Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

[Darkop]

I will try to make this short, but will give you a little background first. I purchased 200 pieces of Alexander Arms (Lapua) brass and did load development without any problems.

I picked up 150 pieces of Hornady brass and NONE of the rounds would chamber In my rifle. The bolt with these rounds was slightly out of battery. Thinking that the brass was too long I pulled the rounds down and ran the brass though my Hornady sizing die. There was very little resistance when running them through the die. I then seated a few 123 Amax rounds without primer or powder and attempted chambering these, also with out any luck.

I visually inspected the brass and compared them (Hornady) with the Lapua brass and found that the shoulder on the Hornady brass is different. The shoulder is longer and and the angle of the shoulder is not as steep.

Has anyone who is loading for the 6.5 Grendel with Hornady brass had any problems with it?

I'm also concerned that Hornady may have the shoulder in their dies wrong as well. When I run the Lapua brass through the Hornady die the contact point on the shoulder is different on the Lapua brass.

Anyone have info or an opinion on this ? Please keep it civil W/O brand bashing.

Thanks in advance,
Darkop

 

[jasonZ]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

I haven't used Papua, but I have used hornady (and that's all I've used). No issues with clambering, but I'm loading 120gr Noslers. I run a matching sabre defense Apr barrel/bolt setup. I have shot hornady factory 123gr amax ammo with no problems and 7.62x39 brass that I resized, fire formed, etc, with no problems. Also loaded with Noslers.

I don't know why there would be a difference. I know that the 264lbc, or whatever that is, has a different angle at the neck. I guess it's more of the lack of multi-angle (grendel).

I'm probably not the smartest at this, mostly because I just got started on my grendel. Goodluck with it and I'm interested to see how it turns out for you. If I can help you out, let me know.

 

[redge]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

I have been using the Hornady Brass and have had zero problems. I also have shot some of the AA ammo with no problems. I am using the redding dies. I also have done some of the fireform route, with zero problems. Sorry I can't put my finger on the problem, but I figured more input would help some. Are you loading the 123amax to the same col as you were the AA 123 amax loads? Do you know the measurement to the ogive for your rifle, and are your loads (that won't work) at that measurement or below?

 

[jbailey]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

Who chambered your Grendel and when? Reason I ask is because there is/was a issue w/ Hornady brass and a bunch of the Grendel chambers. Bunch of folks on here have had the exact same problem. My 18" Satern purchase Dec 2010 chambers and shoots Hornady 123gr AMax w/o issue so I don't know what the details are. You might want to give the folks at Alexander Arms a call, as I believe they understand what is going on. You could probably call Hornady as well, but it would probably take some time to find the right guy there.

 

[jbailey]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

OK, I just called Alexander Arms. Here is the story-
Hornady sells 123gr Amax ammo faster than they can make it. They are already on their 6th run of the stuff which is a lot of rounds made. Apparently, one of the runs was with brass that was a bit long. Grendel barrels, especially the Satern chambers, are really tight, so with that long lot, they don't have room to chamber w/ the long Hornady brass lot.

Alexander Arms has discussed the issue with Hornady and they ran thru the tight tolerance specs with them. Both companies have committed to making sure it doesn't happen again.

You can probably call Hornady and get a refund on your long brass rounds...

 

[Darkop]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamesBailey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, I just called Alexander Arms. Here is the story-
Hornady sells 123gr Amax ammo faster than they can make it. They are already on their 6th run of the stuff which is a lot of rounds made. Apparently, one of the runs was with brass that was a bit long. Grendel barrels, especially the Satern chambers, are really tight, so with that long lot, they don't have room to chamber w/ the long Hornady brass lot.

Alexander Arms has discussed the issue with Hornady and they ran thru the tight tolerance specs with them. Both companies have committed to making sure it doesn't happen again.

You can probably call Hornady and get a refund on your long brass rounds...



</div></div>

The interesting thing is that when I run the Hornady brass through a Hornady sizing die and load a 123 Amax W/O powder and then attempt to chamber, it also will not chamber. I did this in a slightly dirty gun and it left a carbon ring right at the shoulder where the body of the cartridge starts. I'm wondering if the die is cut wrong as well?

As far as the loads that chambered, these are the specs

AA/Lapua brass
30.4gr Accurate 2520
123 Amax
COL: 2.245 Was the most accurate with a bit of a jump.

