PRS Talk Production rifle choices in 6.5CM

[FOHA1]

I am new to this competition thing as I shot my first match less than a year ago, but I'm hooked. I've got a really good shooting Razor/Badger/Krieger/KRG chassis rifle, but those open guys are kicking my ass, and I want to to place better and bought a Tikka T3x CTR in 6.5CM to shoot in production, but I'm not getting the accuracy with it that I think I should, and I suspect the lighter contour barrel might have something to do with it. It's sub-moa, but barely, and the velocity is a solid 150fps slower than the heavy barrel Krieger, (both 24"). I've been buying kit along the way, and have seen the light of the game-changer bag attached to an ARCA clamp, which I can't use with the Tikka.

So, what I want is a production gun that can mount an ARCA rail, have a heavy'ish barrel, and of course be accurate and consistent. I'm looking at:

Seekins Havak Bravo, comes in a KRG Bravo chassis, and I already have a KRG ARCA rail and spigot mount, but have heard varying reports on it's accuracy. It and it uses the same AI mags as my WT3 gun $2000 Long wait time.

Patriot Valley Arms John Hancock Also comes in a Bravo chassis, and has a great Timney trigger, and a longer 26" barrel. Seems to be a real quality piece, and it uses the same AI mags as my WT3 gun. $2000 Long wait time.

Tikka T3x Tac A1 Same great action as the CTR I have, but with a heavier profile barrel and an AR style foregrip that I'm sure I could mount a rail to. Plus I have 2 mags for it. Tikkas have a rep for slow barrels, I'm not sure if it's internet lore or fact. $1600 Available.

Ruger RPR Gen III Have not used one, but damn, for the money they seem to bring a lot of value. Again, I'm sure I could mount an ARCA rail to it, and it comes with two 10 round mags. $1200 Available.

Bergara B14 Don't know anything about them other than they look all precision like. No Pic rail is a downer for me. $1400 Available.

Other choices?

 

[antithesis]

I would get something with a custom action, especially since you already have the bug. How long is too long of a wait time? I would give Alamo Precision a call. They could probably get you a barrel action for your KRG within a few weeks.

 

[021411]

How about the new MPA PMR?

MPA BA PMR Rifle - MasterPiece Arms, Inc.

Masterpiece Arms builds World Class Rifles. We start with our industry leading Chassis System, utilize the Best Actions and Triggers produced, and a 416R SS Handlapped Barrels provide some the best shooting, most accurate rifles in existence. Designed, Built and Enhanced by Long Range Shooters...

masterpiecearms.com

 

[308pirate]

I've got a really good shooting Razor/Badger/Krieger/KRG chassis rifle, but those open guys are kicking my ass, and I want to to place better and bought a Tikka T3x CTR in 6.5CM to shoot in production

SMH...…...

How about spending all that money on ammo and shooting, plus maybe some training and coaching? Nah, better just go try to be the big fish in a little pond.

Pro tip: if you ever want to compete with handguns, pick USPSA revolver or limited 10. Then you can be a big fish in a little pond again.

 

[beretta_man11]

I'd probably go with the MPA production class rifle.

 

[TheMythicalWhiteDingo]

I'm not getting the accuracy with it that I think I should

Assuming you don't reload, have you tried different ammo w/different velocities?

Factory mass-produced barrels do tend to suck imo and since you're looking to run in the "production" class, you can't drop in a decent pre-fit barrel (which will give you all the accuracy that you need). But I digress - of the options you listed I would say the John Hancock would be a solid bet. It looks like a lot of attention goes into each order/barrel which is something many mass-produced rifles don't get. Not to mention the ARC Nucleus action...

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

I am new to this competition thing as I shot my first match less than a year ago, but I'm hooked. I've got a really good shooting Razor/Badger/Krieger/KRG chassis rifle, but those open guys are kicking my ass, and I want to to place better and bought a Tikka T3x CTR in 6.5CM to shoot in production, but I'm not getting the accuracy with it that I think I should, and I suspect the lighter contour barrel might have something to do with it. It's sub-moa, but barely, and the velocity is a solid 150fps slower than the heavy barrel Krieger, (both 24"). I've been buying kit along the way, and have seen the light of the game-changer bag attached to an ARCA clamp, which I can't use with the Tikka.

