Precision rifle on a progressive press

[Dai Bando]

It seems like I see this asked about every week, so I figured I'd try and do a definitive description of how I do things on my 550's and the guys who do likewise can put in their 2 cents and maybe we could have something worthy of a sticky.

Obviously there is more than one way to skin a cat, but this is the fastest way I have found to make spectacular ammo.


1. 100 rd lots- I can't say I'd want to do batches any smaller and I love the MTM boxes. MTM 100 rd box

2. Clean - I use a vibratory with corn cob media and a little bit of Flitz polish. Flitz Polish

3. Anneal - I anneal every time with a Bench Source before I make the first run on the 550. I find this makes for a consistent 2 thou shoulder bump and consistent neck tension.

4. Lube - I absolutely love the 99% alcohol and Lanolin concoction the 6.5 Guys recommend. Lanolin Lube

5. First pass on 550. I use both Whidden floating toolheads and the stock ones with the addition of o-rings to float the sizing and seater dies. I also have modified my toolheads with Uniquetek's Toolhead Clamp Kit. These help with seating depth and shoulder bump inconsistencies. I used to tighten these up when I had a piece of brass in the sizer to make sure things were concentric, but I haven't seen any more run out by just tightening them to start with. UniquTek Toolhead Clamp Kit


Dillon Stage #1. Lee Universal Decapping die. I had to modify one for the 6 Dasher small flash holes. Lee Decapping Die

Dillon Stage #2. Full length sizer set up for 2-3 thousandths shoulder bump with no expander ball and a bushing that results in .003" neck tension. Here's a couple good videos that explain things in more detail. How to remove firing pin How to size brass How to figure out bushing size

Dillon Stage #3. Mandrel die. I use a Sinclair Carbide TURNING Mandrel to set final neck tension. The TURNING Mandrel will result in .002" neck tension. As you'll notice above, I use the bushing to set necks .003" under and then I open the neck up .001" for a total of .002" constriction. There has been a lot of discussion about these, so check out the links. Mandrel Die discussion More Mandrel Die discussion



6. Trim - I trim every time on a Giraud as it's super easy to do especially after the first trimming because it's removing so little.

7. Clean - I run the brass back through the vibe tumbler to remove lube. 20-30 minutes is all.

8. Second pass on 550


Dillon Stage #1. Lee Universal Decapping die and prime cases. The decapping die clears out any media that might have gotten lodged in the flash holes.

Dillon Stage #2. Dump powder. You'll need a Dillon AT 500 powder die, plastic funnel and caliber specific powder funnel from your caliber conversion kit. This is the easiest stage to mess up. You have to make sure the press is raised before you dump the powder! Fx-120i and Auto Trickler/Charge is a huge time saver. AT 500 Funnel

Dillon Stage #3. Seat bullets with floated seating die.

At this point, I remove each cartridge and place it in the MTM boxes rather than let them fall into the tray.


Obviously, when doing the initial set up of dies, I'm checking the concentricity at the sizing, mandrel and seater stages.

I hold less than .001" run out with this set up without much fuss.

Hope this helps answer some of the questions that keep coming up.

It sure has allowed me to shoot really good ammo with minimal time in the reloading room.

 

[CJS-6.5]

Very good info. Volume reloading actually results in less screw ups, because it's less steps then doing 10 sets.

 

[tylerw02]

I had asked this question yesterday, actually. Perhaps my post inspired. I’ve been using my progressive for the past six months for precision rifle ammunition. Thinking through, your process has been nearly what I considered ideal, though I don’t necessarily have the same gear.

I use a Hornady LNL AP. Process varies but this is my normal process. I try to do one pass.

First, I tumble with corn cob and Lyman polishing compound or Flitz.

Station #1 is a universal decapod die from Lyman.
I reprime on the down stroke.

Station #2 is a Redding competition neck sizing bushing die, no decapping rod. I use a TiN bushing to size down 0.003”.

Station #3 is Redding S-type bushing die without a bushing, or decapping pin. I use a carbide floating expander button Essentially, it’s being used as a body die and expander. I bump the shoulder 0.002”.

