PRS Talk PRS Mag Flag- ACIS Version - Yow-Tech

[Yowzilla]

We started with a plug for the Rimfire V-22 from Vudoo Gun Works and then designed the solution below......What do you think?

April 19th Update:
We are now an LLC!!! Thanks to all who believe in our products and placing orders and Thanks to Travis at NRL and NRL22 for allowing us to support them through the monthly COF Live events, as well as the HIDE. To celebrate our growing we are offering a 15% off code EGG19. Thanks!!!! Charlie

January 21st Update:
The 700 Rem plug is nice but only compatible with the original 700 Remington action. With all the request for specific action and chassis, I have taken the design a different direction. We NOW are compatible with all Short Action 700 style actions including Vudoo rimfire and chassis that accept an ACIS mag!!! This is huge leap forward in compatibility for Yow-Tech. The "Mag Flag" is a bit unconventional but it checks all the boxes below:

• Prevents loaded mag to be loaded
• Indicates that bolt is blocked with bright color. Safety Orange, Red, and Yellow options.
• Mechanicaly prevents bolt from moving forward.
• Has holes that indicate there are not rounds in this plastic thing
• Safety indicator flag included of your choice in style and color (see site for options)
• California compliant (0 round mag??)) ha ha

Pre-Orders to open this week on Yow-Tech.com. Thanks for looking...Yow

January 6th Update:
We have released our new reinvented chamber flag for Remington 700 actions. These work with two lug Remington actions and testing in others. This new type of chamber flag does not fall out and securely snaps just forward of the bolt. This new flag eliminates the need to enter plastic into the bore and prevents the magazine for fully seating for additional safety.

Our version of the chamber flag has reinvented safety at matches.

We were getting tired of loosing chamber flags when moving my rifle from the shooting line to storage stand. I am also not a fan of jamming plastic in a hot hole....I said plastic!!

We designed an innovative snap in - snap out chamber block that will also prevent the bolt from moving forward. In combination with our one piece and sprung design we include several flag choices to insure the RO (range officer) will be off your back.

Currently the Vudoo Plug only tested in Vudoo Gun Works V-22 bolt actions and the 700Rem only tested in Remington 700 two lug actions. Will be testing in other bolt actions ASAP.
*US Patent Pending



www.Yow-Tech.com

 

[Dthomas3523]

After the next match, I’ll let you borrow my AI to get an AI version designed. Pretty sure there’s a guy or two here on the hide who’d like to have an AI version.

 

[Clint E.]

^^^^^^ I second this! AI version please!

 

[The Durk]

I agree. I would like an AI version.

 

[Yowzilla]

So I am testing a few more chassis but this new design will fit into any chassis compatible with an AICS mag. I have confirmed it in a Whiskey 3 Gen6.

Keeps the bolt back
Snaps in until mag release is pressed to release
Has flag of you choice attached
Impossible to have mag in at same time (not sure this has to be said)
Available in Safety Orange, Safety Red, and Safety Yellow.

Not the red in the pics below is translucent and this is not the Safety Red color offered.

Pre-Order soon on Yow-Tech.com!!!!

 

[The Durk]

This would be even more ideal if it could fit an AI AT/AX as well. Might need two different versions. I have an AT and apparently the magazines are slightly different.

 

[Dthomas3523]

This would be even more ideal if it could fit an AI AT/AX as well. Might need two different versions. I have an AT and apparently the magazines are slightly different.

My AT fits aw and regular aics. It’s an 18 model.

I’m local to Charlie. We will try it in my AT this week.

 

[JimLee]

Where can I find this "hot hole" you speak of? I'm dying to jam some plastic into it.

 

[The Durk]

My AT fits aw and regular aics. It’s an 18 model.

I’m local to Charlie. We will try it in my AT this week.

....son of a gun. It’s tight but it fits. Doesn’t feed but it fits. ?

 

[Yowzilla]

Confirmed fitment into MPA and Accuracy International ATAICS Short action chassis today.
The Revision 6 changes increased the height that matches a 5rd AICS magazine and I increased the size of the bolt stop to plug ejection port as much as possible to minimize dirt and dust contamination of action and chamber.

So full list of confirmed Short Action chassis:
KRG Whiskey Gen6
MPA BA
AI ATAICS 0.308

 

[MountainHunter]

This is a great idea! I should have my impact/foundation together by Saturday and I’ll order one for it.

 

[Yowzilla]

So boys and girls....The Yow-Tech Mag Flag is now available on www.Yow-Tech.com.....I am still trying to build stock and am working to ship on same day as orders come in...I have lost of flags in house and more heading my way. The manufacturing currently takes 5hr each but am working on building capacity.

Also for the folks on SnipersHide I have a discount code that will take 10% off your orders. Without all the feedback the design would not meet some of your expectation and I appreciate the comments. So again to say thanks for the feedback use PRS19 for 10% off.

Thanks !!!!
Charlie
https://www.yow-tech.com

 

[Yowzilla]

Pictures of actual colors of Mag Flag.....Thanks for all the orders!!!

 

[Yowzilla]

Straight Nerd-sauce

We are simply trying to design items that reinvent competitive shooting tasks to maximize hits. With that said, using ‘nerd” tools is how all our equipment is designed.

 

[308pirate]

I thought whatever you stuck in the rifle had to prove the chamber (not the mag) was empty. How does this thing do that?

 

[Yowzilla]

The top of the Mag Flag extends up into Bolt and one can not insert the Mag Flag without the bolt back. When the bolt goes back it extracts the round spent or not. When the Mag Flag is locked into place with magazine catch the bolt can not be moved forward.