So, what I want is a production gun that can mount an ARCA rail, have a heavy'ish barrel, and of course be accurate and consistent. I'm looking at:


Other choices?

While a better rifle isn't going to hold you back, I'd be willing to bet your issues are match experience and time behind the trigger - specifically, a lack of both. Instead of spending the cash on a new rifle, I'd spend it on some quality training, ammo, and more range time. If you insist on a new rifle, my suggestion would be the Havak.

I would get something with a custom action, especially since you already have the bug. How long is too long of a wait time? I would give Alamo Precision a call. They could probably get you a barrel action for your KRG within a few weeks.

He wants to shoow production class, so he can't just get a barreled action from a smith and drop it in a stock.

 

[Codiekfx400]

https://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Ho...5-Creedmoor-24-Threaded-B-p/gun-hkrb72501.htm I would buy 2 of these and keep the one that shoots better. Sell the other one and use that money to buy some ammo that the rifle likes.

 

[antithesis]

He wants to shoow production class, so he can't just get a barreled action from a smith and drop it in a stock.

Yup, did not catch that.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

https://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Ho...5-Creedmoor-24-Threaded-B-p/gun-hkrb72501.htm I would buy 2 of these and keep the one that shoots better. Sell the other one and use that money to buy some ammo that the rifle likes.

Not sure if that would be production legal. Is that an actual factory Howa rifle, or is someone buying barreled actions and slapping them in the KRG?

 

[FOHA1]

SMH...…...

How about spending all that money on ammo and shooting, plus maybe some training and coaching? Nah, better just go try to be the big fish in a little pond.

Pro tip: if you ever want to compete with handguns, pick USPSA revolver or limited 10. Then you can be a big fish in a little pond again.

SMH.....

Assume much jackass?

 

[FOHA1]

How about the new MPA PMR?

MPA BA PMR Rifle - MasterPiece Arms, Inc.

Masterpiece Arms builds World Class Rifles. We start with our industry leading Chassis System, utilize the Best Actions and Triggers produced, and a 416R SS Handlapped Barrels provide some the best shooting, most accurate rifles in existence. Designed, Built and Enhanced by Long Range Shooters...

masterpiecearms.com

Another good option, thanks.

 

[FOHA1]

Assuming you don't reload, have you tried different ammo w/different velocities?

Factory mass-produced barrels do tend to suck imo and since you're looking to run in the "production" class, you can't drop in a decent pre-fit barrel (which will give you all the accuracy that you need). But I digress - of the options you listed I would say the John Hancock would be a solid bet. It looks like a lot of attention goes into each order/barrel which is something many mass-produced rifles don't get. Not to mention the ARC Nucleus action...

I am reloading. Using Hornady 140g ELD M pills, in Hornady (for now) brass, and H4831sc powder. Just got a jug of RL16 so will work up some loads for that. And yeah, I guess I'm expecting too much out of a mass produced rifle, especially with a fairly light contour barrel.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

I am reloading. Using Hornady 140g ELD M pills, in Hornady (for now) brass, and H4831sc powder. Just got a jug of RL16 so will work up some loads for that. And yeah, I guess I'm expecting too much out of a mass produced rifle, especially with a fairly light contour barrel.

If you've got one of the sporter-type barrel contours, that's probably the only thing on the rifle itself that might be causing you an issue. Have you run any 10 round strings on paper to see if the groups open up as the barrel gets hot?

 

[FOHA1]

While a better rifle isn't going to hold you back, I'd be willing to bet your issues are match experience and time behind the trigger - specifically, a lack of both. Instead of spending the cash on a new rifle, I'd spend it on some quality training, ammo, and more range time. If you insist on a new rifle, my suggestion would be the Havak.

I'm at that point where every match I shoot (1-2 a month), I feel like I'm getting better. The people I'm shooting with are very helpful, and I try to get on different squads so I can see as many techniques as possible. I'm a gear-hound, always have been, whether it's skiing, or MTB, or 4WD stuff, and of course guns. I have a membership at Cowtown Range, and use the steel ranges and available props several times a month, along with dry fire at home.

 

[FOHA1]

If you've got one of the sporter-type barrel contours, that's probably the only thing on the rifle itself that might be causing you an issue. Have you run any 10 round strings on paper to see if the groups open up as the barrel gets hot?

