Ok I know I'm going to get hit with the don't buy bdc reticle. I wanted a small fast compact DMR rifle in 308. I have a dpms g2 with ranier ultra match barrel in it. This rifle runs like a champ! Not 1 ff or eject. Sub moa with no effort and is not picky with ammo. I bought the new primary arms glx 6x24 hud dmr reticle. The scope is sooo clear and I have no complaints with any part of it except this. Right now I'm running 175gr smk over 43.5 rl15 fps 2446 10 shot average. So first range day I zero at 100. I then proceed to stretch it out. WTF!!!!! ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!! So I start reading everything that came with the scope and going back over vids from rex, country mash, and gotaboy32. Next I email primary arms. Darrel is AWRSOME!!! he got right back to me sooo fast!!!! What CS!!! If I sight in at 100yrds 2.5" high at 100 that's the best the scope will match up. Darrel sent a pdf with what all the drops would be. I was shocked at how far off it is. I asked PA what fps and bullet grain was this scope made for? So for a 175gr smk you need 2700fps to match up!! Why is this not up on there web site right under the scope? I would NEVER have gotten this scope!! He'll federal gmm lists there fps at 2600fps out of a 20 barrel if I remeber correctly. My loads show no presure signs now but there is no way I can get a 16in bbl to go 2700fps without a BIG BUDDA BOOM!!! this scope is a great scope but why would they not configure the reticle to what the majority of 175gr ammo is shooting? Anyone got any ideas? I love all the ranging features of the hud dmr reticle but now its totaly useless to me and anyone not running a 24 or 26 inch bb and hot loads. I guess my idea of a dmr rifle is different than primary arms. Anyone got any ideas that don't include me losing a bunch of cash. Ok I'm ready for the beating to start!! Flame away!!!!
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Rifle Scopes PRIMARY ARMS GLX HUD DMR problem
- Thread starter qqqq33
- Start date
It doesn't need to match up. As pictured above, it doesnt need to be on 100 yard increments. That's unrealistic, and it pigeon holes you into trying to match ammo to a reticle, which is silly instead of shooting the best ammo for the rifle and knowing your holds.
Each subtension of your reticle has a corresponding holdover in moa or mils. Simply match your dope to you reticle. If the first subtension down is 1.2 mils, and 1.2 mils is your 320 yard dope, then that's what the first subtension equals.
It's really quite easy.. You'll get used to it in no time.
Each subtension of your reticle has a corresponding holdover in moa or mils. Simply match your dope to you reticle. If the first subtension down is 1.2 mils, and 1.2 mils is your 320 yard dope, then that's what the first subtension equals.
It's really quite easy.. You'll get used to it in no time.
If I wanted to do all of that work I would have chosen a different reticle. The reason I chose that reticle was for Speed. And the fact that an inexperienced user could pick up the rifle and with very little practice achieve hits out to distance
Why else would you buy a BDC except for ease of use? That's what they're made for.
But you're really missing the point here if you think those lines need to correspond to every hundred yards. We can thank the military for dumbing the ammo and reticle down to this point so even inexperienced shooters can easily adapt. People erroneously think all BDCs are supposed to be that way, and idiotic optic manufactures even promote it this way, and then multitudes of fellas like you come on here upset that it doesnt all line up. Well it very rarely lines up. Luckily, you dont need it to. In fact, it works much better if you dont even try.
I shoot 3 Gun with BDC reticles, most everyone I know uses them. None of them line up at 100 yard increments. No one is dumb enough to waste all that time tinkering their ammo to make that happen. You shoot the right load for the rifle and learn your dope. And I've yet to see a shooting sport that utilizes a BDC for speed at multiple ranges like 3 Gun does.
Even if you get it lined up at 100 yards, it doesnt stay that way. Velocity will vary based on lots of variables, if you always expect it to be spot on, you'll be disappointed. Whereas if you check your velocity, run a new dope on your ballistic solver and adjust accordingly, it will always be right.
Trust me, dope the reticle to your rifle. Not the other way around.
It's impossible to set a reticle to match all rifles in general when all rifles in general are so different. Different barrel lengths, different actions, different wear on the barrels, shooting different loads, different bullet weights, different MV, different powder charges, etc. It is stupid silly to think you can just buy a BDC reticle scope and expect it to match directly to your shooting.
