Rifle Scopes Premier and Rings

[Addicted]

I have an Armalite AR-10 Super SASS, and a Tikka T3 Tactical on the way. Both in .308. I am new to the rifle world and to scopes. I am of the opinion that you buy the best equipment and cry once. I try to live by that within my budget. I have almost convinced myself that the scope to get is the Premier Heritage. I am looking for something I can use to shoot mainly from 100 to 300 yards (as that is what most ranges around me offer) but with the ability to easily reach out to 1k if the opportunity presents itself (I believe it will). This will be almost always for the range.

My first question is which Premier to get for my purpose, the 3 - 15 x 50 or the 5 – 25 x 56? My second question is whether there is a viable option in rings for this that could be mounted to the scope w/ a picatinny rail attachment that has a throw lever? I would want to be able to easily switch between the AR-10 and T3, understanding I would have to zero the scope again.

I appreciate your advice.

 

[clmayfield]

Re: Premier and Rings

Is this for hunting, target shooting, or true tactical engagements?

Mine is primarily for hunting and some target shooting with similar ranges and I went with 5-25 X 56... mainly because my eyes suck and I decided that I did not really need to go down to 3X very often. If you feel like you can live with 5X at the minimum end, 5-25 is attractive.

 

[usmc7980]

Re: Premier and Rings

Well for being new to rifle your spoiling yourself. There are plenty of rings with QD levers but you may not find them for the tube of the Premiere. I would look at GG&G or LaRue. Any picatinny rail will be fine

 

[LibertyOptics]

Re: Premier and Rings

The American Defense Manufacturing Recon-S mount now offers 34mm ring options. It provides 22mm of lift from the top of the rail to the bottom of the scope tube. These are very nice mounts, and a Hide member here has purchased this and the Premier together from us and he'll have them next week, so hopefully we'll hear a field report.

http://www.americandefensemanufacturing.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=11

Scott

 

[usmc7980]

Re: Premier and Rings

and Scott comes through once again

 

[Addicted]

Re: Premier and Rings

Thanks Scott! That is what I was looking for exactly. I would like to see it mounted and/or the other hide member's thoughts once he gets it.

Carter, these will be primarily a range guns. Eventually, some tactical engagements.

 

[gunsmithcat]

Re: Premier and Rings

about freakign time they make 34mm rings.!

 

[clmayfield]

Re: Premier and Rings

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Addicted</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Scott! That is what I was looking for exactly. I would like to see it mounted and/or the other hide member's thoughts once he gets it.

Carter, these will be primarily a range guns. Eventually, some tactical engagements.</div></div>

I love FFP, but for a range gun, you are probably better off with SFP. FFP is great for ranging very quickly and doing holdovers in a pinch. Basically, for field work. (For me, in the hunting field, for tactical folks, in the battle field). If you are shooting groups at targets of known range, SFP might serve better.

But if you must get a Premier, I think the 5-25X will serve you better at the range as you don't need the wider field of vision at 3X and the reticle will be smaller relative to the target, helping with precision shooting. The only issue with higher mag might be increased mirage.

 

[LibertyOptics]

Re: Premier and Rings

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
But if you must get a Premier, I think the 5-25X will serve you better at the range as you don't need the wider field of vision at 3X and <span style="font-style: italic">the reticle will be smaller relative to the target,</span> helping with precision shooting. </div></div>

If I'm not mistaken, this would not apply with FFP, only SFP. The reticle subtensions are the same in the 3-15x and 5-25x at all powers (?)

Scott

 

[Ratbert]

Re: Premier and Rings

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Addicted</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My second question is whether there is a viable option in rings for this that could be mounted to the scope w/ a picatinny rail attachment that has a throw lever? I would want to be able to easily switch between the AR-10 and T3, understanding I would have to zero the scope again.

I appreciate your advice.
</div></div>

Pretty much any QD mount that fits properly on an AR-10 is going to sit VERY VERRRRRYYYY high on a T3. On a T3 you will want to use (most likely) rings somewhere in the 0.92" - 0.97" range (depending on if you want to use the PR front lens cap). Even with this you'll still probably need a stock pack or some little bit of help on the T3.

Conversely on an Ar-10 you'll need to get that scope at LEAST 1.2" high and all but a couple QD mounts are setup for more like 1.4-1.5" high. Add to that the fact that it's 34mm, and so there are a lot fewer options, and you'll see that QD probably isn't the way to go.

