Primer issues and questions

[alamo5000]

I know after tumbling they go In a dehydrator for a hour or so. Then cool while In the dehydrator back to room temperature… maybe from going outside being warmer to inside in a cool house caused condensation to build up.

It's more likely how the cases were positioned in the course of things. If you have the case mouth tipped up a bit and there is enough water involved it's reasonable to think that one hour won't be enough time to evaporate the water as instead of just drying the surface off there are large droplets.

What I do is when my brass is done tumbling and separated from the media, I get a towel and put the brass on it then wrap it up like a hobo bag. I then bounce it all around to dislodge anything stubborn including water left inside the cases or even any media that I might have missed. It doesn't take long at all to be effective.

 

[savagemann]

It's more likely how the cases were positioned in the course of things. If you have the case mouth tipped up a bit and there is enough water involved it's reasonable to think that one hour won't be enough time to evaporate the water as instead of just drying the surface off there are large droplets.

What I do is when my brass is done tumbling and separated from the media, I get a towel and put the brass on it then wrap it up like a hobo bag. I then bounce it all around to dislodge anything stubborn including water left inside the cases or even any media that I might have missed. It doesn't take long at all to be effective.

I do the same when wet tumbling and drying.
I have 2 towels dedicated to drying brass. The first one gets pretty damp and the second really helps get the droplets off. Helps prevent water marks.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I know after tumbling they go In a dehydrator for a hour or so. Then cool while In the dehydrator back to room temperature… maybe from going outside being warmer to inside in a cool house caused condensation to build up.

Possible I guess, but I really don't think there's any issues there. I have no idea how it happened, but I think there's some other forces at work here. No idea what or who, but these cases sat in loading trays primed and ready for a few days before I loaded them, and I think somewhere in there either my kids or Possible my dog got some moisture in those 6 somehow. My Akita is easily tall enough to have licked on them if that drawer was open, and my one year old can pull the drawer open. He can't really get in it, but he can pull it out. My 5 year old can of course get in the drawer , so between the 3 of them, I could see some juice or something having gotten in there or something weird like that. They know not to mess with my loading area but if my wife is downstairs in my office (she does all my billing, invoices, payroll, insurance ect), and the little fella was loose, there's plenty of opportunity. My 1 year old us hell on wheels Boys! I could see him opening the drawer, and my dog coming along and licking the cases or some juice or who knows what happening.

I won't ever know, but I won't leave cases ready to load withing their reach again. They will go in the safe.

 

[rottenruger]

So, I just got back from @CR2 SS low light class (which was awesome, definitely would recommend, and I will definitely post about it in another thread), and I had a total of 6 primers out of right at 200 rounds that didn't go bang.

Main Question 1- I've never had a primer not go bang on hand loads, and only a handful of times with factory center fire loads over many many years. How is it that I had so many this time and how likely is it that this issue has infected my whole 1000 pack? Can I do anything about this going forward? Will manufacturer do anything?

Main Question 2- how risky is it for me to use an inertia puller to take the rounds apart and get my brass and maybe bullet back?

I have a really good firing pin mark on all of them, it's definitely not a light strike. These are not cheap primers or anything either (as if that even exists now days)
This is a bolt action if that matters in this situation. I can post pics of said rounds if need be also.

Thanks.

Re: Pulling the bullets: What bullet are you using? I use Hornady ELDX with the fancy ballistic tip. If I use a hammer puller, I have to put paper towel shreds inside to help protect the tip. If I use (now) the press bullet puller, it seems to leave a slight ring on the bullet. I'm a low volume shooter, almost always on paper, so usually toss bullets with defective tips. Ouch! Is it diff for Sierra Matchking hollow points and such?

MY problem with primers is some of my pockets are getting too big and not holding the primer well. I can't complain, because I seem to get extraordinary life out of my cases, never max load so I don't strain them. I might need to find a happy medium in cleaning the pockets so I don't wear them down? Anyway, as I said, can't complain, break down and order some more Lapua or Norma or Hornady cases.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Re: Pulling the bullets: What bullet are you using? I use Hornady ELDX with the fancy ballistic tip. If I use a hammer puller, I have to put paper towel shreds inside to help protect the tip. If I use (now) the press bullet puller, it seems to leave a slight ring on the bullet. I'm a low volume shooter, almost always on paper, so usually toss bullets with defective tips. Ouch! Is it diff for Sierra Matchking hollow points and such?

