Problem with Redding Premium Die set for 300 Win Mag

[E_T_G]

Hi All.
I decided to spring for the 3 die Redding Premium dies for 300 Win Mag. The cases were Federal and had been wet tumbled after decapping. This was the first time I used One Shot lube. I sprayed top and bottom halves of the cartridges using loading block. Let them dry for a little over an hour - 110 outside and hotter in garage so they were dry. The first cartrige was harder than I thought it should be. This was my first time loading for the 300 Win Mag. Second cartridge went in hard and this time pulled the rim off. Took me over an hour and two gallons of sweat to get cart out. Took the die apart and cleaned with lacquer thinner (I cleaned it before I used it as well). Shot some one shot up assembled die and let it dry. Every cart I tried would seize with a half inch of case remaining to size. I wasn't going to go through another stuck cart exercise so I tried the lee dies I got but never tried. The Lee sized every cart without a hitch. I filled out Redding's customer support form but haven't heard anything back. I cycled the Lee sized cartridges through my SSG04 and they were smooth as silk. I bought the Redding after reading post and I wanted the micrometer seating die and the neck sizing die. I'm about to send them back to Midway if I don't hear from Redding soon - there are other brands out there for the money. I have been reloading for 50+ years so not new to reloading. Anyone have any suggestions/reccomendations. This was my first experience with Redding - makes me think all the Redding raves are just hype.
Thanks,
E_T_G

 

[6.5SH]

Try a lanolin based lube instead.

 

[E_T_G]

I have some lanolin and alcohol lubricant I can try but why so hard in the Redding and not the Lee. If it's sizing it down more than needed it will work harden the brass faster. Tomorrow I am going to try some brand new Winchester cases and see what it does.

 

[supercorndogs]

I have some lanolin and alcohol lubricant I can try but why so hard in the Redding and not the Lee. If it's sizing it down more than needed it will work harden the brass faster. Tomorrow I am going to try some brand new Winchester cases and see what it does.

How much is each bumping the shoulder? How much is each reducing the body diameter? What does the brass look like coming out of dies? What does the surface finish look like inside the dies? Where is the decapper set in the redding die? Is it so high it is impeding the neck area of the die? Did you lube the brass?

 

[rustyinbend]

Is it the Redding Type-S Full Length Bushing Die? Did you remove the decapping pin? What size bushing are you using? How many times has the brass been fired? I use Imperial Sizing Wax on my Redding Type-S FL Die and it works perfectly every time. Full length sizing of 300-WM cases is very important as the expansion in the base is very common. If you've only neck-sized this brass in the past, and the bases are out of spec ... that could cause what's happening as the die desperately tries to bump the shoulder, and, compress the base. Just something to look at.

 

[ZiaHunter]

Probably a not a bad idea to invest in a Larry Willis collet die.

 

[supercorndogs]

The part the LW die sizes is not going to effect sizing in a FL die. It's a part that gets missed by the FL die.

 

[Chris1972]

There is nothing wrong with Redding dies. There is something wrong with those Redding dies though. Don’t hesitate to send them back.


I use the premium 3 die set as well as the competition die set. They’re good dies.

I don’t frown on Lee like most people. Lee dies put some money in my pocket.

 

[E_T_G]

I'll try to cover all in one post. The brass looked like once fired - picked up in the desert, the box and inside shell holders tossed aside. I couldn't see any signs the cases had ever been resized. I de-capped and wet tumbled them. I was using the FL resizing die from the Redding 3 die premium die set that includ3ed the FL die, a neck sizing die and a micrometer seating die. To answer the question of bump[ - on the one that got stuck I have no idea - it was destroyed. The following cases would not go in the last half inch so there was no bumping the shoulder at all. To night I'm going to try a brand new Western case and see if that siezes as well. If it does they are going back. The Lee dies sized like you would expect with no need for abnormal pressure. Without it going all the way up I cannot tell what size the cartridge would have been. The Redding FL die was unusable at least with the lube I was using.

