threads/nut.
I’ve yet to be disappointed.
I’ve yet to be disappointed.
As far as thread fit on my savage I’d agree.
Not overly sloppy but definitely not precise fit.
Screwing the prefits I’ve gotten into my nucleus is entirely different with no slop and a very clean and confidence inspiring fit.
Other variables being equal, I’d bet very few people could shoot the difference between a button rifled prefit and a cut rifled gunsmith install.
That's a good point but I think there are many people that still don't realize that many of the pre fits being offered are also cut rifled barrels.
I have seen that option more and more being offered.
Prefit barrels shoot very well. I am shooting a pva pre fit and is extremely accurate. Does not take a gunsmith 6 months to build either.
D
Deleted member 10043
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I've had better accuracy with prefits for both Savage and Remington. There really is no difference in accuracy paying a Smith to install a barrel. Higher tier custom actions are a different story. But I have seen a lot of nimrods with a fine custom action that can't hit shit so you get what you pay for is a loaded argument heard here a lot as some unfounded means to a fictitious end. Nevertheless, everybody should be able to replace a barrel themselves, regardless.
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I’ve only got one pre fit. It’s a remage 6 creed from criterion on a factory rem action. It shoots .4 moa for me constantly. I’m very pleased with it!
On custom fit barrels besides controlling the tenon thread clearance the barrel shoulder is adjusted so that the bore curvature points up.
Haha, none. When using the same quality blank and a quality chamber job they shoot exactly the same pre-fit with a nut vs a shouldered barrel. See my pre-fit vs shouldered barrel testing and review with 5 or 6 barrels from all the big names..
The benefits of a barrel nut vs. shouldered barrel are not discernible solely in accuracy testing. Barrels done by competent gunsmiths, regardless of how they’re headspaced, should shoot similarly all else being equal.
That being said, go give your barrel nut setup a solid whack on a barricade and then do the same with a shouldered barrel. While both may see a POI shift, the difference/advantage will not be difficult to see.
Lol. You think whacking a nut barrel on a piece of wood barricade is going to change anything? We arent using plastic kids wrenches here. Hint, tested this many times before. Nothing changes. Maybe I need to do a full video test of whacking barrels on barricades for you before rumors start spreading.
I’d watch it. ?
Ok. Test it and take a vid for sure. Zero both, then give both barrels a good whack on a barricade. Like a good solid whack. Not an axe swing but what could be realistic for an in-match barrel impact. Then re-zero. Should be relatively easy to do with an uncut video.
No problem. I have a Bighorn TL3 with a svagage small shank SPR/Bugholes 26" .223 Rem Match cut rifled Mullerworks barrel held in with Bighorns 12 Point barrel.nut. Is a tack driver. Will video that test for you and a Bighorn TL3 with a Bartlein 28" 6br shouldered.
May even get this recorded tomorrow and posted up if the weather plays nice.
I'm interested in seeing this.
I don't expect to see much of a difference between the two. I think a bigger difference would be seen between a shouldered barrel and a quick change barrel.
I have a pretty good idea of how this is going to come out as far as how the barreled action reacts, but are you planning on leaving the scope on? Depending on several things (what scope, what rings, where the impact is located, and how hard it is to name a few) you may see a shift that is not associated with the barrel retention method. Just thinking out loud...
D
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Scope stays on. MDT new unimount, Vortex Razor HD Gen2 4.5-27x56. Will hit the last 6" of the barrel. I wont be swinging this like a baseball bat.
I already know the outcome, but some need to see it to believe it ..
I was hoping you would be swinging for the fence...
Lolol. Who wants to donate hardware?? This may be turning into something. Have to call up the big guns for donations??
With a few assumptions being made, there should be zero difference in "on paper performance". To argue it intelligently is tough because there's 10's of thousands of people doing it every weekend at ranges all over the world, and they can put a shot plot on paper or steel that'll make someone look foolish for claiming otherwise.
Now what? I will share my opinion, take it for what its worth.
Guns owned by firearm enthusiasts are about as good an example as any of a grown man forming an emotional bond with an inanimate object. We covet this shit and there's nothing wrong with that. I am routinely reminded of this fact when someone arrives at my shop to take delivery of a new, max effort, build. It impacts people.
The only way I can truly deliver that kind of response is when I have all the wigits in front of me. Clocking a barrel for engraving, fluting, brake orientation, all of it. That stuff matters. At least it used to anyway. I wish the "Old Hide" site was still available because all one would have to do was troll back a decade or so to see the absolute shit shows that would surface if a guy's barrel flutes were not timed correctly. If a floor metal didn't marry up to the belly of a stock. Bedding jobs that weren't cosmetically right, etc...
I have had my ass run through a tree chipper more than once over this stuff. I've invested an absurd amount of money and time developing processes here so that we don't fight those problems anymore. Even with that, it's still something that from time to time bites us. My poor wife is often the victim of dirty looks from staff because she is the last line of defense for clients. Kalli looks over everything and will not hesitate to send something back.
