Problems with calibrating (FL sizing) the base of the 223REM Lapua brass 6× and 15× fired

[MarkyMark007]

Hallo

I have problems with calibrating the base of the 223REM Lapua brass, 6× and 15× fired.

The base of the brass is so tough or big, that it is very hard to size it with my Whidden bushing Full Length sizing die. Some of the brass even stuck in my die !!
No matter how much lube (RCBS or Redding BIO) I put on the brass. Brass was allways annealed. And I allways measure shoulder bump and the brass was never too much sized. But I cant measure base of the brass very accurately.

So I want to throw brass away, but I tested one more thing: I very lightly polished my base of the brass, and now the sizing proces was smooth like normal.

I observed this with the 2 different LOT-s of Lapua brass. In one LOT it was this phenomen at 15× firing, and with other LOT was this at 6× firing.

Is this caused because of hot load, or too big chamber, or bad die...? My loads are usualy with 95gr Sierra at 2750fps with Vihtavuori N140...

Sincerely, Mark

 

[Dolomite]

Do you have a match chamber or wylde chamber? can you use your calipers to measure the base before and after sizing? before and after polishing?

 

[Haney]

Hallo

I have problems with calibrating the base of the 223REM Lapua brass, 6× and 15× fired.

The base of the brass is so tough or big, that it is very hard to size it with my Whidden bushing Full Length sizing die. Some of the brass even stuck in my die !!
No matter how much lube (RCBS or Redding BIO) I put on the brass. Brass was allways annealed. And I allways measure shoulder bump and the brass was never too much sized. But I cant measure base of the brass very accurately.

So I want to throw brass away, but I tested one more thing: I very lightly polished my base of the brass, and now the sizing proces was smooth like normal.

I observed this with the 2 different LOT-s of Lapua brass. In one LOT it was this phenomen at 15× firing, and with other LOT was this at 6× firing.

Is this caused because of hot load, or too big chamber, or bad die...? My loads are usualy with 95gr Sierra at 2750fps with Vihtavuori N140...

Sincerely, Mark

View attachment 8290452

 

[Haney]

Hallo

I have problems with calibrating the base of the 223REM Lapua brass, 6× and 15× fired.

The base of the brass is so tough or big, that it is very hard to size it with my Whidden bushing Full Length sizing die. Some of the brass even stuck in my die !!
No matter how much lube (RCBS or Redding BIO) I put on the brass. Brass was allways annealed. And I allways measure shoulder bump and the brass was never too much sized. But I cant measure base of the brass very accurately.

So I want to throw brass away, but I tested one more thing: I very lightly polished my base of the brass, and now the sizing proces was smooth like normal.

I observed this with the 2 different LOT-s of Lapua brass. In one LOT it was this phenomen at 15× firing, and with other LOT was this at 6× firing.

Is this caused because of hot load, or too big chamber, or bad die...? My loads are usualy with 95gr Sierra at 2750fps with Vihtavuori N140...

Sincerely, Mark

View attachment 8290452

 

[Haney]

 

[Cfshooter]

@Haney , I guess that sums it up

It does seem odd though that after polish it works but doesn’t with lube. Have you tried cleaning/polishing the die?

 

[spife7980]

I see that I must clarify things for retarded american consumers:

you dont know what are you doing.

much better than american.

you live in america. what else you expect?

are you fat and dumb?

yes. a lot of stupid retards, which doesnt know shit.

you are not very smart, arent you? did you finished primary school? follow the money?

stop asking loosers for equipement, because they dont know shit about it.

sorry frank, but this is how ALL barrel producers are doing. so it's hard to believe that you don't do it that way.

This one was wonderful^^

it's not my fault that you are retarded and dont know shit how thing are working in this business.

this is because retarded americans stockpile reloading stuff, which they wont shoot in 50 years...

you are stupid as fuck and dont know shit! everything you wrote is WRONG !

Who’s the retard now Mark? Go fuck yourself you arrogant piece of shit.