I was not expecting the reticle to match up exactly pinpoint accurately. I was looking for minute of man. I was expecting the BCD reticle to at least be able to hit a uspsa Target not head shots. 18" x 30". A simple disclaimer on their website under the scope stating that for this reticle to line up perfectly your 175 grain smk must be going 2700fps would have been very helpful.
I have a firm policy of never buying a scope or firearm with more than 2 acronyms in the name.
So far it hasn‘t let me down.
So far it hasn‘t let me down.
1. Shoot the rifle over a chrono, magnetospeed, Labrador, etc.
2. Plug that into you ballistic solver of choice.
3. Determine the subtension of the graduations in your scope- in mil or moa.
4. Match those numbers to your dope.
5. Write those yardages on one of those "dope discs" that fit into an eyepiece scope cap.
6. Put the dope disc in your eye piece scope cap.
And, don't buy scopes with BDC reticles.
2. Plug that into you ballistic solver of choice.
3. Determine the subtension of the graduations in your scope- in mil or moa.
4. Match those numbers to your dope.
5. Write those yardages on one of those "dope discs" that fit into an eyepiece scope cap.
6. Put the dope disc in your eye piece scope cap.
And, don't buy scopes with BDC reticles.
Not sure what you want people to say.
You bought a shit scope and it bit you. Sell it at a gun show to some rube who thinks it's OAF and buy a scope with a MIL scale reticle and you can figure any ammo out. That scope doesn't feature the words primary or arms in the title.
BTW... Not sure what your definition of 'DMR Rifle' includes but a 175 at 2400fps ain't it, your BC is for shit at that velocity.
If you're going to run a barrel that short I'd work up a load with 155 Palmas and that'll get your MV back up where you've got some lead in your pencil.
You bought a shit scope and it bit you. Sell it at a gun show to some rube who thinks it's OAF and buy a scope with a MIL scale reticle and you can figure any ammo out. That scope doesn't feature the words primary or arms in the title.
BTW... Not sure what your definition of 'DMR Rifle' includes but a 175 at 2400fps ain't it, your BC is for shit at that velocity.
If you're going to run a barrel that short I'd work up a load with 155 Palmas and that'll get your MV back up where you've got some lead in your pencil.
It's my fault for not doing complete research on this scope. I have other primary arms acss scopes. 2 1x6 slx on 16" bbl ar15's. I've tried them with multiple Factory ammunitions, and they were not exactly perfect but damn good enough to hit a uspsa target to 700m even with 55 grain ball. Just hold the 700 yard hash mark on the head and hits in the lower mid-section. Unfortunately for me I had assumed that this scope would have at least been trude for very popular barrel lengths and ammo. Through watching multiple videos of Dimitri on YouTube, 175 grain Sierra matchking was what he was using. (I could be wrong I'm just going off of memory) again I had just assumed that if I used an incredibly popular 175 grain gold medal match I would be kind of close. I knew because I was running a 16 inch barrel that my FPS was going to be lower and I would have to hold a little high at longer distances. But if you look at the drop sheet (look above at the drop sheet pic) that was given to me by primary arms representative. It's not even in the ballpark. Once again if primary arms would have just put a disclaimer under the scope stating that it's calibrated for 2700 feet per second 175 grain match King it would save a lot of people time and money. Like I stated before I wasn't looking for precision accuracy. I was looking for minute of man. Uspsa size target 18"x 30".
Most people shoot 24" bolt guns in .308 and virtually noone runs a 16" 308 as a precision piece, especially with 175 grain ammo. Its a silly thing to do. Slow cartridge combined with heavy bullet and short barrel. They would be idiots if they matched the BDC to your 1% of the buying public rifle/ammo choice. Would have been a better choice to scale in meters so yards would fit some slower loads better but it would still not work for your bullets flying at near 300 Blackout type velocities.
That said the PA GLx scopes have really nice turrets, a 3/4-135 degree throw magnification lever that stops at 45 degrees to right as to not interfere with right handed bolt gun cycling, a great illumination system, and parallax down to 25 yards. If only they had better/more standard reticle choices I would use them for a lot of things like precision 22lr builds, AR optics, etc.