 

[Chris1972]

On another note, check the expander, they may have gotten mixed up and you have something very wrong in there. I’ve gotten products like this from midway.

Also, the neck die and fl die use different expanders in that set. I have no idea why. I use the floating one in both.

 

[Rocketmandb]

@E_T_G - some notes:

- Think about why you can't get the brass into the die. The Redding dies are obviously slightly smaller than the Lee dies. Is this a bad thing? Not necessarily - no one ever got a case stuck in their chamber after firing because they sized a case down too much. The other way around?... yeah. Ideally, you want a perfectly sized die that engages your case at just the right amount. Will you get that with non-custom dies? Possibly - possibly not. Does it matter a whole lot? As long as you're sizing down enough, and doing so consistently - no, it does not, unless the die and your chamber are dramatically off from one another.

- Don't use range brass. 1) You have no clue about the chamber size of the rifle that fired it. This can lead, in the right circumstances, to stuck cases after firing. 2) Collecting and using different sized brass can cause inconsistent performance and possible pressure issues if you're loading close to max - different brands of brass likely have different case capacities.

- Don't use Hornady spray lube for resizing. I love their spray/cleaning lube for my rifle, but with their case lube, it's too easy to not get proper coverage, which can result in a case stuck in your die. When I first started loading, I used the spray - got a few stuck cases - switched Hornady Unique - not one stuck case since.

 

[E_T_G]

I will agree with Rocketmanb on the not using Hornady spray lube. As for range brass, out in the desert you find the box for Remington 30-06. The plastic shell holders laying on the ground along with 15-20 nice and shiny Remington 30-06 cases. I think the chances of it being once fired are pretty good. Now as to if it was shot from a tight chambered target gun or a 1919A4 I have no idea but you don't know that about any brass you buy from a vendor either.

Now for the Redding dies - I took the die apart and scrubbed it down again with acetone this time. I took a swab and lightly coated the inside and expander with Imperial. Lubed a new case with Imperial and it sized as expected. Next I tried the cases I had sized with the Lee dies, cleaned and lubed with Imperial. They ran through the die as expected. The last I tries were some once fired Norma brass. Cleaned, lubed with Imperial and they went through like they should. So, I will withhold judgement on the Redding dies until I get some more fired brass to try. My mind is pretty well made up about the spray lube though.

 

[supercorndogs]

I have sized thousands of cases with one shot spray lube. I always wonder what causes some people to have trouble with it.

 

[918v]

Redding dies need to be broken in prior to full length sizing. Clean the die out and make sure no brass deposits inside from the stuck cases. Then lube up a case with sizing wax, either Imperial or Hornady or whatever. Also lube up the inside of the die. Then gently run the case into the die until you feel resistance. At that point pull out and relube the case. Then run the case into the die again, but a little deeper. Pull out and relube. Now a little deeper. Keep repeating the cycle until you reach the desired shoulder bump.

Then do it again with another case. The third case should size without any issues. I think it’s the honed inner surface finish of the die that needs to be broken in.

 

[Rocketmandb]

Now as to if it was shot from a tight chambered target gun or a 1919A4 I have no idea but you don't know that about any brass you buy from a vendor either.

If you're talking about buying once-fired brass from a vendor, you are correct - that's why you don't buy once-fired brass. It's not an issue if it's fired from a tight chamber. It's an issue if fired from a slightly oversized chamber, then run through a die that doesn't size it down enough for your chamber.

Example of this:

On the last barrel I got cut for my 300 PRC, I sent the blank to the same smith who used the same reamer as used on the previous barrel. I used the same brass I had been using on the previous barrel, processed through the same die. First shot: stuck case.

Why did this happen? It turns out the smith had bought a fancy new machine to cut barrels on. It was far more precise than the previous, meaning that it didn't wobble as much. This led to the chamber being slightly smaller, which caused stuck cases. To a case, they chamber fine, they don't extract.

 

[Rocketmandb]

I have sized thousands of cases with one shot spray lube. I always wonder what causes some people to have trouble with it.

