Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

[steve123]

I have a Ruger Race rifle that is impressively reliable and accurate(.5"-6" at 50Y) but I really just want a equally accurate and reliable AR upper so I can utilize the ergos and Geissele trigger of my AR lower which I much prefer. I'm probably steering away from the 10-22 platform so for now I don't want a Zimmerman or the like.

I did a search and found Compass Lake and Accuracy speaks.

Anyone else I should be considering?

If anybody owns a CL or AS upper can you please tell me about them. I'd like to know if the extra money for a top quality AR upper was worth paying after you've owned it now for a while.

 

[c1steve]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

http://tactical22.net/ar-15.htm has a list of similar ARs.

Tactical Solutions AR22 looks good, so does Spikes Tactical.
I expect to buy the Tac Sol.

s

 

[dlouie87]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

I have a spikes and that thing is fun to shoot!

 

[steve123]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: c1steve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://tactical22.net/ar-15.htm has a list of similar ARs.

Tactical Solutions AR22 looks good, so does Spikes Tactical.
I expect to buy the Tac Sol.

s

Thanks the links, just what I was looking for!





</div></div>

 

[steve123]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dlouie87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a spikes and that thing is fun to shoot! </div></div>

Shoot any groups at 50Y, how's it do ?

 

[Bronco]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

The Tactical solutions is a very good 22 lr upper. Main thing is it runs, not always the case with these. Good mags available also helps. It's accuracy like all 22's is dependent on the ammo you feed it. It isn't a bolt rifle, but you can expect around 1 moa with good ammo (Eley target, Wolf match, etc.)

 

[Erud]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

I had a CLE .22 A2 upper for a couple of years when I shot Service Rifle and it was excellent. Extremely accurate and great for cheap practice. I now shoot a match rifle and have a WOA .22 clone of my MR that is also excellent. I put around 3k rounds through for NRA Highpower practice this summer mostly off hand and sitting. It shoots great and I generally clean it after every 3rd practice session which comes out to 252 rounds. It almost always has a malfunction or two within the first 5 rounds after cleaning, then runs like a top until next cleaning. No real accuracy difference between clean and dirty either. Feeds perfectly from the M-261 mag inserts. I shoot it almost exclusively at 50 yards on reduced NRA HP targets and my scores on them accurately reflect my actual scores in real matches. It's about the best money I've ever spent on training.

Can post some pics later if you like.

Regards,
Erik

 

[dlouie87]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dlouie87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a spikes and that thing is fun to shoot! </div></div>

Shoot any groups at 50Y, how's it do ? </div></div>

I haven't shot groups with it. Just plinking stuff but I hit cans out to 50 no problem if I do my part with CCI ammo.

 

[steve123]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bronco</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Tactical solutions is a very good 22 lr upper. Main thing is it runs, not always the case with these. Good mags available also helps. It's accuracy like all 22's is dependent on the ammo you feed it. It isn't a bolt rifle, but you can expect around 1 moa with good ammo (Eley target, Wolf match, etc.) </div></div>

Thanks for the info!

 

[steve123]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Erud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had a CLE .22 A2 upper for a couple of years when I shot Service Rifle and it was excellent. Extremely accurate and great for cheap practice. I now shoot a match rifle and have a WOA .22 clone of my MR that is also excellent. I put around 3k rounds through for NRA Highpower practice this summer mostly off hand and sitting. It shoots great and I generally clean it after every 3rd practice session which comes out to 252 rounds. It almost always has a malfunction or two within the first 5 rounds after cleaning, then runs like a top until next cleaning. No real accuracy difference between clean and dirty either. Feeds perfectly from the M-261 mag inserts. I shoot it almost exclusively at 50 yards on reduced NRA HP targets and my scores on them accurately reflect my actual scores in real matches. It's about the best money I've ever spent on training.

Can post some pics later if you like.

Regards,
Erik </div></div>

Thanks Erik.

Please posts those pics of your 22 upper!

 

[Erud]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

Here you go. First pic is of the rifle and second is of 4 consecutive groups I fired with it recently. 50 yards, rapid fire(10 shots in 60 seconds with magazine change) from NRA sitting position with sling and iron sights. No rests, benches, bags or bipods. The only time I have ever had it on bags was the very first time I shot it and it was very easy to put 10 rounds in under 1/4" at 50.

Regards,
Erik

 

[dlouie87]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

Good shooting Erud! What stock is that?

 

[Erud]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dlouie87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good shooting Erud! What stock is that? </div></div>

Thanks Dan. The stock is also from White Oak - here's a link:

http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/xcart/product.php?productid=17815&cat=256&page=3

They are not cheap, but for this style of shooting there is nothing better. It is completely adjustable in all directions and will put your eye behind the sights from any position.

