im thinking about getting a progressive press to do some .223 reloading. looking for something on the less expensive side but not looking for something thats going to cause me nothing but problems. any recommendations? is there a fourm site that has a classified section for reloading gear?
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progressive press
- Thread starter ackbizzle
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Re: progressive press
I have never used anything but Dillon since a very bad experience with a cheap progressive 20 years ago. The 550 is a b it on the the pricey side, but money well spent and the warranty and customer service are over the top.
I have never used anything but Dillon since a very bad experience with a cheap progressive 20 years ago. The 550 is a b it on the the pricey side, but money well spent and the warranty and customer service are over the top.
Re: progressive press
I bought a Hornady LNL AP a little over a year ago, my very first reloading machine.
Something over 5,000 centerfire rounds to date, and not a single hiccup.
I don't see how you can improve on that.
I bought a Hornady LNL AP a little over a year ago, my very first reloading machine.
Something over 5,000 centerfire rounds to date, and not a single hiccup.
I don't see how you can improve on that.
Re: progressive press
I have the xl650 and my only complaint is you have to keep it clean. Granted not that clean.
I have the xl650 and my only complaint is you have to keep it clean. Granted not that clean.
Re: progressive press
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rpk762</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have the xl650 and my only complaint is you have to keep it clean. Granted not that clean. </div></div>
I've had my 650 for about a year now. My only complaint is I don't know what to do with myself with all the extra time I no longer need for reloading.
I've also heard the LnL is a good value for the money.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rpk762</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have the xl650 and my only complaint is you have to keep it clean. Granted not that clean. </div></div>
I've had my 650 for about a year now. My only complaint is I don't know what to do with myself with all the extra time I no longer need for reloading.
I've also heard the LnL is a good value for the money.
Re: progressive press
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TBannister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Progressives are fine for pistol or rifle plinking ammo, but if match consistency is what you need, go single stage.
XL650 is the only progressiveto go with. Cry once. </div></div>
Completely false.
I missed High Master in FTR by .02% this year loading 308 on my 650. Mind you, I scored 598-16X in one match on a calm day, but my next match (winds gusting 20mph) scored on the low side of Master.
A LnL or Dillon is completely appropriate dor high quality match ammo...perhaps not for Benchrest, but thats not what we're talking about here.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TBannister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Progressives are fine for pistol or rifle plinking ammo, but if match consistency is what you need, go single stage.
XL650 is the only progressiveto go with. Cry once. </div></div>
Completely false.
I missed High Master in FTR by .02% this year loading 308 on my 650. Mind you, I scored 598-16X in one match on a calm day, but my next match (winds gusting 20mph) scored on the low side of Master.
A LnL or Dillon is completely appropriate dor high quality match ammo...perhaps not for Benchrest, but thats not what we're talking about here.
Re: progressive press
If you single stage loaded then youd have won it?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TBannister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Progressives are fine for pistol or rifle plinking ammo, but if match consistency is what you need, go single stage.
XL650 is the only progressiveto go with. Cry once. </div></div>
Completely false.
I missed High Master in FTR by .02% this year loading 308 on my 650. Mind you, I scored 598-16X in one match on a calm day, but my next match (winds gusting 20mph) scored on the low side of Master.
A LnL or Dillon is completely appropriate dor high quality match ammo...perhaps not for Benchrest, but thats not what we're talking about here. </div></div>
If you single stage loaded then youd have won it?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TBannister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Progressives are fine for pistol or rifle plinking ammo, but if match consistency is what you need, go single stage.
XL650 is the only progressiveto go with. Cry once. </div></div>
Completely false.
I missed High Master in FTR by .02% this year loading 308 on my 650. Mind you, I scored 598-16X in one match on a calm day, but my next match (winds gusting 20mph) scored on the low side of Master.
A LnL or Dillon is completely appropriate dor high quality match ammo...perhaps not for Benchrest, but thats not what we're talking about here. </div></div>
Re: progressive press
IMO, the biggest 2 variables to loading "match" grade ammo from a progressive would be a good quality seater die and which powder you are/were using. Some powders, like short cut and or ball type, flow and throw VERY consistent charges while others such as Retumbo and the like don't flow and throw nearly as consistent. Using a bullet that isn't super sensative to seating depth probably would help too.