Could be any number of things, including:

- Not shaking the can enough.
- Not evenly applying the spray.
- Having a die that sizes significantly smaller than the chamber (more force on the case = more friction).

 

[lariat]

If you're talking about buying once-fired brass from a vendor, you are correct - that's why you don't buy once-fired brass. It's not an issue if it's fired from a tight chamber. It's an issue if fired from a slightly oversized chamber, then run through a die that doesn't size it down enough for your chamber.

Example of this:

On the last barrel I got cut for my 300 PRC, I sent the blank to the same smith who used the same reamer as used on the previous barrel. I used the same brass I had been using on the previous barrel, processed through the same die. First shot: stuck case.

Why did this happen? It turns out the smith had bought a fancy new machine to cut barrels on. It was far more precise than the previous, meaning that it didn't wobble as much. This led to the chamber being slightly smaller, which caused stuck cases. To a case, they chamber fine, they don't extract.

I have a question: why would a lathe with a lower runout cause cases to stick? If the chamber is cut to SAAMI or even min SAAMI specs it should still chamber and extract reliably. Not doubting you cause I have seen some weird shit that was hard to explain, just wondering.

I honestly have gotten the point that I request the drawings of the reamer that is cutting my chamber just so I have a beginning point of reference. The actual cut in the chamber is the authority, but it’s a good piece of into to have.

And the One Shot can go in the trash. I too have had my share of stuck cases with it. After going back to my original lube, no issues.

 

[Rocketmandb]

I have a question: why would a lathe with a lower runout cause cases to stick? If the chamber is cut to SAAMI or even min SAAMI specs it should still chamber and extract reliably. Not doubting you cause I have seen some weird shit that was hard to explain, just wondering.

I honestly have gotten the point that I request the drawings of the reamer that is cutting my chamber just so I have a beginning point of reference. The actual cut in the chamber is the authority, but it’s a good piece of into to have.

It's all about case/brass spring back. When you fire, your chamber will expand very slightly, while your brass expands a lot (relatively speaking). The brass expands to the dimensions of the slightly expanded chamber, then both the chamber and brass will spring back. Being hard steel, the chamber goes back to its original size. The brass is softer, so will not spring back to its original size. It will always be slightly larger than when it went in - this is why we size it. The more the brass had to expand, the more it will spring back - conversely, the less it expands, the less it will spring back. If the brass is too big (but still fits in the chamber), it doesn't spring back enough when the chamber springs back, then the chamber will essentially grab onto it. You now have a stuck case in your rifle.

On the reamer drawing thing, drawings don't matter if the reamer isn't cut correctly or is old and slightly worn. I now buy reamers for every caliber I shoot (except for my 308, which is just a wind practice rifle).

 

[lariat]

It's all about case/brass spring back. When you fire, your chamber will expand very slightly, while your brass expands a lot (relatively speaking). The brass expands to the dimensions of the slightly expanded chamber, then both the chamber and brass will spring back. Being hard steel, the chamber goes back to its original size. The brass is softer, so will not spring back to its original size. It will always be slightly larger than when it went in - this is why we size it. The more the brass had to expand, the more it will spring back - conversely, the less it expands, the less it will spring back. If the brass is too big (but still fits in the chamber), it doesn't spring back enough when the chamber springs back, then the chamber will essentially grab onto it. You now have a stuck case in your rifle.

On the reamer drawing thing, drawings don't matter if the reamer isn't cut correctly or is old and slightly worn. I now buy reamers for every caliber I shoot (except for my 308, which is just a wind practice rifle).

No argument with the idiosyncrasies of each reamer and used ones. This is the point I am making when I say the drawing is a reference tool and the chamber is the authority. Buying your own reamers is the good way to go IMO. But if reamers are designed to SAAMI specs unless you are going alternate routes and making custom reamers. Otherwise, a chamber that is “tighter” because the lathe is running true is simply and only a chamber that is closer to what it should be. If you are running SAAMI spec reamers (and it is itself fully within spec) and your brass is sticking there is something else wrong. Especially if the chamber passes go-NoGo gages correctly.