Regards,
Erik.

 

[steve123]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

Thanks Erik,

Looks to have great accuracy. You are a good shot!

That's what I'm hoping to do. Do you know what brand barrel WOA used? How much did the upper cost without sights? Did it take a long time to get?

 

[Erud]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

Steve,
Thanks for the compliment, this rifle is indeed a great shooter. I bought the upper used over on the National Match forum and paid $1k for it. WOA does not list them on their web site, but they will make them. Not sure on new price, you'd probably have to call them. I'm guessing it'd be comparable to the Compass Lake model in the $1100-$1300 range. Not cheap, but might be worth it depending on what you plan to do. For general plinking or range fun, one of the less expensive brands may suit you just as well. For me it was definitely worth it and I have seen dramatic improvements in my match scores. All said and done I probably have right around $3k on the rifle, about the same as the match gun.

Mine has a Douglas rimfire barrel, and I don't know how much better I could expect from a Krieger or other top-brand cut-rifled barrel. I would have no problem putting another Douglas on it if it ever needs to be re-barreled, but I don't know if it ever will. The original owner put around 700 rounds through it and I have added another 2611 since July and the barrel has absolutely ZERO wear, as evidenced with my borescope. I have no idea how many rounds of soft lead going 1100 fps it takes to wear out a barrel, but I'm guessing it's a bunch. I use SK Standard Plus or Wolf Match Extra and buy it by the case.

For my type of shooting, I almost think that practicing with the .22 can be better than shooting the real thing. The recoil is so mild that it really lets you see any error in position. If it doesn't recoil back to the dead center of the target after each shot, something is wrong with my position. For me at least, shooting full-power centerfire rounds(even .223) can mask some positional errors because I will expect some degree of deviation off the target as a natural result of the recoil. It can be easy to miss problems with positions in the middle of a match or just try to fight through them because there isn't much time. This rarely results in good scores and the more I can teach myself to not do it, the better.

The WOA model uses the Army M-261 bolt and mags, just like the CLE.

Happy Thanksgiving,
Erik

 

[steve123]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

Happy Thanksgiving to you too Erik.

It's interesting that you mention using a 22 to help develop and solidify your form.

I've found the same thing practicing for, and shooting Field Target air rifle, where the smallest mistake is amplified.

Thanks again for all the info!

 

[dlouie87]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

Thank you Erik.

I wonder what brand/type of bolt they are using? It's probably not a ciener bolt. I have a spikes st-22 (not trying to make it a precision rig like yours but..) and i was just looking for different options to upgrade.

 

[athhud]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

A CMMG .22 conversion in my 20" 5.56 upper easily averages .5" groups at 50yds with a variety of sub-sonic ammo. I would be delusional to think it could ever hold .25" groups, but it meets the needs you require. I certainly understand if you just want to build a .22 upper, but if you just want a shooter, a $150 conversion will get you damn close.

 

[steve123]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

Still pondering...

On a side note I went 22 shooting yesterday. I was given a partial box of ELEY 10x to try out. Got the Ruger race rifle out, loaded the 10x up and shot the smallest group I had ever shot out of the rifle. Less than .3 vertical and .4 wide at 50Y. Not only that but I watched through the spotting scope as my fiend put 6-7 shots on the same splat at 178Y.

Notice that I removed it off my sig line

 

[tiNdvenTFHwMdqKW]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

Ammo makes all the difference with .22 accuracy. You usually do get what you pay for. The trick is finding the cheapest type that works well in your gun.

 

[Hellbender]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

I have a CLE and it will shoot in the .2's at 50 yards with the right ammo.

 

[steve123]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PBinWA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ammo makes all the difference with .22 accuracy. You usually do get what you pay for. The trick is finding the cheapest type that works well in your gun. </div></div>

I usually use Wolf MT which does pretty darn good but the 10x was twice as accurate albeit only one group.

 

[steve123]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hellbender</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a CLE and it will shoot in the .2's at 50 yards with the right ammo. </div></div>

Ok that wet's my appetite

but how's reliability been ?

Thanks.

 

[steve123]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

Must be 22 shooting season or something.

I got my 52B out today with irons, that thing really hammers too. Put 5 into a oblong hole at 45Y or so. I'm trading it next week for a Anschutz MPR and almost having second thoughts. I just don't have occasion to shoot it at smallbore matches like I had originally intended.

 

[Hellbender]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

Steve...