IMO, the biggest 2 variables to loading "match" grade ammo from a progressive would be a good quality seater die and which powder you are/were using. Some powders, like short cut and or ball type, flow and throw VERY consistent charges while others such as Retumbo and the like don't flow and throw nearly as consistent. Using a bullet that isn't super sensative to seating depth probably would help too.
Re: progressive press
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a dillon 550 and 650. I think the Hornady LnL AP is the one to get. Excellent machine, EXCELLENT value. </div></div>
Care to illuminate your opinion?
Just curious.
Thanks
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a dillon 550 and 650. I think the Hornady LnL AP is the one to get. Excellent machine, EXCELLENT value. </div></div>
Care to illuminate your opinion?
Just curious.
Thanks
Re: progressive press
I have a 550 and my dad has the LnL AP. Having used both if I were to buy all over again it would be the LnL AP. The 550 is a great piece but the LnL is like a 650 but at the 550 price. Unless you just really want a Dillon the LnL is, IMO, by far the better value and if money is of no concern then you will most likely be looking at a 1050.
I have a 550 and my dad has the LnL AP. Having used both if I were to buy all over again it would be the LnL AP. The 550 is a great piece but the LnL is like a 650 but at the 550 price. Unless you just really want a Dillon the LnL is, IMO, by far the better value and if money is of no concern then you will most likely be looking at a 1050.
Re: progressive press
I have a Hornady LNL AP and it has been great. Had an issue with it and Hornady fixed it promptly and for free. For me, it came down to the caliber conversion costs rather than the cost of the individual presses. In that regard, the Hornady is a bit cheaper than the 650.
I have a Hornady LNL AP and it has been great. Had an issue with it and Hornady fixed it promptly and for free. For me, it came down to the caliber conversion costs rather than the cost of the individual presses. In that regard, the Hornady is a bit cheaper than the 650.
Re: progressive press
I use a 550B and semi-progressively load rifle ammo.
My brother has a 650 and it's not quite as easy to to do the semi-progressive route but either would work.
I haven't tried Hornady AP but the Dillon line is good to go.
I use a 550B and semi-progressively load rifle ammo.
My brother has a 650 and it's not quite as easy to to do the semi-progressive route but either would work.
I haven't tried Hornady AP but the Dillon line is good to go.
Re: progressive press
There are two issues that make the LnL my progressive press of choice. First, the primer magazine on the blue 6 hundred model is prone to detonation. There have been several reports of this on the web and it is a known issue. The Hornady magazine is far back from the seating area and is, therefore, not subject to this problem.
Second, the Hornady machine advances the shell plate 1/2 station on the downstroke, and 1/2 station on the upstroke. The blue machine advances one, complete station on the downstroke. With rifle length cartridges -- which are top heavy and tend to tip in a progressive -- the 1/2 station advance permits a smoother and more controllable movement of the rounds. In other words, they tend to tip less on the Hornady than the blue machine.
I've owned Dillon presses in the past and loaded a lot of ammo on them. I've been using the LnL for three years now, and loaded a lot of ammo on it. The Dillon machines are faster. The Hornady machine is more flexible, safer, and smoother.
There are two issues that make the LnL my progressive press of choice. First, the primer magazine on the blue 6 hundred model is prone to detonation. There have been several reports of this on the web and it is a known issue. The Hornady magazine is far back from the seating area and is, therefore, not subject to this problem.
Second, the Hornady machine advances the shell plate 1/2 station on the downstroke, and 1/2 station on the upstroke. The blue machine advances one, complete station on the downstroke. With rifle length cartridges -- which are top heavy and tend to tip in a progressive -- the 1/2 station advance permits a smoother and more controllable movement of the rounds. In other words, they tend to tip less on the Hornady than the blue machine.
I've owned Dillon presses in the past and loaded a lot of ammo on them. I've been using the LnL for three years now, and loaded a lot of ammo on it. The Dillon machines are faster. The Hornady machine is more flexible, safer, and smoother.
Re: progressive press
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TBannister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Progressives are fine for pistol or rifle plinking ammo, but if match consistency is what you need, go single stage.
XL650 is the only progressive to go with. Cry once. </div></div>
Granted, I know I give up some load consistency with a powder drop. That's easily solved (if I choose to do so) by using it as a single stage press, loading light and trickling up...but since I load 300-600 rounds/month it's a trade-off with having a life outside the loading bench and perfectly consistent loads. And, what I produce is <span style="font-weight: bold">far</span> better than "plinking ammo"...
