Pressure to resize new brass VS once shot

[Jetson]

I reloaded some 6.5 Creedmoor with a a short action expander mandrel. I used new Lapua brass with Imperial sizing lube. The resizing process with the new brass was very smooth.

I annealed my once shot brass after cleaning with corn cob media. The pressure and required lube to resize are much greater than sizing new brass. I noticed the inside of the neck was dark and not shiny like the new brass. So the question is this normal. Thank you for any input.

 

[Bacarrat]

Why are you resizing new brass? At most, I expand the necks with a mandrel to get the necks perfectly straight. But yes, that should be normal since the fired cases have expanded vs virgin brass that has been sized down.

 

[mmlook]

either
1. sizing the neck too much
2. mandrel/neck is dirty, or not lubed properly
3. annealing sucks, and you're actually hardening the brass

 

[Jetson]

Not sizing the neck yet. The inside of the brass is dark like carbon buildup. If corn cob media won’t make the inside of the neck cleaner what will. Should the inside of the neck look shiny like new brass.

 

[918v]

either
1. sizing the neck too much
2. mandrel/neck is dirty, or not lubed properly
3. annealing sucks, and you're actually hardening the brass

annealing does not harden the brass

 

[918v]

I reloaded some 6.5 Creedmoor with a a short action expander mandrel. I used new Lapua brass with Imperial sizing lube. The resizing process with the new brass was very smooth.

I annealed my once shot brass after cleaning with corn cob media. The pressure and required lube to resize are much greater than sizing new brass. I noticed the inside of the neck was dark and not shiny like the new brass. So the question is this normal. Thank you for any input.

if you want the inside of the neck clean like new brass then wet tumble in stainless media and an appropriate cocktail of soap and acid

as far as sizing effort goes, with new brass youre only sizing the neck with fired brass youre sizing the whole case

 

[Bacarrat]

Cleaning with corn cob media is good enough, a little carbon build up in the necks will not affect anything. There are a lot more to worry about then how clean inside a case is.

 

[mmlook]

annealing does not harden the brass

if you dont get it hot enough, it will harden

 

[mmlook]

Not sizing the neck yet. The inside of the brass is dark like carbon buildup. If corn cob media won’t make the inside of the neck cleaner what will. Should the inside of the neck look shiny like new brass.

just realized you are talking about sizing, not mandrel

no surprise if you are comparing FL sizing new brass vs. fired brass.

new Lapua brass will be about 0.003-0.005" undersized on the body

 

[supercorndogs]

if you dont get it hot enough, it will harden

Brass gets hard from working and soft from heat.

 

[918v]

if you dont get it hot enough, it will harden

Bullshit

 

[KnowNothing256]

Interesting, seems like it gets a little harder first:

Annealing Brass Question

If I have loaded some 243 brass twice, some four times and some six times and I anneal all of them will each have the same neck tension or will it vary depending on how often its been reloaded?

www.snipershide.com

Probably not enough to cause the OP's issue though.

 

[KnowNothing256]

OP, question: You said you're using a mandrel, but the "pressure and required lube to resize are much greater." Are you talking about the force required to resize (shrink) the case, or the mandrel step which typically occurs AFTER the resizing step?

 

[Feniks Technologies]

Interesting, seems like it gets a little harder first:

Annealing Brass Question

If I have loaded some 243 brass twice, some four times and some six times and I anneal all of them will each have the same neck tension or will it vary depending on how often its been reloaded?

www.snipershide.com

Probably not enough to cause the OP's issue though.

No. As already stated, brass can only harden via working.

 

[Feniks Technologies]

if you dont get it hot enough, it will harden

Physically impossible.

 

[308pirate]

Not sizing the neck yet. The inside of the brass is dark like carbon buildup. If corn cob media won’t make the inside of the neck cleaner what will. Should the inside of the neck look shiny like new brass.

stop worrying about cleaning the inside of the case.

 

[Mike Casselton]

And, there ^^^^^ is the voice of reason.

Too many people expect miracles with their process and most don't even understand what they are doing.

Get off of YouTube for a while.

Go buy the Hornady loading manual and read its instructions on how to do basic reloading.

Start over with that information and add processes as you gain more knowledge of the what and why of things.

 

[Steel head]

Not sizing the neck yet. The inside of the brass is dark like carbon buildup. If corn cob media won’t make the inside of the neck cleaner what will. Should the inside of the neck look shiny like new brass.

What bad things is that carbon layer doing to you?/
What benefits are there to super clean brass?

New brass is probably barely touching or moving from the sizing die.
Fired brass has obviously expanded so it’s getting shmushed more hence more effort

 

[308pirate]

Start over with that information and add processes as you gain more knowledge of the what and why of things.

This is the basic problem with the instant information generation.

They know a lot and understand nothing.

 

[Steel head]

This is the basic problem with the instant information generation.

They know a lot and understand nothing.

 

[Mike Casselton]

I refuse to be one of the reloaders that completes a cartridge every 37 minutes.
Too much wasted effort with zero benefit to most shooters.

They are much better off learning to shoot properly with decent ammunition, instead of wasting time and effort on reloads when most aren't capable of shooting to the degree of accuracy they are trying to attain.

Damn, that ^^^ was a run-on sentence...

 

[Jetson]

Thanx for all the replies…it makes sense that fired brass will require more pressure to resize than new brass that has not been fire formed.

 

[KnowNothing256]

Thanx for all the replies…it makes sense that fired brass will require more pressure to resize than new brass that has not been fire formed.

You never answered my question, but here’s what I think is happening:

Your new brass is basically already sized. The FL sizing die has very little work to do on new brass, it’s basically just squeezing down on the tiny bit of spring-back that happened when the case was originally drawn and sized. However, once the case is fired, the brass expands, and so your FL sizing die actually has to move the brass much farther, into the plastic region, not just the elastic zone. The work required to size the fired case is your “normal.”

 

[Jetson]

Sorry I missed your question. Mandrel and full length sizing together. I agree with your assumption KnowNothing 256.

 

[Shoots 700's]

if you are in fact resizing new brass you may be over working the fired brass. I mandrel new brass and shoot it. Then set the die off of the fired case.

 

[ArTeeKay]

This is the basic problem with the instant information generation.

They know a lot and understand nothing.

I still fall victim to this fairly regularly. Dunning-Kruger is real, and it takes a consistent, concerted effort to remind myself that right about when I feel like I've got a good handle on a topic is exactly when I'm probably just starting to understand the basics, forget about being competent.

To answer the OP, yes, that's normal, nothing unexpected there. Keep doing what you're doing. No reason to change things drastically, unless you're not getting good results on target.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

I use a Whidden gauge on a sample of several fired cases to get a headspace measurement and then resize to bump the shoulder back 0.002 inches. Thus far, over three 6.5CM barrels, I've found the reading on fired cases to be a consistent 0.0-0.001 on my gauge. To push the shoulder back appropriately, the bottom of my size die is in light contact with the shell plate.

As has been stated above, there's no need to shiny-clean the case mouth (or primer pocket). Some people do, with stainless pins or whatever. I've been perfectly happy with corncob media and a shot or two of Lyman case polish in a four-decades-old vibratory tumbler. Ninety minutes, clean&shiny where it counts.