Station #4 is a Hornady funnel. I currently use an RCBS Chargemaster to throw charges at this time.

Station #5 is a Redding competition seating die or a Forster Benchrest seating die.

Currently, I trim PRN and manually anneal every third during. My trimming system is the RCBS motorized trimmer with three-way cutting head. I get very consistent case mouths, uniform chamfer, and debur.

I have experienced excellent accuracy thus far. This is a quick, easy loading process. The slowest part is the RCBS Chargemaster. I’ve been getting SDs in the single digits and ES in the teens.

I’m considering running two passes through the press and switching to a Sinclair die/mandrel for expanding. I also plan to switch to an Auto Trickler system as funds allow.

I measured run-out on my loaded rounds for the first time earlier today and averaged 0.002” on a 10% sample.

 

[Dai Bando]

I'd much prefer to do everything with the fl sizer and skip the neck only die. Once you start measuring run out I bet you come to the same conclusion.

 

[tylerw02]

Absolutely. Considering ditching the neck die, putting the bushing in the FL and using the Sinclair die/expander mandrel. Perhaps I can go from 0.002” to 0.001” runout.

Groups right now are 0.3s to 0.6s. I’m all about enhancing the process even for minor improvements if it doesn’t add steps.

 

[Bulldog10]

I think you’ll see much difference in group size going from .002 to .001 runout

 

[BullzeyeNJ]

Thanks Dai Bando ! That is a very helpful and informative post. A clear, concise recipe on precision reloading on a progressive press.

 

[chrismartin]

I do just about exactly the same as Dai Bando does except:

1. I use a 650XL
2. I use a dedicated tool head with a universal decapping die
3. I decap before I clean. This allows the cleaning process to clean the primer pockets
4. I wet tumble to clean
5. I use imperial sizing wax rather than lanolin based lube (Alpha brass is rather thick and tough and I had better success with wax)

I have three tool heads:
1. Universal decap
2. Sizing tool head (with floating positions the Whidden FL sizing with neck bushing and the neck turning mandrel die)
3. Charging and seating tool head (I don't use a floating position here because the Forster micrometer die already floats the seating chamber)

So, my process ends up almost identical to Bando's...

1. Decap all brass (Tool head 1)
2. Clean (wet tumble)
3. inspect and anneal
4. Lube and size (Tool head 2)
5. clean lube off post-sizing
6. trim
4. Prime, charge and seat (Tool head 3) (Charging is done the same, with a Chargemaster and the funnel die due to stick powders that I typically use)

If I'm doing load work ups (not large batches), I hand prime, charge with a hand funnel and loading block and hand seat one-by-one using the same press, I just place the brass into the seating position by hand rather than running it though the Dillon. Since the seating die is on the outside position, seating by hand like this is as easy as a single stage press.

 

[Dai Bando]

Chris,

I recently got a new die that chattered pretty bad and needed to be polished. I was using Imperial Sizing wax and couldn't get it to stop. I ended up spraying cases with the lanolin and I'll be damned if that didn't fix it. You oughta give it a try. I think it does a better job and is way easier to apply.

 

[Fig]

8. Second pass on 550

Do I understand that correctly that you run them all through twice?

 

[chrismartin]

Chris,

I recently got a new die that chattered pretty bad and needed to be polished. I was using Imperial Sizing wax and couldn't get it to stop. I ended up spraying cases with the lanolin and I'll be damned if that didn't fix it. You oughta give it a try. I think it does a better job and is way easier to apply.

I will try it. I haven't messed with the lanolin stuff in a while.

One other thing...

I added a flag to the primer tube that reminds me that I shouldn't drop powder when the shell plate is down. It raises out of the way when the ram is up. Keeps me from dumping powder all over the place. It's also out of the way for all the other calibers I load, so I don't need to remove it or anything. It's just there.

 

[Dai Bando]

Do I understand that correctly that you run them all through twice?

Yes.

 

[chrismartin]

Do I understand that correctly that you run them all through twice?