5, 5 shot groups averaged .80" at 2495 fps

I ordered 500 pieces of AA/LApua brass and redding dies last night.
I am going to call Hornady right now. I'll report back on the conversation.

Until that day,
Darkop

 

[Darkop]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Darkop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamesBailey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, I just called Alexander Arms. Here is the story-
Hornady sells 123gr Amax ammo faster than they can make it. They are already on their 6th run of the stuff which is a lot of rounds made. Apparently, one of the runs was with brass that was a bit long. Grendel barrels, especially the Satern chambers, are really tight, so with that long lot, they don't have room to chamber w/ the long Hornady brass lot.

Alexander Arms has discussed the issue with Hornady and they ran thru the tight tolerance specs with them. Both companies have committed to making sure it doesn't happen again.

You can probably call Hornady and get a refund on your long brass rounds...



</div></div>

The interesting thing is that when I run the Hornady brass through a Hornady sizing die and load a 123 Amax W/O powder and then attempt to chamber, it also will not chamber. I did this in a slightly dirty gun and it left a carbon ring right at the shoulder where the body of the cartridge starts. I'm wondering if the die is cut wrong as well?

As far as the loads that chambered, these are the specs

AA/Lapua brass
30.4gr Accurate 2520
123 Amax
COL: 2.245 Was the most accurate with a bit of a jump.

5, 5 shot groups averaged .80" at 2495 fps

I ordered 500 pieces of AA/LApua brass and redding dies last night.
I am going to call Hornady right now. I'll report back on the conversation.

Until that day,
Darkop
</div></div>

Well I called Hornady and carefully explained the situation. The person I spoke with said that the Lot of brass I had was all within AA specs. He told me to contact AA. He made no offer to replace the brass or refund my money. (Which was purchased through Midway)

I called AA and spoke with Bill Alexander. He was very helpful and informative. He said that my Shilen chamber might be about one to two thousandths tight but I should be fine loading the Lapua brass. He offered to slightly open up the length of the chamber so it would shoot the Hornady brass.

As I said I ordered More AA/lapua brass and Redding dies last night, so I am going to try them before sending in the barrel for rechambering. I hate to screw with this barrel/chamber because it's shooting so well right now with such little load development.

I think I will take the Hornady sizing die and remove .001-.002 material from the base to see if I can get the die to bump the shoulder back on the Hornady brass. Anyone see a problem with this?

Until that day,
Darkop

 

[FCS]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

I'd remove the material from the shellholder, it is much cheaper part than the die.

Otherwise, sounds like a reasonable plan.

 

[Darkop]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FCS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd remove the material from the shellholder, it is much cheaper part than the die.

Otherwise, sounds like a reasonable plan. </div></div>

Well I Took the decapping pin out of the die and took my best diamond stone and honed down the base of the die. I ended up taking off .004 and now the Hornady brass chambers and fires. I just went out and fired 10 rounds for function. I'll shoot it again for accuracy to make sure I didn't screw something up. I'm still going to switch to Redding dies but this appears to be OK for the time being.

 

[jbailey]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

Darkop-

What is the lot # of the Hornady factory that you are having problems with?

I'm having zero issues w/ #8150 (or is it 8120? doing from memory here), which I ordered from Midway about a month ago. I plan on reloading this brass (I probably should have gone the AA/Lapua route).

Your Shilen barrel, like my Satern barrel, is a bit tighter than the button cut barrels AA offers and it is possible that the bad Hornady lot is w/in spec of those barrels but no go's our tighter barrels.

 

[jbailey]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Darkop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

AA/Lapua brass
30.4gr Accurate 2520
123 Amax
COL: 2.245 Was the most accurate with a bit of a jump.

5, 5 shot groups averaged .80" at 2495 fps

</div></div>

What barrel length and temp. is this MV at?
I'm getting 2475fps from the factory loads in 40* out of my 18" Saturn.

 

[Darkop]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamesBailey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Darkop-

What is the lot # of the Hornady factory that you are having problems with?

I'm having zero issues w/ #8150 (or is it 8120? doing from memory here), which I ordered from Midway about a month ago. I plan on reloading this brass (I probably should have gone the AA/Lapua route).

Your Shilen barrel, like my Satern barrel, is a bit tighter than the button cut barrels AA offers and it is possible that the bad Hornady lot is w/in spec of those barrels but no go's our tighter barrels.