The OP didn't say he was loading for competition.
But other than load variations inherent from using a powder drop, where are you losing consistency with a progressive press over a single stage?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TBannister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Progressives are fine for pistol or rifle plinking ammo, but if match consistency is what you need, go single stage.
XL650 is the only progressive to go with. Cry once. </div></div>
Granted, I know I give up some load consistency with a powder drop. That's easily solved (if I choose to do so) by using it as a single stage press, loading light and trickling up...but since I load 300-600 rounds/month it's a trade-off with having a life outside the loading bench and perfectly consistent loads. And, what I produce is <span style="font-weight: bold">far</span> better than "plinking ammo"...
The OP didn't say he was loading for competition.
But other than load variations inherent from using a powder drop, where are you losing consistency with a progressive press over a single stage?
Re: progressive press
so far everyone has said go with the LNL or a dilion, is this everyones way of saying stay far far away from a Lee? there much cheaper and even come with dies. are they that bad?
so far everyone has said go with the LNL or a dilion, is this everyones way of saying stay far far away from a Lee? there much cheaper and even come with dies. are they that bad?
Re: progressive press
lee makes some great products. there progressive presses are not one of them
lee makes some great products. there progressive presses are not one of them
Re: progressive press
I did find, after much experimentation, that when I loaded on my XL650 and used the same slot on the shell carrier, my consistency was improved. Still nowhere near the reults of my Forster co-ax.
I did find, after much experimentation, that when I loaded on my XL650 and used the same slot on the shell carrier, my consistency was improved. Still nowhere near the reults of my Forster co-ax.
Re: progressive press
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aloreman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">lee makes some great products. there progressive presses are not one of them </div></div>
Amen
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aloreman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">lee makes some great products. there progressive presses are not one of them </div></div>
Amen
Re: progressive press
Runnout variances caused by the shell carrier, I think. Ive measured at the ogive on my co-ax and its much greater in consistency vs my 650.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wannashootit</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TBannister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Progressives are fine for pistol or rifle plinking ammo, but if match consistency is what you need, go single stage.
XL650 is the only progressive to go with. Cry once. </div></div>
Granted, I know I give up some load consistency with a powder drop. That's easily solved (if I choose to do so) by using it as a single stage press, loading light and trickling up...but since I load 300-600 rounds/month it's a trade-off with having a life outside the loading bench and perfectly consistent loads. And, what I produce is <span style="font-weight: bold">far</span> better than "plinking ammo"...
The OP didn't say he was loading for competition.
But other than load variations inherent from using a powder drop, where are you losing consistency with a progressive press over a single stage? </div></div>
Runnout variances caused by the shell carrier, I think. Ive measured at the ogive on my co-ax and its much greater in consistency vs my 650.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wannashootit</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TBannister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Progressives are fine for pistol or rifle plinking ammo, but if match consistency is what you need, go single stage.
XL650 is the only progressive to go with. Cry once. </div></div>
Granted, I know I give up some load consistency with a powder drop. That's easily solved (if I choose to do so) by using it as a single stage press, loading light and trickling up...but since I load 300-600 rounds/month it's a trade-off with having a life outside the loading bench and perfectly consistent loads. And, what I produce is <span style="font-weight: bold">far</span> better than "plinking ammo"...
The OP didn't say he was loading for competition.
But other than load variations inherent from using a powder drop, where are you losing consistency with a progressive press over a single stage? </div></div>
Re: progressive press
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rugrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are two issues that make the LnL my progressive press of choice. First, the primer magazine on the blue 6 hundred model is prone to detonation. There have been several reports of this on the web and it is a known issue. The Hornady magazine is far back from the seating area and is, therefore, not subject to this problem.
Second, the Hornady machine advances the shell plate 1/2 station on the downstroke, and 1/2 station on the upstroke. The blue machine advances one, complete station on the downstroke. With rifle length cartridges -- which are top heavy and tend to tip in a progressive -- the 1/2 station advance permits a smoother and more controllable movement of the rounds. In other words, they tend to tip less on the Hornady than the blue machine.