I don't think this level of fit/finish is truly possible with "canned barrel jobs" being sent out the door by the bushel. Its seems more and more like less and less people give a shit about it too. Thats a buzz kill for me as I personally feel like it dilutes the trade as a whole. There IS more to gunplumbing that merely stabbing a barrel onto a receiver and shooting "whatever" groups. -At least there should be.
Again, my opinion and its not meant to offend anyone although it probably did.
C.
Well said Chad. I feel like you just hit the nail on the head as far as the real differences between a quality pre-fit and a quality gunsmith installed barrel, it comes down to pride of ownership and respect for craftsmanship. I think as the precision shooting sports have changed to where more and more people are competing in matches that chew on the exterior finish of the rifles and the demands of training eat barrels precision rifles have become more of a tool and therefore the emphasis has moved to more function over form. It certainly used to be form over function several years ago, or at least is how it seemed to me.
Have a handful of pva Prefit barrels. All have been shooters. Have had barrels done by The smith as well. They all shoot well but for I have gone exclusively to prefits unless it’s a caliber or spec that isn't offered.
Group in the picture is from a PVA shouldered Prefit 6mm dasher with about 1500 rounds on it for my TL3. This was shot to check zero after dropping the rifle off a barricade accidentally. POA is the corner of the square. I’d say it’s pretty well zero’d and it surely took much more than a “wack” on the barrel.
Group in the picture is from a PVA shouldered Prefit 6mm dasher with about 1500 rounds on it for my TL3. This was shot to check zero after dropping the rifle off a barricade accidentally. POA is the corner of the square. I’d say it’s pretty well zero’d and it surely took much more than a “wack” on the barrel.
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I agree with chad. Most gunsmiths do amazing work. My reason for switching to prefit was my local gunsmith would take over a year to spin a barrel. He would rather clean shotguns for the local farmers than spin 2-3 of my barrels. Now I can order a shouldered barrel instead of shipping my action to and from a gunsmith.
D
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People still want what you describe when they hire a gunsmith to do the work. If they DIY a barrel etc., not so much. Sort of ironic but it's substance over style. 10 years ago nobody realized we would be frying barrels more often and replacing them would become a common necessity, which only required investing in some tools.
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A men sir. I get sick of people putting a new stock on a rifle. Then saying look at this rifle I built. Screwing together a frankin15 or a Remage isn't difficult whatsoever. I put together more complicated Lego sets when I was six. The complicated part of building a rifle is all the little details, all the things you talked about plus some. I can really appreciate someone who shows love and respect for their craft. Not everyone out there does something they love for a living.
Straight lines and blended tangs, will never go out of style, like a class hot rod built with the same love applied. Of course I would hate to drive that classic hot rod up the old mining road to the top of the mountain. I would rather take my Frakenchevy up there.
All of my previous pre fits are Shilens.
Definitely not the finest chambers and machining but no problems and they shoot.
Recent pre fit I got from keystone on a brux blank has beautiful machining and chamber and it also shoots.
I’m proud of my clapped out home assembled rifles.
They’ve been a nice learning process and have some research and trial and error in them and taught me what I like and don’t like.
They shoot and work well for me and I source parts from manufacturers I like.
That’s more important to me than anything else.
Definitely not the finest chambers and machining but no problems and they shoot.
Recent pre fit I got from keystone on a brux blank has beautiful machining and chamber and it also shoots.
I’m proud of my clapped out home assembled rifles.
They’ve been a nice learning process and have some research and trial and error in them and taught me what I like and don’t like.
They shoot and work well for me and I source parts from manufacturers I like.
That’s more important to me than anything else.
Would you sat the same thing about a pre fit bartlien barrel from Bugholes, or a pre fit proof carbon barrel?
I've got a savage factory takeoff F class 223 barrel that I paid $100 for that shoots one hole at 100 yards with black hills 77 SMK ammo.
. I'll be plenty happy with a barrel that shoots 1/2 moa from 100-1000 all day long, even better if I can swap barrels without taking the action to a smith to have a barrel put on it. Last quote I got from my local smith was a minimum of 4 months to get a barrel chambered and I'd bet it would be more like 6-8.Assuming you’re talking about a top quality barrel blank machined by a good gunsmith then this has more to do with the consistency of the action than anything else.
With a top shelf action you wont see any difference between the two. IMO I’d buy an impact and run impact barrels if that’s your goal.
Depending on how much you’ll be swapping barrels then an AI may be a better route.
With a top shelf action you wont see any difference between the two. IMO I’d buy an impact and run impact barrels if that’s your goal.
Depending on how much you’ll be swapping barrels then an AI may be a better route.
A prefit is an inexpensive blank and a cheap chamber job? You can't make this shit up!! A prefit is a barrel.that is done by a Smith without an action in hand. Whether it be a nut barrel or shouldered prefit. It doesnt have dick to do with the blank or "chamber job." What's a cheap chamber job? Greg @ Bugholes, John @ Keystone, Josh @ PVA, War Rifle, SAC, etc are doing "cheap.chamber jobs" with inexpensive blanks? Your statements are so inaccurate its laughable.