MY problem with primers is some of my pockets are getting too big and not holding the primer well. I can't complain, because I seem to get extraordinary life out of my cases, never max load so I don't strain them. I might need to find a happy medium in cleaning the pockets so I don't wear them down? Anyway, as I said, can't complain, break down and order some more Lapua or Norma or Hornady cases.

I shoot Berger otm hybrid bullets in that caliber and I can use a specific set of pliers and use the press and get em out without much marking. With the inertia puller the bullet hits the foam in the bottom and doesn't do any damage in mine, it's am FA.

 

[Yondering]

Possible I guess, but I really don't think there's any issues there. I have no idea how it happened, but I think there's some other forces at work here. No idea what or who, but these cases sat in loading trays primed and ready for a few days before I loaded them, and I think somewhere in there either my kids or Possible my dog got some moisture in those 6 somehow. My Akita is easily tall enough to have licked on them if that drawer was open, and my one year old can pull the drawer open. He can't really get in it, but he can pull it out. My 5 year old can of course get in the drawer , so between the 3 of them, I could see some juice or something having gotten in there or something weird like that. They know not to mess with my loading area but if my wife is downstairs in my office (she does all my billing, invoices, payroll, insurance ect), and the little fella was loose, there's plenty of opportunity. My 1 year old us hell on wheels Boys! I could see him opening the drawer, and my dog coming along and licking the cases or some juice or who knows what happening.

I won't ever know, but I won't leave cases ready to load withing their reach again. They will go in the safe.

Maybe.

It’s far more likely that you just didn’t get them dried properly. You wet tumbled, and then some of them were found with moisture inside. Occam’s razor.

Drying your brass in the oven eliminates this issue. I set my oven to 225* (just over the 212* boiling point of water, but not remotely hot enough to damage brass) and leave them for an hour. Once the brass hits 225* there is no chance of water being in the cases any more.

 

[chase723]

The primers look like that because nothing ignited. They’re just dented from the firing pin. Whereas if they went off, then all of the pressure generated by the ignition would form them just like the other ones.

 

[chase723]

I had one of the triggers from Trigger Tech that was recalled that would intermittently cause a light primer strike. The primers all looked like that. I’d lift the bolt to recock the firing pin assembly, pull the trigger and the rounds would go off per usual, and then the primers looked like all my other ones.

 

[Yondering]

The primers look like that because nothing ignited. They’re just dented from the firing pin. Whereas if they went off, then all of the pressure generated by the ignition would form them just like the other ones.

Wrong. Primer ignition does not cause the high peak pressure that a normal round sees, and does not form the primers to look like a normal round.

Instead, popping a primer with no powder (or wet powder) usually backs out the primer a bit and leaves a very rounded appearance, exactly as shown in the OP’s pics.

You can easily test this for yourself with some empty primed cases.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Maybe.

It’s far more likely that you just didn’t get them dried properly. You wet tumbled, and then some of them were found with moisture inside. Occam’s razor.

Drying your brass in the oven eliminates this issue. I set my oven to 225* (just over the 212* boiling point of water, but not remotely hot enough to damage brass) and leave them for an hour. Once the brass hits 225* there is no chance of water being in the cases any more.

I dired em in the oven once and I didn't do it again because it turned my brass a weird color. It didn't have any effect on performance , as I checked it to make sure but it made me a little uneasy so I didn't do it again. I probably had it too hot though. If you dry it at 225 will it change or do you do something after that?

 

[acudaowner]

no idea if it's really safe or not , but of the 100 or so rounds I have fudged up not a one of any of the powder , cases or primers or bullets have I wasted I pull them all I may pull the primer last if i messed up the cases , and only do one at a time but that's not cause I read how to do it or do it safely . If they were to pop I only want one in or around to pop I like my fingers and toes to count to 28 lol , and for it to remain that way . best of luck oh I do or did use an enertia hammer but tired of banging it on other items to get the bullet out , then a press mounter puller and now a wall unit from frankford arsonal with no banging on wood needed or other material and plastic trays to catch the powder and bullets .