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

Hi,

That is some grungy looking brass. A 95gn sierra at 2750 is very high pressure. Perhaps you should read a reloading manual.


Sincerely,
TheOfficeTRex

 

[Capt45]

Thank you Jesus for a thoughtful, non confrontational response. There's way to many egomaniacal responses and non helpful trash verbiage going on on this Forum. Didn't your momma teach you that " if you can't say anything good, don't say anything at all"?

 

[Cascade Hemi]

One of the best threads in a while.

 

[MarkyMark007]

Do you have a match chamber or wylde chamber? can you use your calipers to measure the base before and after sizing? before and after polishing?

normal-standard 223REM Lothar Walther chamber.

 

[MarkyMark007]

That is some grungy looking brass. A 95gn sierra at 2750 is very high pressure. Perhaps you should read a reloading manual.

i dont clean my brass.

95gr at 2750fps in my 32' barrel with very very long freebore does not seems to be very hot. primer pockets last for at least 10× firing at this speed. his is standard, not too hot F-TR load.

 

[MarkyMark007]

Who’s the retard now Mark? Go fuck yourself you arrogant piece of shit.

I like your response much much more than standard response from retarded shills on snipers-hide, who shill to new reloaders the most overpriced equipement...

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Objectively the OP probably eat paint chips. He should probably help himself.

 

[Capt45]

AND you respondents continue to make my point. Bloviating clowns.

 

[Im2bent]

If it was a bad chamber why did it take 6 firings to fuck up the brass? Wouldn't it be fubared on the first firing or would spring back prolong the process?

 

[spife7980]

AND you respondents continue to make my point. Bloviating clowns.

Shut the fuck up, you are just as bad as Mark. Go back to freaking out about arken.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

AND you respondents continue to make my point. Bloviating clowns.

You really helped OP with all of your technical knowledge.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

i dont clean my brass.

95gr at 2750fps in my 32' barrel with very very long freebore does not seems to be very hot. primer pockets last for at least 10× firing at this speed. his is standard, not too hot F-TR load.

LOLOLOL......the reason we clean brass is to avoid part of the situation you have. That's why polishing (cleaning) the base helped. And the reason it's happening with brass that's been fired 6x.....is because the die needs cleaning.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Mainly responding to help anyone who may be reading and face a similar issue. Clean brass doesn't shoot better than dirty. But, we clean (even using a rag and getting the major stuff off is better than nothing) so that we don't gunk up our dies (or chamber).

The OP is one of the worst offenders for putting out completely wrong information. So, be warned when reading his posts and attempting to learn.

 

[Schütze]

Op must be just fucking with us….

Amazon product ASIN B000TTILBC
This, and polishing your die if still serviceable should do it.

 

[Capt45]

Shut the fuck up, you are just as bad as Mark. Go back to freaking out about arken.

AND AGAIN you prove the point. Keep it up, that's great.

 

[B y r o n]

And no one mentions that running the brass through a small base die would probably resolve the issue. Imperial Sizing Die Wax is the other half of the solution.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

QL says conservatively 70kPSI. OP is retarded.

 

[Haney]

Thank you Jesus for a thoughtful, non confrontational response. There's way to many egomaniacal responses and non helpful trash verbiage going on on this Forum. Didn't your momma teach you that " if you can't say anything good, don't say anything at all"?

Look who is full of shit .

 

[Haney]

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Use of the word "polishing" is the key. We don't really know if he was cleaning the brass or removing material.

Definitely. I'm assuming his "lightly" means more cleaning than removing material. But, he's not too bright, so.....50/50.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

OP is retarded.

Also........yes.

 

[FredHammer]

And no one mentions that running the brass through a small base die would probably resolve the issue. Imperial Sizing Die Wax is the other half of the solution.

Amazing ain't it! I was going to mention this little nugget, but I see you beat me to it!

 

[FredHammer]

How's he going to get the brass into a small base die if he can't get it into a normal die?

Because he uses a SB before this problem arises.