And you asked about world records being set with prefits?? Take a look at my shouldered vs prefit review above with work done by various top name smiths and cut rifled blanks donated from Bartlein, Kreiger, Mullerworks and.button blanks donated by Shilen and Criterion.
You will see in my.thread Bighorn posted and linked to a BR world record set with their action and a nut barrel prefit...
Not everyone can afford to spend the money on a full custom rifle with every little detail carefully looked after. I have rifles and work done by almost every big name smith on here including LRI. LRI has amazing customer service and does top notch work. They have been innovative in the gunsmith industry and perfected many processes in rifle making, action truing, stock inletting, etc. They take pride in their work and do a great job.
Not everyone can afford to have them or other top name smiths build them a rifle from the ground up. This and the advancements in custom actions being so consistent off the CNC from action to action really caused the prefit market to boom. Not that long ago you bought Remage or Savage small shank nut barrels from a few places and that was it. If you wanted a custom rifle you selected a action, at that time mostly rem700's and the smith made you a rifle. Today the Rem700 custom rifle market isnt what it used to be. Guys can buy a Origin for cheaper than they can have their Rem700 done over and screw a prefit on.
Guys that cant afford the full on custom can grab a Rem700, origin, TL3, etc. and screw a shouldered or nut prefit on it at home and be every bit competitive. I dont care what anyone says, a nut or shouldered prefit made with a quality blank and a quality chamber job is equally as accurate as a shouldered barrel with the same specs. I've tested and proved this time and time again here.
Prefits have their place, and the market demands them. When someone wants a full on custom with every detail cared for they know who to call...
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Exactly, when the actions are so consistent one to another that the measurements a gunsmith would be taking to shoulder and headspace a barrel to this action or that one are 100% the same, does it matter if you sent them your action or just ordered the barrel that would be the same regardless? Fuck no it doesn't.
Also saying a prefit sucks because they don't hold a bunch of BR records is also like saying every custom smithed job should be a BR record holder which is retarded.
Barrel nuts are still gayer than two men fucking on a rainbow though.
And top finishers with a BR gun in a PRS match.
I could really care less how my pre fit barrels would do in the lead sled Olympics.
I have two Bughole barrels and they shoot exceptionally. One a Mullerworks and one a Bartlein. Greg and Russ are a pleasure to do business with and really seem to care. On the other hand, my last gunsmith fit Proof CF barrel was a dumpster fire of an experience. My use of prefit style barrels has more to do with the terrible communication and long waits commonly experienced with gunsmiths. In the last 20 years I've had about a 50/50 good versus bad experience rate with gunsmiths. I can bed a stock pretty well and headspacing a Savage style barrel is easy; why would I gamble on a negative experience given how good prefits have gotten?
Lol, pretty bold blanket statement. So you're saying that a stutteville or area419 bartlien impact/deviance prefit is shit quality, interesting.
OP, it comes to the shop doing the work. I've saw hack gunsmiths fuck up a bartlien blank and I've saw great Smith's use a McGowan or green mountain and make a hammer. Preferably you want a great smith and great blank, but difference in performance between a bartlien/hawkhill/kreiger and a criterion/shilen is a lot less than you imagine.
Repeating the same nonsense doesnt make your statements any more true. You keep saying PRS, nobody said PRS. Read some of the info being posted instead of only believing yourself. I have custom chambered, shouldered barrel rifles I have shot and reviewed side by side with the same powders, bullets, brass, primers, etc. against prefit shouldered and prefit nut barrels. Guess what, they shot the same. Just a quick google search here's a article from Criterion using one of their barrels from NSS on a Bighorn where this guy set 800, 900 and 1000yd national records.
Bob Petillo Sets Police F-Class National Record With Criterion Barrels Bighorn Pre-Fit Build - Criterion Barrels
Less than one year after participating in his first F-Class match, Bob Petillo set an F-Class National Record in the Police category with his Criterion pre-fit rifle build.
criterionbarrels.com
Shit here is a Mullerworks Cut Rifled savage small shank prefit on a Bighorn TL3 using a NSS barrel nut that shoots LIGHTS OUT. In the 0.0's and 0.1's. Can you believe that? Even different powders it still shoots just as accurate with both powders. A nut barrel that shoots that good done by Greg @ Southern PrecisionRifles/Bugholes?? Not possible right? Must be a fluke...... Cause you say it aint so. Oh and that was shot from the bench with a bipod and rear bag. No bolted down led sled.
Exactly
Why do I want a barrel optimized for BR in my rifle I shoot out in often ugly conditions?
Don’t compare barrels for super specialized competition for barrels that are functional in a variety of applications.
This whole BR thing your sprouting is advanced dumbassery at a world record level.
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