 

[Yondering]

I dired em in the oven once and I didn't do it again because it turned my brass a weird color. It didn't have any effect on performance , as I checked it to make sure but it made me a little uneasy so I didn't do it again. I probably had it too hot though. If you dry it at 225 will it change or do you do something after that?

It’s just water discoloration. Doesn’t affect anything except appearance. If you dry tumble, like I sometimes do with loaded ammo to remove lube, the brass goes back to looking like new. Or just ignore it since it doesn’t matter.

I’d guess you might be able to eliminate it by rinsing in distilled water or something but it never mattered enough for me to try.

The heat of the oven doesn’t have any effect at all on the integrity of the brass though; 225* is way below the threshold to start softening brass.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

It’s just water discoloration. Doesn’t affect anything except appearance. If you dry tumble, like I sometimes do with loaded ammo to remove lube, the brass goes back to looking like new. Or just ignore it since it doesn’t matter.

I’d guess you might be able to eliminate it by rinsing in distilled water or something but it never mattered enough for me to try.

The heat of the oven doesn’t have any effect at all on the integrity of the brass though; 225* is way below the threshold to start softening brass.

Yeah I know it doesn't effect anything because I tested it. It makes them hard to see though. That greenish sort of brown brass color is hard to find on the ground. That's my only reason for caring about colouration

 

[Yondering]

Yeah I know it doesn't effect anything because I tested it. It makes them hard to see though. That greenish sort of brown brass color is hard to find on the ground. That's my only reason for caring about colouration

I hear that, darker brass is harder to find.

I clean and dry that way before sizing, then dry tumble my loaded ammo to remove the lube. The brass comes out bright and shiny, of course even brighter than just dry tumbling alone.

 

[chase723]

Wrong. Primer ignition does not cause the high peak pressure that a normal round sees, and does not form the primers to look like a normal round.

Instead, popping a primer with no powder (or wet powder) usually backs out the primer a bit and leaves a very rounded appearance, exactly as shown in the OP’s pics.

You can easily test this for yourself with some empty primed cases.

Not wrong. It happens in both scenarios. The next time you have a primer misfire look at it. It looks very similar to primers fired in subsonic loads. The reason that both look that way is because, like you said, they aren’t subjected to high peak pressures of an ignited full house round and aren’t explosively formed against the bolt face and firing pin hole etc.

But I digress. Sounds like he had wet powder.

 

[Yondering]

The primers look like that because nothing ignited. They’re just dented from the firing pin. Whereas if they went off, then all of the pressure generated by the ignition would form them just like the other ones.

Not wrong. It happens in both scenarios. The next time you have a primer misfire look at it. It looks very similar to primers fired in subsonic loads. The reason that both look that way is because, like you said, they aren’t subjected to high peak pressures of an ignited full house round and therefore are explosively formed against the bolt face and firing pin hole etc.

But I digress. Sounds like he had wet powder.

No, you’re still wrong, and now pretending you didn’t say what you said.

Primer misfires don’t look the same as a primer fired with no/bad powder. Look at them yourself. Fired primers without case pressure stand proud of the case head, misfires don’t and are usually just dented inward.

But where you’re the most wrong is saying they they’d look like normal fired rounds if the primers had gone off. Read the part in bold above. That part is completely wrong.

 

[chase723]

No, you’re still wrong, and now pretending you didn’t say what you said.

Primer misfires don’t look the same as a primer fired with no/bad powder. Look at them yourself. Fired primers without case pressure stand proud of the case head, misfires don’t and are usually just dented inward.

But where you’re the most wrong is saying they they’d look like normal fired rounds if the primers had gone off. Read the part in bold above. That part is completely wrong.

Ok guy. Your trying to read something into what wasn’t said. Your making the assumption that I was implying if the primer went off. I was referring to if the actual round went off, not if only the primer went off. However looking at what was written, I can see how you could interpret what I said as to what you construed I meant. Regardless, please post some comparison pics between primer misfires and primers fired with no powder (out of the same action) so everyone can see. Show the OP the difference and help educate him.