When I shoot for Chrono, I use 10 round strings and it does seem to open up a bit. Also I was using an AAC can, but that made the heat soak worse, so have gone back to a brake. This is a target from load development, (PoA is at the top of each diamond)

.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

I'm at that point where every match I shoot (1-2 a month), I feel like I'm getting better. The people I'm shooting with are very helpful, and I try to get on different squads so I can see as many techniques as possible. I'm a gear-hound, always have been, whether it's skiing, or MTB, or 4WD stuff, and of course guns. I have a membership at Cowtown Range, and use the steel ranges and available props several times a month, along with dry fire at home.

Personally, I would try to squeeze as much as you can out of your current rifle (within the PRS Production rules, of course), and save up for a custom or semi-custom instead of another production rifle. If you're putting in that much time and already know you want to be competitive, I don't see you staying satisfied with production class for very long.

 

[FOHA1]

Personally, I would try to squeeze as much as you can out of your current rifle (within the PRS Production rules, of course), and save up for a custom or semi-custom instead of another production rifle. If you're putting in that much time and already know you want to be competitive, I don't see you staying satisfied with production class for very long.

I have an open rifle and sometimes I use it. I'm real confident in that rifle, it's just the production thing is another challenge for me. The target is seven shot strings, except lower right and that 14 shots.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

That target looks perfectly acceptable to me. Don't get too caught up in all the people going on about their PRS rigs shooting in the .1-.2s. My best match finishes at 2-day events have come with rifle and ammo combos that were anywhere from .375" to 1" at 100 yards. I finished in the top 10 at Altus this past weekend, and I was seeing groups around .4" at zero day (admittedly, it felt like a brake was going off next to me every time I tried to pull the damn trigger, but still....) If your rifle will do sub-MOA consistently in a long string like it shows on the bottom right, you don't have a problem.

 

[FOHA1]

Edit; The blue/yellow target is from the Badger/KRG WT3 rifle, and the red/yellow target is the Tikka.



Yeah I hear ya. It's more about positional shooting, and I do have a MPA skid on it, but without an ARCA rail, I'll have to use the bags and or Atlas bipod. I'm doing a one day class at Frontsite later this spring where I'll be able to get data from a flat range from 100-750, so that will be interesting as well.

 

[Codiekfx400]

Not sure if that would be production legal. Is that an actual factory Howa rifle, or is someone buying barreled actions and slapping them in the KRG?

Could someone chime in on if this Howa bravo would meet requirements for production class.

 

[FOHA1]

Could someone chime in on if this Howa bravo would meet requirements for production class.

It should be legal. MSRP is $1279.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

It should be legal. MSRP is $1279.

Yep, it's actually listed as a factory offering on the Howa website. MSRP is under the limit, as tyou noted, so it should be legal. PRS isn't exactly maintaining an approved list any more.

Howa KRG Bravo Stocks – Legacy Sports International

The Most Trusted Name in the Shooting Industry

www.legacysports.com

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Edit; The blue/yellow target is from the Badger/KRG WT3 rifle, and the red/yellow target is the Tikka.



Yeah I hear ya. It's more about positional shooting, and I do have a MPA skid on it, but without an ARCA rail, I'll have to use the bags and or Atlas bipod. I'm doing a one day class at Frontsite later this spring where I'll be able to get data from a flat range from 100-750, so that will be interesting as well.

We shot 16 stages at Altus this weekend. Four of them were pure prone stages (Mover, and three walk-it-out stages), with a couple more including at least some modified prone positions.

I used long bipod leg extensions on two stages (The car positional stage for the shot through the drivers window and the bunker stage, and I watched another shooter match my 11 on the car stage with only a Gamechanger), and I had two stages where I used any bag other than a Pint Size gamechanger (TYL from a cable spool, and the bunker stage). Those two things overlapped on the bunker stage where I used both the long legs and a fat bag plus a python bag to get enough support in the back. The TYL stage I just used a gamechanger up front and a fat bag in the back. I finished in the 5-way tie for 5th, and didn't drop a single point due to gear - only to mental errors and a couple of bad wind calls.

You don't need a tripod to be competitive. You don't need barricade stops to be competitive. You don't need piles of gear to be competitive, and when you come across the rare stage (like the bunker) where you NEED some other piece of gear, you can pretty much guarantee that someone's got one you can borrow.

