Prime Update Video

[spife7980]

Wont let me embed it here but an update on prime I just saw on facebook.

https://www.full30.com/watch/MDIwMjk0/prime-ammunition-speaks-out-officially

 

[spife7980]

So... do we have to boycott RUAG/Norma on principal now?

Edit: Ehh, looks like norma was operating within the lines to me with all this evidence so far

 

[Lowlight]

I was on the phone with Jim when this post was made,

I will be interviewing shortly for the Everyday Sniper Podcast if you have any questions let me know

But yes he posted a response, has filed a counterclaim against RUAG and will be speaking about it moving forward

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[clcustom1911]

Wow. I knew it was bad, but not THAT bad.

 

[Spblademaker]

So what companies does RUAG make ammo for? Norma, RWS, Geco....

 

[elmuzzlebreak]

And for Ruag to just say "Fuck you we are just gong to load Gardner's formula unless you pay us," that was a shitty move. I know I have been critical of prime in the past but I do admit it was a mistake. Hope Prime pulls through.

 

[blbennett1288]

Damn shame to see that happen to Prime.

Good luck Jim, and Team, as you have the Hides support.

 

[blbennett1288]

So... do we have to boycott RUAG/Norma on principal now?

Yup...100%

 

[Lowlight]

I have the court documents I believe it is all filed so I am not sure if I should post it, but I really want to because it's even worse.

The video paints one picture, the court filing a very different and more important picture comes to light when you look at the timelines and who did what and why

 

[clcustom1911]

Yup...100%

I was just gonna buy some Norma 223 on sale, but NOPE.

 

[Spblademaker]

@Lowlight Just get a few good interviews in before everything settles out of court and the gag orders are instituted.

 

[clcustom1911]

I have the court documents I believe it is all filed so I am not sure if I should post it, but I really want to because it's even worse.

The video paints one picture, the court filing a very different and more important picture comes to light when you look at the timelines and who did what and why

If they're publicly available, then, yeah. But if it were me, I'd the the OK from another level....

 

[Lowlight]

we are going live on the podcast asap, I was ready to record today, but wanted to see what questions came up first

 

[blbennett1288]

I have the court documents I believe it is all filed so I am not sure if I should post it, but I really want to because it's even worse.

The video paints one picture, the court filing a very different and more important picture comes to light when you look at the timelines and who did what and why

Sounds like some exceedingly corrupt business ethics, i.e. extortion.

 

[BoilerUP]

Failure to deliver prepaid merchandise is absolutely, totally fuckin' theft.

 

[SkyScrapin]

This makes my blood boil, and I don't have skin in the game. If there is a way to support Jim's cause, I'd love to chip in.

 

[Srgt. Hulka]

Well now, that just sucks.

 

[J-Ham]

I'm interested in how I can help out, other than boycotting Norma 6 Creed that I don't shoot anyway.

 

[Nathan11B]

I love Prime and want to support them but man RUAG screwed them over hard. Tying up all their capital only to not deliever was a preplanned move. I’m behind Prime!

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

I hope Jim wins in court and takes Norma for all they're worth.

 

[chaosgadoury]

Where is to GoFundMe? Or Jim could take take donations in the form of future credit.

 

[Lowlight]

They are talking about a gofundme to fight Goliath since their money is currently tied up,

I will have details about it tomorrow

 

[BigRed308]

Sounds like Jim has an idea to get around this lawsuit. But like he said, capital will be his largest problem. Wish him luck and as always continued support.

 

[clcustom1911]

we are going live on the podcast asap, I was ready to record today, but wanted to see what questions came up first

How can we support legal fees Prime is enduring?

 

[AIAW]

Damn I didn't know it had escalated to this level between them. Hope it works out for Prime. RUAG sounds awful confident for some reason, like perhaps Prime signed something maybe they shouldn't have in the original deal?

 

[chaosgadoury]

Wow. I knew it was bad, but not THAT bad.

Yea. I figured RUAG was trying to squeeze PRIME for more money. To try and get out of the contract by putting them out of business is criminal.

RUAG wasn't interested in the US market until PRIME was successful. This is definitely not how you try and win over customers.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Is this something where someone is trying to get rid of an up and coming possible future competitor by doing evil stuff, probably illegal, but hoping they can bankrupt the other guy before they get stomped on in court?

 

[ajdemar215]

I hate to ask this question especially at this time. Is prime just a middle man? Does prime load anything for themselves or do they just send RUAG the formula and QC standards and have them load it? Either way I’ll still buy prime when they get back up and rolling but that’s always been a question in my mind. What can we do to help?

 

[Lowlight]

Prime is a middle man, the ammo is loaded and boxed there, and then Prime sells it here.

Moving forward I know they plan to diversify the brand, using different loads and source ammo from more than one place.

It's not uncommon for most Ammo companies to get the load from someone bigger, even Hornady makes some stuff for Federal as an example

 

[cornhusker86]

Very shortsighted on RUAG's part. They really have no idea how many customers will boycott them as a result of their business practices.

 

[Lowlight]

RUAG was losing money in the US to start with, they never had very good sales.

The changing of management hands, the fact they bet on Hillary winning and then looking at the Trump Slump, it's easy to see how they messed up. In the suit it talks about the Swiss Gov not wanting to not be associated to Civilian US sales, that is another layer to this drama, they want to stop all civilian sales and the outside management teams were looking to purchase that side of things. Prime did not want a shitty buyout deal so the management team is looking to remove them instead.

