Problem with LC 30-06 Brass

[jakhamr81]

I'm using an RCBS full length die that's giving me problems resizing LC brass. It works perfectly fine with Winchester and other brands but with LC brass the shoulder is pushed further back. I'm assuming because of the extra thickness. Is there a die that's better suited for military brass?

Pic shows LC on the right

 

[Deleted member 10043]

What is stamped on the base and was it fired before?

 

[jakhamr81]

75 and once fired I'm assuming. It still had the red seal around the primer.

I should mention that I'm only using Hornady One-Shot case lube, same amount on both brands.

 

[m1match]

I've reloaded a lot of LC 30-06 using an RCBS full length die but I quit using Hornady One Shot because I was getting too many stuck cases in various calibers. I've been using Dillon Case Lube which is a lanolin lube for over 20 years now. Do your LC cases feel like they are taking a lot more force to resize or are they difficult on the downstroke to pull out of the die? That could indicate a lube issue and that your close to getting a case stuck. I would expect you to need to adjust the dies for shoulder bump because the LC cases will have a different amount of springback. Maybe call RCBS tech support and ask them?

 

[FLIGHT762]

What tool / gauge are you using to measure the shoulder with?

 

[Deleted member 113831]

LC 30-06 is usually way long. It looks to me like the case mouth is bottoming out on the inside of the die and buckling the shoulder before it touches the die.

 

[m1match]

Skookum brings up a good point- are you using an RCBS X die or a regular full length resizing die.

 

[jakhamr81]

That could be. I'm using a standard die. I'll have to look into the length after work this evening.

 

[1J04]

It "appears" the shoulder is bulged yet the neck isn't sized all the way to the shoulder if you look at the ring just above the shoulder. "Appears" you're bottoming out, as stated above.

 

[j-huskey]

1. How did you set up the die ? (Example, feeler gauge .006 between die and shell holder at full extension).

2. Do you reset the die with different brass ?

3. Or, are you getting this result using the same setting (example. 006) for all your brass ?

Curious because I load a lot of mil 3006 brass.... a LOT... i have seen things...

I have LC Match brass from 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 68. Each has it's own level of work hardened, age hardened, and spring back.
Each requires it's own separate setting in the die to set shoulders to a measured 0 headspace.

I have LC Ball from 52 to 69. 69 was the last big dump through DCM that I participated in. Same comments as above.

We loaded for shooting in a 1919A1 belt fed. No problems with all set to same headspace. Setting headspace was very critical to us....

The differences in weight in such a range 52 to 69 is pretty extreme. The differences in thickness causing weight variances is pretty extreme. The amount of force to size each variant is different.

Comparing weights, thickness, and hardness btw mil and Winchester is educational. We have cross sectioned brass b4 just to educate others....

With a Mo DeFina gauge checked against a new proven chamber reamer, and multiple lots/years/mfg of brass, each brass lot takes a different depth setting to get 0...

If you take 50 cases and anneal 25, they will require two die settings to maintain 0 when sizing.

We can figure this out over the net.... its doable...

We see different results with different presses due to press spring/stretch as well....

And there are some dies that work with one brass that dont work with another in some extreme cases, rare, but there.

Best to you.
vr

 

[j-huskey]

I will offer....

A. Take the die, run it down to touch the shell holder at full extension.
B. Back it off two turns.
C. Select a lot of both mil and win cases.
D. Measure them at neck, shoulder, and base, as well as fired headspace. Record this
E. Size 5 cases mil, 5 cases Win, liberally lubricated.
F. Note the difference in relative use of force in sizing.
G. Repeat D after step E. Record...
H. Reset the die deeper by 1/3 turn.

I. With different cases, repeat EFG.

J. Reset die 1/3 turn deeper... repeat I...

K. Repeat J...

Now you will have 5 cases mil/win sized at 4 die settings, measured b4 and after sizing.
With the recorded results, you will know exactly the difference, different brass sizes at each setting.

And bc you are still a full turn above the shell holder, you should not have destroyed any brass....

And then... using 0 as shellholder touches die.... if you take the 2 turns above zero, 1-2/3 ^0, 1-1/3 ^0, brass and size each again, at 1 turn above 0, you may see different results because each will take a different level of force sizing. This seen difference will help show you the setting needed for each lot of different brass.


Now, a bulged shoulder as shown in your picture can be caused by more than one thing...
A. As stated, case mouth is hitting too soon bc case is too long. There are other ways to know this.

B. The size of mil case dimensions fired in a fat chamber, may move lubricant differently than slimmer cases... too much lube on a fat case neck and shoulder moves down under pressure, and in turn moves the shoulder in strange ways.

C. Bc the case is so fat, more force needed to compress the brass etc, the press flex may be great enough that the shoulder hasn't sized down yet because press flex gave added distance. Leaving the shoulder pressed fatter at that point in the process, where. 003" more sizing would resize the shoulder width to where it's not visibly fatter.
c-1. Another. 002" compression could then show the too much lube wrinkling of the shoulder...

There are several ways to find the culprit depicted in the picture.

If you have this problem (B), the A-J die setting method will show you excess lube movement to the shoulder and answer that as well as provide the other data.

Best to you,
vr

 

[Dstoenner]

I use a Hornady FL sizing die with Dillion spray lube. I stand all of my cases up and then spray the mouths letting the over spray lube the sides. I then knock them all flat in my plastic bin and work them around in my hands so get the spray even on the outside of the case. I do both LC and LC Match. LC brass is really hard compared to Remington or Winchester. Lapua seems to be in between.

But all of my sized brass comes out the same lengths to within a few thousands. Not like you are showing.

David