1-2 good bags, a good bipod, and the knowledge of how to use them effectively will get you VERY far in this sport. Fixating on gear doesn't make you a better shooter.

 

[FOHA1]

I'm definitely learning techniques for applying the gear. I like the MPA skid, and the Area 419 ARCA/Gamechanger and feel like I can shoot just about any position they throw at me with those and an Atlas Bipod. I've seen people use barricade stops but usually the prop is not sturdy enough to push into it, so using the skid and shooting free recoil seems to work well.

And yeah...mental errors.

 

[Sheldon N]

I've got a really good shooting Razor/Badger/Krieger/KRG chassis rifle, but those open guys are kicking my ass, and I want to to place better and bought a Tikka T3x CTR in 6.5CM to shoot in production,

Are you talking about production class in local matches or production class in the national PRS 2 day matches? There's not much activity at all in the production class nationally so while you might "place better" you might also be one of only a couple shooters in the division. Not sure if your local matches track production class or not, I know that ours don't.

I'd steer you towards adjusting your goals rather than joining a peripheral class that doesn't have much activity in it. Pick some shooters that are your peers and focus on beating them at matches. Start tracking your percentage of hits relative to winner. Can you shoot an 80%, or 85% or 90%? Those are all realistic goals. Club matches are also a good place to compete since they are a bit less likely to have all the top shooters at once.

Mainly just focus on you and getting better, not the gear or the ranks. You're up against guys who are devoting a huge amount of TIME and PRACTICE to be as good as they are. it's not a gear thing, it's flat out work that gets results.

 

[teerex]

I'd honestly just shoot your open gun, and work on improving. Set goals on where you'd like to finish and work towards them. Production is such a small class it's hard to really even measure yourself against anyone else in it. I know they Regional matches can track classes, but not sure now many of them are.

 

[HogsLife]

I’d be looking at the production MPA rifles with the Curtis Actions.

 

[FOHA1]

I'm just shooting club matches at this point. I don't have the free time to devote to the travel for PRS events, and honestly don't feel like I'm ready for that level of competition anyway. I live in Phoenix, there are at least three matches a month within a couple hours driving time, and I try to make them all. Yeah out of 80 total there were 10 shooters in Production, 7 in TA and the rest in Open.

Yeah that MPA is a nice piece, I saw it at SHOT but forgot about it as an option. I'm just in research mode now, and may end up doing nothing as far as another gun goes.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

I'm just shooting club matches at this point. I don't have the free time to devote to the travel for PRS events, and honestly don't feel like I'm ready for that level of competition anyway. I live in Phoenix, there are at least three matches a month within a couple hours driving time, and I try to make them all. Yeah out of 80 total there were 10 shooters in Production, 7 in TA and the rest in Open.

Yeah that MPA is a nice piece, I saw it at SHOT but forgot about it as an option. I'm just in research mode now, and may end up doing nothing as far as another gun goes.

I can understand the time and cost part, but shooting 2-day matches will be a big way to increase your understanding of the sport and what you need to work on to be a better shooter. Even if you can only afford (in cost or time) 1-2 a year, they'd be a great learning experience.

 

[FOHA1]

That is the goal. I will take that step at some point, but probably next year or later this year. There are usually some sponsored shooters at these club matches, and I try to be the sponge. Everyone I've met at these events has been very helpful...except for one guy that got mad at me for not calling out the time after every shot he took. He didn't ask me to do that, and I really don't know why he lost his shit at a club match, which really just amounts to practice. He later apologized several times and we've been cool since, (I told him I used to work with Rap artists, so he'd have to try a lot harder to offend me).

 

[Harveyn]

Getting into PRS can easily lead you down the path of spending money to get better results. I would recommend you sit down and look at the fundamentals of your system, your shooting and your loading process.

Production class isn't supposed to be a gear race. There is nothing wrong with the Tikka CTR. I'm running one for this season of PRS in production over here is AUS. It's just a plain Jane blued Tikka CTR in 6.5 cm with a 20" pipe. Also outfitted with a harris bipod, lightend trigger spring and stock pack. Load is 123gr Lap Scenars @ 2950, es of 15 and 7 SD (5 shots), definately not slow. The group shown (5 shots) is typical of what this rifle shoots, even after a few strings of fire.