Per my PM, I put a lighter hammer spring from Brownells in my RRA 2 stage trigger, and it is 100% with standard velocity match ammo. HV ammo may work fine with a stock trigger pack, I don't know, I have several other 22 AR's I use for blasting cheap ammo.

If you call CLE and talk to them, you can get an upper built well under $1K.

A lot of the price is their handguard system, sights, etc, etc. set up for the Highpower guys.

I ordered one w/o a handguard and I'm thinking it was in the $700 range a couple of years ago.

 

[bunsen27]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Must be 22 shooting season or something.

I got my 52B out today with irons, that thing really hammers too. Put 5 into a oblong hole at 45Y or so. I'm trading it next week for a Anschutz MPR and almost having second thoughts. I just don't have occasion to shoot it at smallbore matches like I had originally intended. </div></div>

Don't do it!! I have both an Anshutz 64MPR and Win 52B Target and would hands down sell the Anshutz and a lot of my other rifles before even considering parting with the 52B. I actually purchased a 52D Target on Sunday (awaiting delivery) and if it's a shooter like the 52B I'm likely selling the Anz 64. EGW makes a nice scope mount for the 52's if you want to go that route. Is your 52B a target or sporter?

 

[BigJimFish]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't do it!! I have both an Anshutz 64MPR and Win 52B Target and would hands down sell the Anshutz and a lot of my other rifles before even considering parting with the 52B.</div></div>

I wouldn't trade a 52 for a basic 64 action Anschutz either.

 

[steve123]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bunsen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Must be 22 shooting season or something.

I got my 52B out today with irons, that thing really hammers too. Put 5 into a oblong hole at 45Y or so. I'm trading it next week for a Anschutz MPR and almost having second thoughts. I just don't have occasion to shoot it at smallbore matches like I had originally intended. </div></div>

Don't do it!! I have both an Anshutz 64MPR and Win 52B Target and would hands down sell the Anshutz and a lot of my other rifles before even considering parting with the 52B. I actually purchased a 52D Target on Sunday (awaiting delivery) and if it's a shooter like the 52B I'm likely selling the Anz 64. EGW makes a nice scope mount for the 52's if you want to go that route. Is your 52B a target or sporter? </div></div>

It's possible I might regret that decision but if I get a hankerin at some other point in time I'll might get another 52. I like trying out different guns and can't afford to have them all at one time, LOL.

The truth is I want to do a custom build on a nice 22 with a adjustable cheek and lop and just didn't feel good about modifying that old 52. I also have a flare for the modern look as well.

At some point I'd also like to build a trainer based off either the Blackops 605 or 40x to mimic my go-to tactical rifle.

 

[steve123]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hellbender</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Steve...

Per my PM, I put a lighter hammer spring from Brownells in my RRA 2 stage trigger, and it is 100% with standard velocity match ammo. HV ammo may work fine with a stock trigger pack, I don't know, I have several other 22 AR's I use for blasting cheap ammo.

If you call CLE and talk to them, you can get an upper built well under $1K.

A lot of the price is their handguard system, sights, etc, etc. set up for the Highpower guys.

I ordered one w/o a handguard and I'm thinking it was in the $700 range a couple of years ago.
</div></div>

Thanks HB! I'll call em.

 

[bunsen27]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's possible I might regret that decision but if I get a hankerin at some other point in time I'll might get another 52. I like trying out different guns and can't afford to have them all at one time, LOL.

The truth is I want to do a custom build on a nice 22 with a adjustable cheek and lop and just didn't feel good about modifying that old 52. I also have a flare for the modern look as well.

At some point I'd also like to build a trainer based off either the Blackops 605 or 40x to mimic my go-to tactical rifle. </div></div>

If you want to have an adjustable cheek piece and LOP Boyds makes a Win 52 stock for $75 that you could shade tree gunsmith to your hearts content or have a pro do the work.

http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/WIN-52-STK-W-SI-p/300-195.htm

Rattle can or Duracoat it in your favorite tacticool colors and patterns preserving the factory stock.

 

[Belisarius]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

This is awesome!!! Good shooting!!!<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Erud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here you go. First pic is of the rifle and second is of 4 consecutive groups I fired with it recently. 50 yards, rapid fire(10 shots in 60 seconds with magazine change) from NRA sitting position with sling and iron sights. No rests, benches, bags or bipods. The only time I have ever had it on bags was the very first time I shot it and it was very easy to put 10 rounds in under 1/4" at 50.

Regards,
Erik

</div></div>

 

[steve123]

Re: Precision AR 22lr upper questions.

Thanks for the tip Bunsen but the 52 is in the brown truck already. The guy who's getting it has a pre64 M70 that needs a little brother