 

[FredHammer]

This problem happened in his chamber. Wouldn'tna mattered what kind of die he was using. Think about it.

The SB die returns the brass to a smaller state at the base than the regular die. He keeps doing this and they will fit and fire. Brass stretch will cause a short case life, but the shit will fit and fire.

Really though, after seeing this:

I see that I must clarify things for retarded american consumers:

you dont know what are you doing.

much better than american.

you live in america. what else you expect?

are you fat and dumb?

yes. a lot of stupid retards, which doesnt know shit.

you are not very smart, arent you? did you finished primary school? follow the money?

stop asking loosers for equipement, because they dont know shit about it.

sorry frank, but this is how ALL barrel producers are doing. so it's hard to believe that you don't do it that way.

This one was wonderful^^

it's not my fault that you are retarded and dont know shit how thing are working in this business.

this is because retarded americans stockpile reloading stuff, which they wont shoot in 50 years...

I don't give two fucks about his chamber or problems!

 

[Kadams1563]

So I have learned this week that

1. people actually size brass by just screwing the die down as far as it goes with no measurement tools.

2. People just throw dirty brass in the die and keep reloading it until there is a problem.


I could have saved so much money if all these steps I do are pointless. Wow….

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

So I have learned this week that

1. people actually size brass by just screwing the die down as far as it goes with no measurement tools.

2. People just throw dirty brass in the die and keep reloading it until there is a problem.


I could have saved so much money if all these steps I do are pointless. Wow….

You'd be absolutely shocked how many people just screw the die down. We get calls about it all the time.


And, it's not really their fault. Check out this video. Hornady says to just screw it down until it stops and it will resize to saami minimum. Literally tells them to just adjust down and no further adjustments are needed.

 

[FredHammer]

You'd be absolutely shocked how many people just screw the die down. We get calls about it all the time.


And, it's not really their fault. Check out this video. Hornady says to just screw it down until it stops and it will resize to saami minimum. Literally tells them to just adjust down and no further adjustments are needed.

Then you get the manufacturer apologists that post they do no wrong and the know everything...

 

[Capt45]

Comprehension is SO hard for some people.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Then you get the manufacturer apologists that post they do no wrong and the know everything...

Yea, I mean....it's a tough one. It should "probably" work that way (if you wanted to go back to saami minimum....that's another convo though).

But many times, the dies and press just don't work that way without adjusting and measuring.

 

[FredHammer]

Yea, I mean....it's a tough one. It should "probably" work that way (if you wanted to go back to saami minimum....that's another convo though).

But many times, the dies and press just don't work that way without adjusting and measuring.

And for our next mental mind fuck to the challenged reloader..."The Redding Competition Shell Holders!" Muahahahahaha

 

[B y r o n]

If a piece of brass doesn't want to enter a standard sizing die then it has expanded more than expected and the die lube is not doing the proper job of providing enough lubrication. I brought up SB sizing die because it will bring the brass down to a proper size. As I said Imperial Sizing Die Wax was the second half of the solution because it will provide enough lubrication to size the brass.

What hasn't been mentioned is the press being used to size the brass. Not all presses have the same leverage. The press could also be part of the problem.

 

[Capt45]

Here's one way to achieve proper headspace while full length sizing:

 

[B y r o n]

Brass hardens with repeated firings, that is a fact. If the press doesn't have the force or the lube doesn't do the job, the brass will not enter the die. Belted magnums have the same issue, sized case will not enter the chamber after multiple firings. In this case a multiple fired non-belted case does not want to enter the sizing die. Products like Imperial Sizing Die Wax, SB sizing dies and the Willis Belted Magnum Collet Sizing die allow reloader's to overcome these issues.

 

[B y r o n]

It won't fix everything

I never said it would, I only tried to point out that there were options that might solve this issue.

 

[MarkyMark007]

Mainly responding to help anyone who may be reading and face a similar issue. Clean brass doesn't shoot better than dirty. But, we clean (even using a rag and getting the major stuff off is better than nothing) so that we don't gunk up our dies (or chamber).