All the best with with your shooting.

 

[308pirate]

SMH.....

Assume much jackass?

I'm not assuming shit. In your very own words:

I've got a really good shooting Razor/Badger/Krieger/KRG chassis rifle, but those open guys are kicking my ass, and I want to to place better and bought a Tikka T3x CTR in 6.5CM to shoot in production, but I'm not getting the accuracy with it that I think I should,

EVERYBODY who's spent more than 10 min watching this sport knows that Production is one of the two small ponds in PRS (Tactical being the other). By your own admission you want to go there so you don't get your ass kicked. You're obviously not going there because your only rifle is a factory job and are just starting out.

But yeah, I'm probably wrong

 

[FOHA1]

You told me everything I need to know about you in the first post, no need to double down.

 

[HogsLife]

You told me everything I need to know about you in the first post, no need to double down.

Not tryin to be a dick dude. But you kind of opened yourself up for it. I mean switching divisions and gear so you can place better is putting yourself in the line of fire and asking to get roasted.

It’s not about “placing” or getting participation trophies. It’s about learning and becoming a more proficient marksman. Who cares if you took 1st place when you’re the only participant. Ever heard the saying “If your the best one in the room then you’re in the wrong room.” ? Chasing gear and divisions so you place better is completely the wrong approach.

Keep your current set up and continue getting your ass kicked in the division you’re in. You surround yourself with better shooters, learn from them, push yourself, dry fire, and you will get better. As long as you don’t have a pissy attitude then people will continue to help you.

 

[FOHA1]

See I don't mind having a civil discussion about it, but when I receive an ad hominem attack, I tend to push back. What I was referring to is that he was implying that I was not investing in training, which is not the case. Also, there are several guys that shoot these club matches in production each month, so we have our own little competition thing going on. It doesn't preclude me from getting better as a shooter, and it's also fun to place ahead of some of the open guys. We can usually squad up as a choice, but not always, so there is usually someone new to me each match.

 

[Dmyers800]

I would seriously consider a bergara in one of the chassis. I have the bergara which came in the XLR chassis. It has a 24" heavy barrel, came with a triggertech and is a solid action for the price. I have yet to see a bergara not shoot 1/2 MOA with factory ammo.

I shot a B14 all last year in production with the MDPRS squad with 0 failures and never felt at a disadvantage.

In response to not having an arca rail....no it doesn't. But I don't feel that this is necessary and there are plenty of ways around it.

any questions feel free to PM me and I can explain more.

I also want to sell my bergara if you are interested. I can get you a good price. 268 on the barrel and it is 6.5CM.

let me know....hope I could help.

 

[Dthomas3523]

SMH.....

Assume much jackass?

Unfortunately, he’s right. The open class guys aren’t kicking your ass because you’re shooting a CTR.

When you say something like “I want to place better,” and mention going to production class, it does read like you’re looking to game a division.

 

[chavezz556]

I would skip anything with a CHF barrel.. Bergara premier series or Defiance new production gun would be my choice

 

[Rant Durden]

You mentioned earlier in the thread you hadn't put hands on all of the rifles in your range. You should do that. Time is on your side. If you're really into this though maybe consider getting the rifle you REALLY like and want. Divisions change all the time and your production class rig might not be a good investment of your time and money. Think about it this way, have you ever walked away from trying a piece of gear and thought "wow, the quality on that thing was meh! I can't wait to find another meh!" No, getting excited to fondle a rifle or drive a rig that turns you on is usually reserved for things you lust after. Things that are bitchen. Save your money, get what you want, you'll come out ahead.

 

[Swoodhouse19]

I just picked up a Howa Bravo in 6.5 pairing with a GenII PST for a production legal build. I'll let ya know how it shoots. (factory ELD140)

 

[ReplicaSnipers]

I

I just picked up a Howa Bravo in 6.5 pairing with a GenII PST for a production legal build. I'll let ya know how it shoots. (factory ELD140)
[/QUOT

I think the Howa Bravos are fantastic rifles for the price. And they must be production because you can buy them in Australia as well as the US same set up. I've got two Howa's in different stocks but they are both tack drivers (.223 & 6.5CM).