 

[357Max]

Ok guy. Your trying to read something into what wasn’t said. Your making the assumption that I was implying if the primer went off. I was referring to if the actual round went off, not if only the primer went off. However looking at what was written, I can see how you could interpret what I said as to what you construed I meant. Regardless, please post some comparison pics between primer misfires and primers fired with no powder (out of the same action) so everyone can see. Show the OP the difference and help educate him.

You can see it in post #11 before he figured out it was moisture, I was thinking the primers weren’t fully seated. You can see it is now sitting proud from the picture. Primer fired at least partially and pushed out. I’ve fired primers in empty cases just to compare and don’t remember them pushing out since there was nothing in the bore, but with a squib it makes perfect sense that the primer will push out to the extent of head space clearance.

 

[MarshallDodge]

I'm betting on wet powder, and made the mistake once when I started ultrasonic cleaning. I pulled the bullet and the powder came out a little bit clumpy.

The inside of the case looked dry but I think there was a droplet in the primer pocket. When I was checking my next batch of loads I saw the issue and have since changed the way I dry cases.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I'm betting on wet powder, and made the mistake once when I started ultrasonic cleaning. I pulled the bullet and the powder came out a little bit clumpy.

The inside of the case looked dry but I think there was a droplet in the primer pocket. When I was checking my next batch of loads I saw the issue and have since changed the way I dry cases.

That's right. I knew as soon as I emptied the first cases the powder didn't look right and that it had to be moisture. I just don't know where it came from. I did have some cases that I cleaned in the ultrasonic, but these aren't them. These were wet tumbled and dried in a dehydrator, and then sat for another week before they got loaded. Had to be something splash , or my dog licked them, or kids juice, or kid put in mouth (this is more likely than you may think). I can't figure out how just 6 of them had this issue. It's about 230 rounds total that loaded in that 3 or 4 days and just this 6 rounds had issues. I won't ever know and it's bugs the crap out of me

 

[aprocast]

You are oversizing your brass, the fact that the primers have backed out on the duds shows this, as does the severely flattened primers on the fired cases

 

[Haney]

You are oversizing your brass, the fact that the primers have backed out on the duds shows this, as does the severely flattened primers on the fired cases

Wrong .

 

[MarshallDodge]

That's right. I knew as soon as I emptied the first cases the powder didn't look right and that it had to be moisture. I just don't know where it came from. I did have some cases that I cleaned in the ultrasonic, but these aren't them. These were wet tumbled and dried in a dehydrator, and then sat for another week before they got loaded. Had to be something splash , or my dog licked them, or kids juice, or kid put in mouth (this is more likely than you may think). I can't figure out how just 6 of them had this issue. It's about 230 rounds total that loaded in that 3 or 4 days and just this 6 rounds had issues. I won't ever know and it's bugs the crap out of me

I spent last winter down in Alabama and can't imagine trying to get things to dry out. Here in the Rocky Mountain West, we can't get enough moisture, so I was surprised that I had the issue.

There are a couple things that I changed since then. When rinsing the brass, I make sure I get ALL the soap/cleaning chemical off the brass. It takes much longer to dry if there is any soap left on the brass.

The other thing is to dry tumble in corncob media with polish after washing. This goes against the wet tumbling method of not having to deal with more media but it adds a bit of polish to the squeaky clean brass, and the media absorbs any moisture that could still be on the brass. I don't put the brass into the tumbler right away. The brass is shaken in a dry towel and left to set over night for some of the moisture to dissipate, then it goes into the dry tumbler.

 

[smoothy8500]

the primers have backed out on the duds shows this, as does the severely flattened primers on the fired cases

Wrong .

@Haney
Although the brass may not have been over-sized, primers do initially "back out" under pressure to take up any space.

 

[nrspence]

Had a bad lot of CCI450s once that did the same thing. I had no problem pulling the bullet, and punching out the un ignited primer.

 

[aprocast]

Wrong .

Not wrong