I've owned Dillon presses in the past and loaded a lot of ammo on them. I've been using the LnL for three years now, and loaded a lot of ammo on it. The Dillon machines are faster. The Hornady machine is more flexible, safer, and smoother. </div></div>
+1 on the mass primer detonation possibilities on the Dillon 650. Ask me how I know (oops I cannot hear you)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rugrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are two issues that make the LnL my progressive press of choice. First, the primer magazine on the blue 6 hundred model is prone to detonation. There have been several reports of this on the web and it is a known issue. The Hornady magazine is far back from the seating area and is, therefore, not subject to this problem.
Second, the Hornady machine advances the shell plate 1/2 station on the downstroke, and 1/2 station on the upstroke. The blue machine advances one, complete station on the downstroke. With rifle length cartridges -- which are top heavy and tend to tip in a progressive -- the 1/2 station advance permits a smoother and more controllable movement of the rounds. In other words, they tend to tip less on the Hornady than the blue machine.
I've owned Dillon presses in the past and loaded a lot of ammo on them. I've been using the LnL for three years now, and loaded a lot of ammo on it. The Dillon machines are faster. The Hornady machine is more flexible, safer, and smoother. </div></div>
+1 on the mass primer detonation possibilities on the Dillon 650. Ask me how I know (oops I cannot hear you)
Re: progressive press
To clarify a bit, the Hornady LNL AP has less potential for a mass detonation because of the slider handling individual primers, instead of a disc full being next to each other in a chain so to speak. My incident drove home some important rules for reloading, especially with a progresive.
1 Always wear eye AND hearing protection (used to do eye only)
2 Never reload when in a hurry or frustrated
3 The Dillon 650 needs to be on the most solid and wiggle free
surface you can possibly build
To clarify a bit, the Hornady LNL AP has less potential for a mass detonation because of the slider handling individual primers, instead of a disc full being next to each other in a chain so to speak. My incident drove home some important rules for reloading, especially with a progresive.
1 Always wear eye AND hearing protection (used to do eye only)
2 Never reload when in a hurry or frustrated
3 The Dillon 650 needs to be on the most solid and wiggle free
surface you can possibly build
Re: progressive press
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: X-fan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a dillon 550 and 650. I think the Hornady LnL AP is the one to get. Excellent machine, EXCELLENT value. </div></div>
Care to illuminate your opinion?
Just curious.
Thanks </div></div>
First off, a progressive without auto-index is like getting to have sex with a beautiful women but not being allowed to get off. Brian Enos' forums convinced me to get a 550 for my first machine. Mistake! It's a good machine that works well, but seriously - it should be autoindex.
The 650 is a much more heavy duty machine and it works well. It runs much smoothly and is more refined than a 550. The autoindex and 5 station toolhead are a big advantage over the 550.
Both machines have an "ok" powder measure. Dillons toolheads make sense until you use the AP. The AP bushings are $5 each, and allow you to change either an entire setup, or just one PART of a setup in seconds. The Dillon only allows you to change a complete setup quickly. Removing the Dillon powder measure requires removing screws, and disconnecting the powder safety linkage. The AP is much more elegant and simply lifts off, not to mention, I much prefer the "ball valve" type measure the AP uses over the sliding bar style Dillon uses. The 550's spent primer collection cup sucks. It fails to catch every 4th or 5th primer. The 650's system never drops them, but the AP's primer "exhaust tube" is a nice idea and works well. You just route the clear rubber hose down and into the trash bin. Works like a champ. The AP's shellplate spring thing, that captivates the caes into the shellplate is a clever idea, though it is a wear part and you need to keep spares on hand. It makes removing/replacing cases in the shellplate a snap, without fumbling with little tiny brass pins. It's much easier to lose the pins than the spring, because the the spring never gets removed. But, again, you will wear out and break the spring after a while, so spares are required. The 650 really "clunks" when it indexes. If you have high charge density, there is danger of it shaking powder out of your case thats charged and ready for a bullet. I run 45.5gr Varget in a 308 case, so I'm in the habit of puting my finger over the casemouth before indexing. I read about a modification you can do to improve this, but it's really a non-issue for the AP, because it indexes so much more smoothly.
In all, the AP is a fine competitor to the 650. In fact, I can think of no way the AP doesn't "hang" with the 650, except warranty. Hornady is a good company and stands by their products, but Dillon is WAY OVER THE TOP. But, you pay for that warranty/service up front.