Plus think about it, Norma and Prime are identical, Prime is popular here if you move them out of the way, you can start Marketing Norma to fill the gap. So in their mind why not control all of it vs just have it paid for as a subcontractor.

 

[c.blackwell1]

Love prime ammo but RUAG is confident for some reason. Would like to see the court docs.

 

[lash]

Frank, ask Prime to start a go fund me or similar account for people to help support their defense. I’ve seen this type of maneuver pulled before by large corporations. The trick is to have someone else create a market for them and then use their size and unethical business practices to destroy them and take the market away.

Further, I have been very happy reloading the Norma brass that Prime used in the few cases of .260 that I bought from them. I would have bought more from them, but the $100/case penalty for .260 over 6.5 Creedmoor was more than I wanted to pay on a regular basis.

Now, with Hornady, Federal and AB Berger all providing high quality match ammo for competitive prices in the same calibers, I’ll get by until Prime comes back without resorting to Ruag/Norma.

 

[clcustom1911]

Is this something where someone is trying to get rid of an up and coming possible future competitor by doing evil stuff, probably illegal, but hoping they can bankrupt the other guy before they get stomped on in court?

Westinghouse, Tesla/Niagara Falls Electric Plant, General Electric.............................

 

[Bradu]

Very shortsighted on RUAG's part. They really have no idea how many customers will boycott them as a result of their business practices.

The only downside is if they sell it cheaper, you will have plenty of people be happy to buy it regardless of the circumstances. This is a shitty deal for Prime and I hope a lot of people support Prime by not buying anything related to Ruag.

I never bought anything from Prime but have recommended them to several people who were shooting their ammo. My brother told me how he received a call from Jim after his first order, that goes a long way in customer service. I hope they make it through this.

 

[SoCal326]

I recall a while back a bunch of Prime ammo was on sale because Prime was moving locations and didn't want to relocate the product. I think I heard it mentioned on The Everyday Sniper podcast.

Was that a true story or was RUAG just trying to liquidate their supply for cheap?

 

[Steel head]

Yikes!

I’ve never bought a prime product but I can assure you I’ll NEVER buy a RUAG/norma product ever again.

 

[Lowlight]

It was true they were moving stuff, but RUAG did step in and tried liquidating it, which if you paid attention there was a false start to it because RUAG tried selling it less than Prime paid. I was contacted by RUAG direct in regards to pricing, and I was asking if Prime approved it and RUAG pulled a bit of a bait and switch numbers wise, just in the end users favor. Prime stepped in and changed it.

They did have a move in mind but part of it was the opening to this battle. As noted in the suit, Prime floats a certain amount of cost with RUAG holding the note on the ammo. They tried collecting all at once vs going off the previous agreements which give them points throughout the year to pay.

 

[NateVA]

That's very unfortunate for PRIME. I hope they win the countersuit for as much as possible.

 

[blbennett1288]

Was that a true story or was RUAG just trying to liquidate their supply for cheap?

2 different situations:

The sale earlier on was so they could move to Tennessee.

Most recently Prime has not sold anything in a while since RUAG has a hold on their supply and is trying to liquidate it

 

[Lowlight]

here is the full suit, the counterclaim starts on page 19

 

[Basher]

Sooo... eff RUAG/Norma.

I hadn’t purchased anything from Prime yet because I have sufficient for my needs (well, you can NEVER have enough ammo, but you know what I mean). But they were on my list to try.

I’ll be damned sure to do so once they get things sorted, and will make a point of never purchasing a RUAG/Norma product if I’m aware of it being theirs. Far as I’m concerned, they’re dead to me from this point forward unless info surfaces proving their intentions were other than what is shown here, and that seems highly unlikely at present.

 

[Spblademaker]

Seems like RUAG doesn’t have to worry about selling to the US Civilian market anymore. ?

 

[earthtrekker1775]

We need a list of companies that use RUAG components, etc. and a form letter explaining how we disdain unethical business practices perpetrated by RUAG and will no longer purchase anything from these companies because of their treatment of companies like Prime. Then we need to know where to send the letter/email. The best way to change the tune of a large, money loving corporation is to hurt their bottom line. 15,000 or so Sniper's Hide members and friends/family/shootingg buddies sending said email ought to get the point across

 

[Subwrx300]

GECO, RWS, NORMA and MFS... Those are the brands owned by RUAG and sold in the US.

I will not be purchasing any Norma/RUAG products due this type of BS business practice. That's a shitty headspace, no-go scenario in my book.

How dumb does the ownership have to be to think a US customer base wouldn't backlash against a foreign owned company blackmailing and holding another US company and goods hostage?

 

[JH54]

Certainly glad we finally got some clarity on the situation, and hopefully the members can help support a solution for Prime and our ammo need.

 

[Precisiondada]

I agree, a well versed letter to Midway corporate and other companies that sell Raug, along with a few thousand signatures from the Hide could help.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Yea, a big "fuck you" is coming to Ruag/Norma. They brought it on to themselves. They could have had both. Supplied Prime like always and marker their own shit with a different load/component combo but they decided to go the fuck boy route.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

I commented on Primes IG page. The free market will speak very loudly and direct in this one.

 

[Basher]

Should we comment on their various social media platforms to express out displeasure? They seem to have several different ones based on location, so I’m not sure which to post my thoughts on...