I like them better than their Japanese Platinum scopes that cost over twice as much. I like them at least as much as Vortex PST Gen 2 scopes. Just the non standard reticles kill it for me.
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I don't know? At the range that I go to 90% of all the 308 on the firing line are semi Autos with barrels less than 20 in. And if you read what I stated above I was not looking for precision. If I wanted long range Precision I would use my 300 Remington Ultra Mag or my 338 Edge.
I have a PA 1-8 with the ACSS reticle I use it on a 18" AR10 I mostly shoot M118LR (Which is a 175 SMK) the BDC reticle lines up almost perfect out to 600yds. I have no problem hitting 18"x30" steel uspsa targets center mass and just to see if I can sometimes I get headshots. I haven't checked the MV on it, but next time I go to the range I will because now I am curious. Maybe two inches does make a difference (women lie all the time).
I have 2 1x6 acss scopes on ar15. I LOVE them!!! At 700 yards I hold on the top of uspsa target and hit lower mid section.
Well, that's not really happening, is it.
Industry standard is 24" barrel bolt gun.
USMC used a 24" barrel, US Army used a 24" barrel, hell, even the M21 is a 21" barrel.
Gas system bleeds velocity. Shortening the barrel 8 inches bleeds velocity, yet you're bitching about a scope designed for the industry standard not matching up.
Now, you can argue that many have gone to gas guns, I absolutely agree. The typical DMR configuration there is 18 or 20 inches.
You've taken a medium range caliber and chopped it's legs out from under it.
Get out on the range, figure your drops to 500 yards and make a drop chart.
You do not have a scope problem, you have a user problem.
Can a LaRue obr with a 20 inch barrel get to 2700 feet per second with 175 grain heads? How about KAC with a 20-inch barrel, this scope was advertised as a DMR scope . I thought DMR was more semi-auto then Bolt gun.
I'm sorry I could have sworn I read an article or two about the military using semi-autos as DMR guns now and especially in the future. And you're right I won't have a scope problem as soon as I get rid of it. I'll just dial my dope like I do with my other rifles or get one with a Horus type reticle. Like the one on my 300 Ultra Mag or my 338 Edge semi-auto. A drop chart like this? Lol
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I have an 18" SASS in 308. I long since ditched the 175gr pills in favor of 155's. They are plenty accurate with a 10" twist in 175's, but performance is so much better with the faster bullet.
He said the same thing I did. DMR has more to do with optics over irons and range than caliber. A lot of the military's "DMR" guns are Ar15s with better optics or old ass M14s with longer barrels.
You're mixing and matching capabilities that don't blend. If you want your cheapo scope to match the reticle you need a much longer barrel.
If you want something shorter and handier You're going to give up long distances and any scopes designed to work with them.
You're mixing and matching capabilities that don't blend. If you want your cheapo scope to match the reticle you need a much longer barrel.
If you want something shorter and handier You're going to give up long distances and any scopes designed to work with them.
You continue to drop that crap about having a 300 ultra mag and 338 edge. An experienced shooter would be well aware of the limitations of a BDC reticle and wouldn't be bitching about how they don't work, because they would have already understood they are a compromise.
They do have their place.
Now, that I've busted your balls, I do think you have a very legitimate gripe about the 2700 FPS, that is more than FGMM (industry standard) and even more than the M118LR. I agree that 2500 would have been a far more realistic number. Of course, DA varies as well, so that can be a factor.
FYI:
Barrel length on the M110 is 20", not 16.
However, the CSASS does indeed have a 16" barrel.
The 168 Hornady ELD match has a slightly higher BC than the 175 SMK, 2700 may still be difficult but you can get close.