Consider doing this:

Get a badger 20 MOA riser rail for your AR10. Then get a set of Seekins low (or high, it's only 0.05" difference) rings. The Badger will raise everything about 0.5" so you'll send up with right around 1.42" (same as A2 iron sights) on the AR-10 and pretty much as low as you can go on the T3. Then just get a dedicated 55in/lb torque wrench with the little star bit in it and you can switch back and forth in about 30-45 seconds. Not truely "QD", but I think it will do everything you want.

 

[Addicted]

Re: Premier and Rings

Thanks Ratbert. That is great info.

 

[ArmedAgent]

Re: Premier and Rings

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The American Defense Manufacturing Recon-S mount now offers 34mm ring options. It provides 22mm of lift from the top of the rail to the bottom of the scope tube. <span style="font-weight: bold">These are very nice mounts, and a Hide member here has purchased this and the Premier together from us and he'll have them next week, so hopefully we'll hear a field report.</span>

http://www.americandefensemanufacturing.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=11

Scott

</div></div>

Hope I can get some info out after next weekend if all the stars line up for me.

 

[clmayfield]

Re: Premier and Rings

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
But if you must get a Premier, I think the 5-25X will serve you better at the range as you don't need the wider field of vision at 3X and <span style="font-style: italic">the reticle will be smaller relative to the target,</span> helping with precision shooting. </div></div>

If I'm not mistaken, this would not apply with FFP, only SFP. The reticle subtensions are the same in the 3-15x and 5-25x at all powers (?)

Scott</div></div>

I haven't seen the 5-25X, but I assumed the reticle of the 5-25X would be the same size at 25X as the 3-15X would be at 15X. So relative to the target, if you took the 5-25X down to 15X, it would have a smaller reticle than the 3-15X at 15X magnification. I haven't looked through it, so I don't know, but that is an assumption that I made... so the reticle is relatively smaller in the 5-25X.

You have looked through both, so you would know better than I.

 

[philodox]

Re: Premier and Rings

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
But if you must get a Premier, I think the 5-25X will serve you better at the range as you don't need the wider field of vision at 3X and <span style="font-style: italic">the reticle will be smaller relative to the target,</span> helping with precision shooting. </div></div>

If I'm not mistaken, this would not apply with FFP, only SFP. The reticle subtensions are the same in the 3-15x and 5-25x at all powers (?)

Scott </div></div>

The reticle would be same same size at 10x on the 3-15x as it would be at 10x on the 5-25x. The scale of the reticle is the same. If it wasn't, the 1 mil mark on the 3-15x would be smaller than the 1 mil mark on the 5-25x. Make sense?

I prefer, and own, the Heritage that is 3-15x with the Gen 2 XR reticle. I estimate range using the highest power always. It's much easier to get a finer mil reading. IMHO 15x is good up to about 1250yds.

Also, at 15x max power, I'd like to mention that you don't "see" reticle bounce from your heartbeat and breathing as much, which is natural in all shooters (even though we like to say we're good enough to totally eliminate it). You shouldn't fight the bounce anyhow, it's there.. press the "I believe" button and just roll with it. At 25x that bounce will be far more pronounced and most shooters worry about it more than anything else, especially when you're fatigued and your heart rate is going. Just something to think about.

 

[clmayfield]

Re: Premier and Rings

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1505scouts</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
But if you must get a Premier, I think the 5-25X will serve you better at the range as you don't need the wider field of vision at 3X and <span style="font-style: italic">the reticle will be smaller relative to the target,</span> helping with precision shooting. </div></div>

If I'm not mistaken, this would not apply with FFP, only SFP. The reticle subtensions are the same in the 3-15x and 5-25x at all powers (?)

Scott </div></div>

The reticle would be same same size at 10x on the 3-15x as it would be at 10x on the 5-25x. The scale of the reticle is the same. If it wasn't, the 1 mil mark on the 3-15x would be smaller than the 1 mil mark on the 5-25x. Make sense?

I prefer, and own, the Heritage that is 3-15x with the Gen 2 XR reticle. I estimate range using the highest power always. It's much easier to get a finer mil reading. IMHO 15x is good up to about 1250yds.

Also, at 15x max power, I'd like to mention that you don't "see" reticle bounce from your heartbeat and breathing as much, which is natural in all shooters (even though we like to say we're good enough to totally eliminate it). You shouldn't fight the bounce anyhow, it's there.. press the "I believe" button and just roll with it. At 25x that bounce will be far more pronounced and most shooters worry about it more than anything else, especially when you're fatigued and your heart rate is going. Just something to think about.</div></div>

Doh... you got me. That's right. It wouldn't work any other way (without a different design).