Not trying to doubt your or be an ass, just curious. What did you end up doing to get the rifle running right?

 

[Rocketmandb]

If you are running SAAMI spec reamers (and it is itself fully within spec) and your brass is sticking there is something else wrong. Especially if the chamber passes go-NoGo gages correctly.

Not necessarily. You could have a chamber on the minimum size of SAAMI and a sizing die on the max side of SAAMI and likely run into issues. Hornady dies are horrid in this regard (high side of the equation). If you measure your new brass, you will likely find that some measurements are on the low side of (or even below) SAAMI specs.

What did you end up doing to get the rifle running right?

I put the old brass on the shelf, had Whidden make me a custom die, and lived with an undersized chamber. It shot exceedingly well, but I was limited on the high side of charge weights due to the smaller case volume. It's still on my PRC, but I'm getting three new barrels cut in September with a new Manson reamer.

 

[lariat]

Not necessarily. You could have a chamber on the minimum size of SAAMI and a sizing die on the max side of SAAMI and likely run into issues. Hornady dies are horrid in this regard (high side of the equation). If you measure your new brass, you will likely find that some measurements are on the low side of (or even below) SAAMI specs.



I put the old brass on the shelf, had Whidden make me a custom die, and lived with an undersized chamber. It shot exceedingly well, but I was limited on the high side of charge weights due to the smaller case volume. It's still on my PRC, but I'm getting three new barrels cut in September with a new Manson reamer.

All of this makes sense.

 

[918v]

Brass springs back too. The larger the fired brass the larger it comes out of the sizer die. The same die will size to different dimensions depending on the diameter of the fired brass.

 

[lariat]

Brass springs back too. The larger the fired brass the larger it comes out of the sizer die. The same die will size to different dimensions depending on the diameter of the fired brass.

I went down this path some long years back, and the spring back after sizing was different between different brass manufacturers. Between different metallurgy and thicknesses it became a zoo. It really showed the wisdom in just buying new brass from the same mfr and same lot if possible. Using mixed brass for a lever action with iron sights or wheel gun I could see. But for OCD accuracy it’s going to be a frustrating affair in my experience. You can spend many hours getting the brass OD the same, case necks the same thickness, etc and they still may not provide consistent results. It’s just not worth it unless it’s just for general non precision shooting of pigs or some such and new brass isn’t an option. With range brass I worry about what it’s been through before I get to it. I have done it, but it’s not without the knowledge of the risk and work to inspect each one. Even then I have no expectations of consistency.

 

[918v]

OP:

Measure your brass. What is the diameter at the shoulder and the fattest, most expanded part of the base?

 

[themightytimmah]

I went down this path some long years back, and the spring back after sizing was different between different brass manufacturers. Between different metallurgy and thicknesses it became a zoo. It really showed the wisdom in just buying new brass from the same mfr and same lot if possible. Using mixed brass for a lever action with iron sights or wheel gun I could see. But for OCD accuracy it’s going to be a frustrating affair in my experience. You can spend many hours getting the brass OD the same, case necks the same thickness, etc and they still may not provide consistent results. It’s just not worth it unless it’s just for general non precision shooting of pigs or some such and new brass isn’t an option. With range brass I worry about what it’s been through before I get to it. I have done it, but it’s not without the knowledge of the risk and work to inspect each one. Even then I have no expectations of consistency.

Mixed pickup brass is for handguns and ARs! The cost of new premium brass in a precision bolt rifle, once spread across 5-10 firings, is less than the cost per shot of barrel wear.

When you figure in brass life sometimes it gets really weird. It was cheaper to run my 300 PRC on Lapua brass ($1.50, 10 firings) than once fired Hornady ($.80 and the pockets blew out after 3-4 firings).

 

[Baron23]

I have sized thousands of cases with one shot spray lube. I always wonder what causes some people to have trouble with it.

Yeah, I also have used it without problem.