The OP is one of the worst offenders for putting out completely wrong information. So, be warned when reading his posts and attempting to learn.

well well well: https://support.leeprecision.net/en/knowledgebase/article/dirty-brass

We do not recommend polishing your brass before resizing it. The oxidation and soot act as a lubricant when sizing which will make it easier for you to resize your cases. Also, clean brass tends to gall or leave deposits behind, which will build up and scratch your cases. While the scratching and scoring doesn't look pretty, it will not effect how your reloads perform at all.

my brass is NOT DIRTY, is just not shiny because I dont post pictures of my rounds on instagram...

 

[MarkyMark007]

As I said Imperial Sizing Die Wax was the second half of the solution because it will provide enough lubrication to size the brass.

What hasn't been mentioned is the press being used to size the brass. Not all presses have the same leverage. The press could also be part of the problem.

I use water based lubricant from RCBS or Redding, and even if I lube my cases too much, some of them will stuck in the Whidden die.

Press is RCBS Summit, with cam-over when sizing my brass.

I use shims to precisely adjust headspace, just like SAC dies (instead of Redding competition shellholders).

at bottom line I think Whidder dies are quite a junk. because a lot of people have problems with Whidden products... It probably mismatch ordinarly chamber...

 

[MarkyMark007]

QL says conservatively 70kPSI. OP is retarded.

you dont know how to use QL, and you dont know my dimensions of loaded round nor long freebore.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

well well well: https://support.leeprecision.net/en/knowledgebase/article/dirty-brass



my brass is NOT DIRTY, is just not shiny because I dont post pictures of my rounds on instagram...

LOLOL. I just posted a video above where Hornady instructs people to adjust their dies down to the shell holder, not to adjust them after, and shows no measurements.

And you think posting an article from makers of some of the worst loading gear available telling you the soot is lubricant and that scratched brass is fine......is somehow good information?

Also, I realize English is not your first language (and neither is logic apparently), but polishing and cleaning are two different things. You literally said you don't clean your brass. That link you posted says polishing. Two different things.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Also, this is how easy it is to google until you find something that fits the narrative you want to push. This is straight out of the hornady manual.

I don't agree with the entire statement, but if I wanted to be like Mark......I'd just post this and pretend I know what I'm talking about:

 

[MarkyMark007]

And you think posting an article from makers of some of the worst loading gear available telling you the soot is lubricant and that scratched brass is fine......is somehow good information?

... polishing and cleaning are two different things. You literally said you don't clean your brass. That link you posted says polishing. Two different things.

worst maker? ask people, how to get consistent primer depth with overpriced 1000$ piece of shit CPS and lee 100$ ACP ...

polishing and cleaning are... different things? in tumbler? wet tumbler? ultrasonic? NO!
with those things when you ''clean'' your brass, you are also polishing it!
use wet cloth and you wont polish your brass when you will clean it. I dont clean (and polish) my brass because there is nothing to clean...

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

I dont clean (and polish) my brass because there is nothing to clean...

If that were the case, why do you think your sizing went back to normal after you cleaned/polished your brass?

 

[MarkyMark007]

If that were the case, why do you think your sizing went back to normal after you cleaned/polished your brass?

my guess is because I removed material with that fine sandpaper from the base of the brass. only on the base is the problem.

I have ultrasonic to clean/polish the brass, so maybe I will try with that step.

 

[918v]

One time I wanted to see how many times I could reload a 9mm case so I drove to the range with my portable reloading setup and reloaded a FC 9mm case 32x before it failed.

I wasn’t cleaning the case between loadings. Apparently pressing all that carbon into the pores of the carbide die did a number on it and I stuck a case a few days later. When I got it out it was galled up.

I cleaned the die by soaking it in various cleaning solvents, spun a bronze brush in a power drill, and also polished with JB. That did the trick.

So cleaning brass helps to keep your dies clean. And prevents stuck cases.

Regarding your base dimensions, measure the base before and after sizing before we continue this conversation.