In my case, three times. However, the first pass is just decapping before cleaning, so it's really fast, no resistance. You can run them through as fast as you can pull the handle.

The reason for the multiple passes after that is that you need to clean the lube off the cases before loading and you have to do other case-prep items (like trimming after resizing) before you can load the cases up.

 

[Fig]

I'm familiar. I have a Mike Dillon upgraded Star reloading machine from before he was putting his name on them, and as soon as he did start building his own my dad bought one of the first ones. So, I'm a second generation Blue fan and not a hater.
I'm just not convinced it's so much faster and better to modify a 550 for precision reloading than it is to use a Forster. Obviously I've used Dillon my entire life, and only Forster for the last five or so years.

 

[Dai Bando]

I have had issues with 20 practical and .223AI cases tipping over on the Bench Source because the primer has bit of a splash from the sloppy fp hole on the Bighorn. The cure is obviously knocking out primers which means a third pass. Takes 8-10 minutes, so not that big a deal, but I have been thinking about annealing after the sizing step.

I know a lot of the BR guys do that and claim it gives good results, so I'm gonna give it a go next time.

 

[Dai Bando]

I'm familiar. I have a Mike Dillon upgraded Star reloading machine from before he was putting his name on them, and as soon as he did start building his own my dad bought one of the first ones. So, I'm a second generation Blue fan and not a hater.
I'm just not convinced it's so much faster and better to modify a 550 for precision reloading than it is to use a Forster. Obviously I've used Dillon my entire life, and only Forster for the last five or so years.

Let's put this one to rest.

I've gotta do a run of 100 .260 loads next week.

You up for it?

 

[Sheldon N]

I'm just not convinced it's so much faster and better to modify a 550 for precision reloading than it is to use a Forster.

As to faster, it's two main things.

First is feed rate. Even if you were only doing one process like a traditional FL die with decapping pin and expander ball, the Dillon can be fed and the handle pulled at about twice the rate of a single stage press. Less handling the brass because the feeding is easy and cases auto eject into a bin, etc. Stroke rate is also faster when you use a top down/expander mandrel process because you don't need to be careful at all on the upstroke and can lift the handle as fast as you want.

Second is priming being combined with the powder feeding and bullet seating step on a Dillon. Saves a full pass through the brass to hand prime everything. That's another 10-20 minutes per 100 cases saved.

I wouldn't say "better" results, rather just equivalent results in much less time. My prior workflow with a single stage included separate steps for decapping and hand priming, so the real world improvement for me works out to about 35 minutes faster per 100 pieces of match ammo.

 

[tylerw02]

I did a little experimenting with the Sinclair mandrel today, as mentioned above and doing neck and body sizing in a single stage. It reduced my runout to 0.001” from 0.0015-0.002”. I also tried my old process on a few pieces of brass within Hornady One Shot and with the old setup. It also reduced the runout to about the same level. Perhaps lubeication method is as important.

Additionally, I timed myself loaded a complete cartridge (of course, as I said above I don’t anneal every firing or trim every firing—I also have found that tumbling lubricant off is unnecessary). I can load a cartridge, while it off with a rag with a bit of Flitz and put it in an MTM box in about 30 seconds a round. This is straight from tumbler to MTM box.

Using a single stage, I must tumble, lube, size (assuming one step), expand, wipe, prime, charge and seat. Not counting setup time, that is four times in and out of the press at about 8 seconds per run plus 30 seconds for the Chargemaster and about 8 seconds to wipe the lube off and put it in the box.

With the progressive there is no setup time.

One way to look at it is I can load 2-3 rounds of equal quality ammunition on my LNL to one round on the single stage. By the time I dick around with setup it’s not even close.

They are on to something with these Progressive presses.

 

[tylerw02]

I should add, I have two Hornady LNL APs. One I keep set up with a case feeder and set up for bulk 9mm/.223. The other I have set up for rifle stuff. Primer systems, shell plates, and dies can be completely switched over in about five minutes and return to where they were.

 

[Hunter Sykes]

Moving my prep process to a under used 650 has been the single most time saving thing I have done and with no adverse effect to accuracy.