</div></div>

james,
Hornady factory unprimed brass Lot# 4100300 purchased 2 weeks ago from midway.
19.5" Shilen purchased about 1 month ago.
2495 fps chrono about 10 yds from muzzle, 20f, .80" (3) 5 shot groups. averaged. I need to get a clear blue bird day to run them through the chrono again. I had a crappy cloudy day at 15f when I got those numbers.

I shot it three days ago at 812 yds at a 1'X1' patch of ice hanging on a cliff and used 28MOA (58 in drop) to get there. 3 for 3 shots. I used JBM to get the DOPE and seems pretty close for now. I haven't shot past 220 yds on paper yet. We just got another 2 feet of snow last night so it will be awhile before I get out and get DOPE on paper for actual numbers.

I ordered some 123gr Lapua Senars last night so I am excited to see what they will do. Advertised BC of .547 compared to Amax @ .510.

Anyone know true BC's on these two bullets?

Until that day,
Darkop

 

[jbailey]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Darkop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I ordered some 123gr Lapua Senars last night so I am excited to see what they will do. Advertised BC of .547 compared to Amax @ .510.

Anyone know true BC's on these two bullets?

Until that day,
Darkop
</div></div>

I don't believe either the Lapua or the Amax BC are that high in reality, at least not at velocities we are likely to use them at. For the Lapua 123 to have a BC G1 of 0.547, it would need to have a G1 form factor of 0.461, which is not impossible, but it would put it up there with the best designed VLD bullets (i.e. JLK or Berger VLDs).

On the 123gr AMax I have shot to 250, 300, 325 and 375yds on paper. They group very nicely, but at the MVs I'm getting, they look more like a 0.49 BC to me. I'm using the factory loaded AMax's, so these are not my loads (I do plan on reloading the brass). Heck, out to 300yds I had multiple bullets go thru the same hole or touching holes and this was in 5 to 8 mph winds. Best group of the day at that range was a 0.46moa 5 shot group at 325; worst group was around 1.1moa. No question this is an accurate bullet for an AR delivered projectile.

 

[country888]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

hey, guys this is great. im just now starting to reload for mine. any good advice? i bought 50 pieces of horady brass, and have 100 pieces of lapua coming. horady dies. thanks for any advice

 

[jbailey]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: country888</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hey, guys this is great. im just now starting to reload for mine. any good advice? i bought 50 pieces of horady brass, and have 100 pieces of lapua coming. horady dies. thanks for any advice </div></div>

AA-2520 seems to be the go to powder for the Grendel. I also think the 107gr SMK is an excellent choice for targets out to 600 yds - excellent bullet design (one of the best designed SMKs in their entire bullet line) and a higher MV, giving it a flatter path than the 123 grainers. If you plan on shooting in real heavy wind, against game, or >600 yds, the 123gr AMax is an excellent choice. I wouldn't pay the big dollar premium for the Lapau Scenar, but that is just because I'm cheap

There is some excellent Grendel reloading posts on this forum, many within the last 30 days or so. Spend an hour or so looking thru old threads here...

 

[country888]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

ok, thanks for the info james. I got some of the 123gr smk. may have to try the 107's. I havnt heard many people say much about the 107gr smk's. I do like a smaller weight bullet for ranges out to bout 400yd because of the higher MV. thanks

 

[eleaf]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: country888</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hey, guys this is great. im just now starting to reload for mine. any good advice? i bought 50 pieces of horady brass, and have 100 pieces of lapua coming. horady dies. thanks for any advice </div></div>

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2289896#Post2289896

Should be all the info you need to get started.

 

[polish handgunner]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

I have not tried Hornady brass but i have used both Lapua and AA brass. I favor Lapua.

My favorite load is using 30.5 grains of AA2520 behind 123 A Maxes. Second place is 123 PBT Sierras with the same charge.
Velocities out of my 24" barrel are near 2600 ft/sec.

Prior to this i used AA2230 - that was a mistake - maximum charges gave much slower velocities.

 

[Hummerdawg]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

Isn't the Lapua and AA brass the same brass?

 

[jbailey]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

Here is another thread with a ton of great info:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1748390&page=3

Eleaf and Longrange30 and others have been very kind to share so much of their knowledge w/ us. I have picked up a ton from them - I'm only 2 months into owning and shooting a Grendel. I'm shooting it in a two man Sniper Team match next weekend (Mayberry Club, Maryland), as the spotter. Normally I would have my precision 223Rem semi-auto and 77gr SMK with me, but the Grendel is producing groups in heavy wind that are tough to match w/ mag feed 223Rem.