I got caught up in the hype. I hate admitting that . But I also stated multiple times in this thread that this is completely my fault for not doing my homework and research about this scope and its capabilities . Do I own those rifles that I stated yes I do and more. Lloyd DeSantis made me a custom-made 338 Edge semi-auto. That in itself was an ordeal. But thank God we got it worked out and the gun runs great. Lloyd used to have a company called RND Edge. I use Redding dies from Shawn Carlock. I do not believe Lloyd is in business anymore as I think he is now too old to work. My 300 Remington Ultra Mag it's just a plain old 700 action with a proof research barrel and an XLR Industries chassis. It started out as an old hunting rifle that I wanted to turn into a long-range Rock killer! I by no means am an expert and I am still learning a lot just like everyone else. I thank everyone who has posted in this thread. all the information has been incredibly valuable and I appreciate your time!! Your idea of switching to the 168 ELD is fantastic! That is the kind of in-depth idea I was looking for!
I only lied to women about my penis size! Never about guns! LOL
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I think I see where the confusion came in, I can now understand why you were so perplexed.
I looked at the electronic manual on the 6-24 .308 HUD page.
The reticle breakdown etc... was for a 5.56 77 gr SMK at 2800 FPS (a quite optimistic speed for factory loads).
Why the fuck they have it advertised as a .308 reticle when it is calibrated for 5.56 is beyond me.
Out of curiosity, what is the country of manufacture?
I'm thinking return that bitch and take Doug up on the 2.5-15 Athlon on sale. That power range would be far more suitable for the DMR role.
The .308/5.56 thing is more of an occasional overlap. The same is true for the 5.56-calibrated reticles. At some velocities, 5.56 will match close enough to .308 that the reticle is useful for its intended purpose. It's convenient, but not a blanket solution. All BDC reticles need a bit of attention and love to get the right velocity for the load. Strelok helps a lot for that.
OP really should be hitting 155gr rounds for the 16". That'll get him to the 2600-fps threshold the .308 HUD DMR reflects.
Anyway, GLx is made in the Philippines. As others have said, they're very good scopes for the money. Solid glass. Minimal tracking error. If you're not a fan of BDCs, MIL reticles should be out sooner or later.
I just got an email from primary arms apologizing for giving me wrong information. It is not 2700 feet per second it's 2600 feet per second and yes the Hornady eld-m 155 grain matches up better. Only problem is Hornady ELD m-155 requires a 1 in 12 twist. I have 1 in 10. I've called proof research and hopefully they have a carbon fiber Barrel for my G2 . I'm sure they will get back to me tomorrow. I will be looking for a 18 in Carbon Fiber barrel. According to the chart if I get the 18-inch barrel ill easily Attain the FPS that will correlate to the reticle much better. Or at least good enough for what I want. Once again thank you primary arms for all of the effort and follow through! What fantastic customer service!!!!! I told the service rep if you ever take a trip to Hawaii give me a call and I will hook that gentleman up!
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Your 1-10 twist will handle a 150 grain just fine.
The problem is you have a primary arms scope, swapping barrels wont fix that.
The problem is you have a primary arms scope, swapping barrels wont fix that.
I now have multiple options thanks to the many knowledgeable people here. I have money to burn! you never know I might just buy two barrels one for 155 grain ELD match and one for 175 grain Sierra matchking with an 18-inch barrel letting me push the FPS much higher and closer to 2600 feet per second. Time will tell! this will be a very fun project! It's not like my life depends on it! LOL im just another Joe six-pack trying to have a good time playing around with my hobby! Aloha from hawaii!!!!
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You can get the 2600 easily with the 168 ELD M which matches very nicely with the BC of the 175 SMK.
It's not just velocity, you also have to consider BC.
You'll easily be able to exceed 2600 with a 150 or 155, which, in light of the lower BC, may still match up.
168 eldm out of a 16"bbl will get to 2600fps? I'm asking because I have absolutely no experience with 168 grain Hornady Eld ammo. Thank you for your time brother I really appreciate it! I've been a member here for a long time but I hardly ever post. I don't feel like I have enough knowledge to add anything constructive.
All right I have given up on the 16 inch barrel. Ill call up Craddock Precision and have them spin me up a 18 inch barrel. As per the advice of experts from snipers hide I will be switching to the 168 Hornady eld-m. Just ordered 500 heads from Powder Valley. Thanks everybody for all your help I really appreciate it! Once I get everything going I'll post some pictures of groups and velocity from the Magneto speed. Thank you and aloha!
45 grains of either varget or imr 4064 will get you very close. both are known as accuracy powders.
