Precision of thrown charges with Varget?

[Grump]

In the .308 range of charges?

To kick it off, I ran an old Lyman 55 "Ideal" measure through a bunch of charges and found that knocking the handle just at the powder pickup stop was MUCH more consistent than using the little door-knocker device when the drum is open to the powder reservoir. Over 15 charges, and the spread was +/- 0.2 grains for a total spread of 0.4. With the typical OCW load, that's plenty close for my purposes.

Using the knocker gave an ES of 1.1 grains. They averaged .3 grain heavier, but about every 8 charges or so, one would come in light, and one was really light. Was concerned about lone aberrations, so I went up to 25 charges thrown and weighed.

Off to check the Dillon next. When doing 4064 loads last month, tapping the body next to the powder slide at pickup position *seemed* to help consistency. Will confirm.

All measures I've tried are within 0.1 or less with spherical powders. I just wish they were less temperature-sensitive. Gets HOT here.

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: Precision of thrown charges with Varget?

I think most weigh each charge.

 

[Falar]

Re: Precision of thrown charges with Varget?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kick-Ass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think most weigh each charge. </div></div>

That is why I love the Chargemaster.

 

[trobertson5-0]

Re: Precision of thrown charges with Varget?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kick-Ass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think most weigh each charge. </div></div>

I did too,until I realized that unless I was doing full bench rest prep and going crazy OCD(weighing primers,bullets, and cases) that the variance in the other components cancelled out the weighed charges. Now I weigh every tenth charge to make sure nothing slipped and throw the rest. I can tell no difference. Pull a box of FGMM or M118LR and weigh each charge and check the variance,it will make your OCD flare up! Yet both these loads are proven performers.

If weighing charges helps your loads or makes you more sure of them God bless you and have fun,I'll just throw mine.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Precision of thrown charges with Varget?

It's an exercise in logic, rather than engineering.

If an error is possible, it cannot be ruled out; therefore, to ensure the certainty of consistency, one is compelled to weigh all charges. Don't assume..., <span style="font-style: italic">know</span>...!

If you don't <span style="font-style: italic">know</span> the charges are exact, you have no way of reliably identifying the origin of a flyer.

I'm a great proponent of handloading shortcuts, but I weigh my charges. Otherwise, I might just as well buy my ammo, it's the same kind of crapshoot.

Greg

 

[oughtsix]

Re: Precision of thrown charges with Varget?

I throw charges for the .45 acp. But for a bolt gun, greg said it all. The point of hand loading is to have something better than you could buy.

 

[trobertson5-0]

Re: Precision of thrown charges with Varget?

I will never know if the flyer was caused by a slightly higher or lower charge weight or a slightly hotter primer or a different internal capacity of the case. It is as likely for me to be as a result of misreading a 10 MPH wind as a 5MPH or a 700 meter range as 680.

I went the full OCD route and it didn't show a difference,FOR ME. Even weighing charges my chronograph couldn't show me a difference from 44.0 grains of Varget to 44.2 grains of Varget. It was simply within it's listed error margin(+- 10%). I have no doubt that it is better on paper and in computer graphics but with ME shooting the rifle I will be the weak link,not a thrown charge.

I don't doubt for better shooters or those who shoot under set range and wind conditions there may be a slight difference and more power to you if you are those folks. I am not.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Precision of thrown charges with Varget?

When developing a load for accuracy, it is the tendency of a match load (I prefer to think of it as a matched load, i.e. matched to barrel harmonics) to be more tolerant of load variations.

No matter how precise a charge is metered/weighed, there is always still some difference in barrel transit time. If there wasn't, then any load, if truly consistent, would be an accurate one, and we know this is not the case. We are looking for that point in the barrel's oscillation profile where the differences have the least consequence.

The role of charge weight precision is to limit those transit time variances to a level where they don't exceed the allowable range dictated by favorable harmonics. Good precision makes a difference, but even the most precise charge weight regulation does not equate to abolute consistency in transit times.

Perfection does not exist. Fortunately, it doesn't need to.

Greg

 

[steve123]

Re: Precision of thrown charges with Varget?

NineHotel...Your missing your chance to tell him about the RFD powder measure????

Steve

 

[Grump]

Re: Precision of thrown charges with Varget?

I'm not really interested in any of those automated charge-weighing devices until they make one with four or five parallel feeds so it can keep up with at least 200 charges per hour.

Didn't the US Palma team load almost all of its ammo on a Dillon 550 about 10 years ago?

 

[memilanuk]

Re: Precision of thrown charges with Varget?

They did (on two 1050s)... here's some info archived from rec.guns about that particular subject - read it yourself and decide if you still think it's a good idea.

http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/reload_multistage_press.html