As mentioned previously, the Hornady is every bit the machine as the 650, but at the price of a 550.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: X-fan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a dillon 550 and 650. I think the Hornady LnL AP is the one to get. Excellent machine, EXCELLENT value. </div></div>
Care to illuminate your opinion?
Just curious.
Thanks </div></div>
First off, a progressive without auto-index is like getting to have sex with a beautiful women but not being allowed to get off. Brian Enos' forums convinced me to get a 550 for my first machine. Mistake! It's a good machine that works well, but seriously - it should be autoindex.
The 650 is a much more heavy duty machine and it works well. It runs much smoothly and is more refined than a 550. The autoindex and 5 station toolhead are a big advantage over the 550.
Both machines have an "ok" powder measure. Dillons toolheads make sense until you use the AP. The AP bushings are $5 each, and allow you to change either an entire setup, or just one PART of a setup in seconds. The Dillon only allows you to change a complete setup quickly. Removing the Dillon powder measure requires removing screws, and disconnecting the powder safety linkage. The AP is much more elegant and simply lifts off, not to mention, I much prefer the "ball valve" type measure the AP uses over the sliding bar style Dillon uses. The 550's spent primer collection cup sucks. It fails to catch every 4th or 5th primer. The 650's system never drops them, but the AP's primer "exhaust tube" is a nice idea and works well. You just route the clear rubber hose down and into the trash bin. Works like a champ. The AP's shellplate spring thing, that captivates the caes into the shellplate is a clever idea, though it is a wear part and you need to keep spares on hand. It makes removing/replacing cases in the shellplate a snap, without fumbling with little tiny brass pins. It's much easier to lose the pins than the spring, because the the spring never gets removed. But, again, you will wear out and break the spring after a while, so spares are required. The 650 really "clunks" when it indexes. If you have high charge density, there is danger of it shaking powder out of your case thats charged and ready for a bullet. I run 45.5gr Varget in a 308 case, so I'm in the habit of puting my finger over the casemouth before indexing. I read about a modification you can do to improve this, but it's really a non-issue for the AP, because it indexes so much more smoothly.
In all, the AP is a fine competitor to the 650. In fact, I can think of no way the AP doesn't "hang" with the 650, except warranty. Hornady is a good company and stands by their products, but Dillon is WAY OVER THE TOP. But, you pay for that warranty/service up front.
As mentioned previously, the Hornady is every bit the machine as the 650, but at the price of a 550.
Re: progressive press
Damn...
The LNL was my first (and only press)...I had no idea others could be so complicated!!
Pulling brass pins to remove a casing from the shellplate? Really?
The round spring device on the LNL makes it a breeze to pop out a primed case, weigh it, pop it back in...and then back out for weighing after dropping the charge.
Maybe I'm still a bit paranoid because I'm still a bit new at it, but I still "pull" one every half-dozen to ten cases to confirm the charges like that.
And you're spot on with the cheap metering valve on the LNL. I have one for every cartridge, pre-set to the "pet" load. Before I realized how cheap and easy this was, I'd spend a huge amount of time-and frustration from overfilling cases- going from something like .308 to .223 and trying to make huge adjustments to the meter. Now I just buy a new meter whenever we add another cartridge to the list.
Damn...
The LNL was my first (and only press)...I had no idea others could be so complicated!!
Pulling brass pins to remove a casing from the shellplate? Really?
The round spring device on the LNL makes it a breeze to pop out a primed case, weigh it, pop it back in...and then back out for weighing after dropping the charge.
Maybe I'm still a bit paranoid because I'm still a bit new at it, but I still "pull" one every half-dozen to ten cases to confirm the charges like that.
And you're spot on with the cheap metering valve on the LNL. I have one for every cartridge, pre-set to the "pet" load. Before I realized how cheap and easy this was, I'd spend a huge amount of time-and frustration from overfilling cases- going from something like .308 to .223 and trying to make huge adjustments to the meter. Now I just buy a new meter whenever we add another cartridge to the list.
Re: progressive press
loading 45s this am on my lee turret and getting bored i remembered this thread and went online and ordered a lnl. staring at the 3000 9mm i have to load next it just made sence
loading 45s this am on my lee turret and getting bored i remembered this thread and went online and ordered a lnl. staring at the 3000 9mm i have to load next it just made sence