Now, I did get some brass galled into the neck area of the FL die and didn't notice the striations until I had sized quite a few (lack of attention to detail although they shot the striations flat again). Used BT C2 to get it out and then put semichrome on a bore mop and polished the insides. Not sure that did anything or not.

 

[shoot4fun]

I have sized thousands of cases with one shot spray lube. I always wonder what causes some people to have trouble with it.

One Shot is all I use now, after many years of Imperial lube.
A friend at Hornady passed some One Shot product along to my boss and I when I was in the firearms industry. Boss tried it and said it was great so I decided to try it. Nothing but heartache. Stuck a case; resprayed them all again. Stuck a case; cleaned the die and sprayed some inside. Suck a case; sprayed some more. stuck a case; put the can away and started over with Imperial.
That was the end of it until boss said something about the One Shot CLEANER & LUBE. WTF!?
Went back to the cabinet and (felt like an idiot) I had been using the wrong One Shot product. Cans looked exactly alike and I never realized he had passed on some of each product.

 

[supercorndogs]

I use lanolin and 99% when I can set it for long time and let the alcohol evaporate. I use one shot most of the time. The only stuck cases I can think of came from forcing a case into a new die. Or putting an un lubed case into a die. I have had a few dies where i had to pull the case and relube. I would suppose polishing dies with some 600 might mitigate that right off the bat. Which is usually what I do now when I get dies. Just a few turns on a mop to nock down the rough edges.

 

[Punkur67]

Throw that garbage hornady lube in the trash and use imperial die wax. After a few stuck cases with hornady I changed to imperial and have never stuck another case

 

[supercorndogs]

Could be any number of things, including:

- Not shaking the can enough.
- Not evenly applying the spray.
- Having a die that sizes significantly smaller than the chamber (more force on the case = more friction).

Well good luck getting anyone having trouble to measure their brass.

Surely they can't all be that simple.

Maybe their lube flashes off or is ineffective at temperatures in excess of 105. Maybe their lube is ineffective with some solvent people use. Maybe it doesn't work if mixed some other lubes, as poster in another thread discussing one shot hypothesized.

I don't know, all I know is year in and year out, one shot has worked like a champ for me. It would take an extra day of time just lube one of my buckets of 223 brass with imperial. It takes about 60 seconds to spray some one shot in there while shaking the bucket around.

I have even used one shot with the LW collet die sizing just above the belt. That operation takes some force and some good lube.

 

[Bobby Ball]

For what it's worth I have the full length type S for 300 PRC and I stuck 3 cases. I thought the same thing as you. And talking to my gunsmith, he advised me that I would need to start adding significantly more lube to my cases and not spray on lube. So now I'm on the Hornady one shot standard style case lube ( I think that's what it is. It's brown/maroon colored). I had always been nervous about denting the shoulders with too much lube. Turned out I was wrong and now doing it that way they glide in and out smoothly and I haven't had an issue since with hundreds of rounds going through. Maybe it will help.

 

[shoot4fun]

For what it's worth I have the full length type S for 300 PRC and I stuck 3 cases. I thought the same thing as you. And talking to my gunsmith, he advised me that I would need to start adding significantly more lube to my cases and not spray on lube. So now I'm on the Hornady one shot standard style case lube ( I think that's what it is. It's brown/maroon colored). I had always been nervous about denting the shoulders with too much lube. Turned out I was wrong and now doing it that way they glide in and out smoothly and I haven't had an issue since with hundreds of rounds going through. Maybe it will help.

Are you saying your gunsmith thinks the size of the 300PRC requires lubes other than One Shot Spray?
That would be quite odd, as I regularly use One Shot on my 300NM Improved and 338LM brass and have never had an issue.
I always shake the can for a couple minutes before spraying. My brass is laid out in an old film developing pan so I spray, tilt the pan to roll the brass, spray again and repeat. For really tough jobs like 300WM, NM and LM I will spray, let the brass sit for a couple minutes and then spray again. I think failures (stuck cases) with One Shot are from trying to use the product too sparingly.