 

[Darkop]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamesBailey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is another thread with a ton of great info:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1748390&page=3

Eleaf and Longrange30 and others have been very kind to share so much of their knowledge w/ us. I have picked up a ton from them - I'm only 2 months into owning and shooting a Grendel. I'm shooting it in a two man Sniper Team match next weekend (Mayberry Club, Maryland), as the spotter. Normally I would have my precision 223Rem semi-auto and 77gr SMK with me, but the Grendel is producing groups in heavy wind that are tough to match w/ mag feed 223Rem.

</div></div>

I have some time today so I think I'll load some of the Hornady brass I had problems with and go shoot it for accuracy to make sure I didn't screw something up when I modified the sizing die. I'll have to snowshoe out so I wont be shooting past 220 yds.

Country888
the AA brass is made by Lapua. I don't know if there is any brass difference or not. The chepest 6.5 Grendel brass I can find (that is not Hornady) is AA straight from AA at $72.00/100. I have not shot the AA brass enough to know how well it will last.

James,
Good luck at the match, let us know how your team does!

Until that day,
Darkop

 

[eleaf]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Darkop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamesBailey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is another thread with a ton of great info:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1748390&page=3

Eleaf and Longrange30 and others have been very kind to share so much of their knowledge w/ us. I have picked up a ton from them - I'm only 2 months into owning and shooting a Grendel. I'm shooting it in a two man Sniper Team match next weekend (Mayberry Club, Maryland), as the spotter. Normally I would have my precision 223Rem semi-auto and 77gr SMK with me, but the Grendel is producing groups in heavy wind that are tough to match w/ mag feed 223Rem.

</div></div>

I have some time today so I think I'll load some of the Hornady brass I had problems with and go shoot it for accuracy to make sure I didn't screw something up when I modified the sizing die. I'll have to snowshoe out so I wont be shooting past 220 yds.

Country888
the AA brass is made by Lapua. I don't know if there is any brass difference or not. The chepest 6.5 Grendel brass I can find (that is not Hornady) is AA straight from AA at $72.00/100. I have not shot the AA brass enough to know how well it will last.

James,
Good luck at the match, let us know how your team does!

Until that day,
Darkop
</div></div>

The only difference between Lapua and AA brass is the headstamp.

 

[country888]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

Darkop, I have a box of horady brass with the same lot# as you do. I havn't checked the length yet so I hope it will work or I will have a word with horady or Midway. Let me know how the rest of your brass works. thanks

 

[FCS]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Darkop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FCS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd remove the material from the shellholder, it is much cheaper part than the die.

Otherwise, sounds like a reasonable plan. </div></div>

Well I Took the decapping pin out of the die and took my best diamond stone and honed down the base of the die. I ended up taking off .004 and now the Hornady brass chambers and fires. I just went out and fired 10 rounds for function. I'll shoot it again for accuracy to make sure I didn't screw something up. I'm still going to switch to Redding dies but this appears to be OK for the time being. </div></div>

The other reason to take material off of the shellholder is you can now use the trimmed shellholder when you have the same issue with Redding die.
Ask me how I know.

 

[Darkop]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: country888</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Darkop, I have a box of horady brass with the same lot# as you do. I havn't checked the length yet so I hope it will work or I will have a word with horady or Midway. Let me know how the rest of your brass works. thanks </div></div>

I hope it runs for you because i had no luck at all with Hornady.

On a better note though, I took the resized Hornady brass that I ran through my "Shortened" Hornady die and it all ran well today. My accuracy was was not as good, only about 1" @ 100 yds where the same load with the Lapua brass was averaging .80" I think this might have been because of all the messing I did with the brass, I'll resize and reload and see where I get on this next round.

Today I took my M1A out and shot some of the best groups I have ever shot out of it with Hornady 168gr Match rounds. Then I busted icicles off of a cliff at 800 yds. THAT WAS A HOOT!!!

Until that day,
Darkop

 

[country888]

Re: Problem with Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass

Cool darkop, I checked the hornady and lapua brass the other day with a mic and didn't see a huge difference. But the lapua brass just seems to be better made. I think I will stick with the lapua brass from now on.