 

[NightStash]

I’ve seen another version of this also and I think it’s a very creative idea. Unfortunately it does not meet the requirements for PRS Empty Chamber Indicator.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I’ve seen another version of this also and I think it’s a very creative idea. Unfortunately it does not meet the requirements for PRS Empty Chamber Indicator.

I’m fairly sure if he communicates with NRL and PRS, they would be willing to look into it and/or allow it.

If not, this is a simple fix for Charlie.

Charlie, there should be a way to make an attachment that has a flexible piece of plastic (think weed eater string) that can be in the chamber.

As you insert into the magwell you guide the plastic “string” into the chamber.

Now you have a small piece of flexible plastic just inside the chamber enough to pass the PRS muster, and you are blocking the bolt/firing pin

 

[Dthomas3523]

And if nothing else, even if some people say “well if I have to still put something in the chamber, why do I need this,” just think back how many times you forgot to take out your chamber flag and tried to run your bolt on a stage.

This would negate that every happening again, as you have to remove it to insert a magazine.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

i want to know more about the parallax ring on the kahles. How much does it help and does it ever get in the way?

 

[308pirate]

just think back how many times you forgot to take out your chamber flag and tried to run your bolt on a stage..

Not the ECI's fault, is it?

 

[Dthomas3523]

Not the ECI's fault, is it?

Not the car’s fault when you back into something, but I bet you don’t mind a backup alarm the one time you need it if it wasn’t that much more expensive ?

 

[308pirate]

It's a poor craftsman that blames his tools

 

[Dthomas3523]

It's a poor craftsman that blames his tools

And a hard headed fool that doesn’t use simple things to make life easier at times.

 

[Yowzilla]

i want to know more about the parallax ring on the kahles. How much does it help and does it ever get in the way?

I made a few but never put them on the store. For me I like the single large arm to move vs some that equally distribute small bumps around the knob, but several like the symmetric versions. With a limited parallax range of the low to mid, the arm works...but if you are going from full tilt on both extremes the symmetric one is better. If you want I can put this on the store or send you one.

The other thing that prevented me from putting them on the store is that you kind of got to work at getting it on. I intentionally designed it tight so it will not come off, but in doing so it takes some time to knock off some edges to start it on initially.... After you get is started it slides down and will not get knocked off later.

 

[Yowzilla]

I thought whatever you stuck in the rifle had to prove the chamber (not the mag) was empty. How does this thing do that?

PRS Safety SOP has two rules listed that the Mag Flag addresses....First 1.2.2 - Weapon to be clear with Magazine out. Second is 1.2.3 Chamber flags or OTHER Empty Chamber Indicators will be utilized at all times.

PRS SOP does say that the ECI must be in the chamber and this rule was authored before the Mag Flag product was available to increase safety.

The clear and obvious objective of these procedures are to insure the maximum number of "dumb moves" that must occur to fire a rifle. The procedures are written to prevent accidentally firing a rifle in transport between firing line and back to rack or safety area. This was and still is the justification for the Mag flag for a simple fact.....

An ECI does not have a mechanical way to be locked or snapped in the chamber.

Where the Mag Flag requires an additinal extra step to prepare the rifle to fire and mechanically locks into the rifle. On top of the fact that it requires a deliberate action to remove, It also mechanically keeps the bolt back where some ECI fail to 100% guarantee the bolt will not pick up a round and place it in chamber. Lastly one can not even load a mag with a Mag Flag in place. This insures that correct order of steps are followed, are deliberate, are mechanical and can not be short cut.

Now let me speak to the common sense factor. The chamber and bolt interface are where low machine tolerances are the name of the game. Why would anyone feel comfortable jamming a repurposed weed eater cord into the precision heart of their equipment ,that can and often do melt, is above my pay grade.

Attending matches and constantly seeing folks picking up flags on the ground that fall out as the rifle is in transport is the main reason I designed this product. Plain and simple.....

I personally feel safer with this product over the piss poor level of safety from a weedeater cord.....

Safety rules and non-negotiable, but hopefully this product increases safety and so far most are very excited for a real mechanical snap-in way to insure we all continue to go out and have fun time and time again.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I’ve been trying for the past two days to bypass the bolt stop. It simply will not budge.

The absolute only way to unblock the bolt (and by virtue, the firing pin) is to hit the mag release and drop the device.

The only thing I can see that could be improved as others have said, is some way to keep dirt and dust from entering the chamber.

 

[Yowzilla]

Update....The NRL Match Director quote "This is a better idea for a ECI!!! Well Done...It would work very well for NRL"

This is an awesome quote from Tyler.......

 

[MountainHunter]

Update....The NRL Match Director quote "This is a better idea for a ECI!!! Well Done...It would work very well for NRL"

This is an awesome quote from Tyler.......

Have you sent this to the PRS? It'd be cool to know that it is an approved alternative.

Since it seems that they'll be enforcing them this year I'd much rather run your mag style one but would like to know that they're approved.

 

[Yowzilla]

Have you sent this to the PRS? It'd be cool to know that it is an approved alternative.

Since it seems that they'll be enforcing them this year I'd much rather run your mag style one but would like to know that they're approved.

I have been contacting a few but would like to talk with Shannon Kay......I believe that is the correct contact....

 

[texag0842]

I'll be testing one at the Central TX PRS match this weekend on the AI.

 

[Yowzilla]

I'll be testing one at the Central TX PRS match this weekend on the AI.

The USPS has possession of your MagFlag versions. I included a prototype version with the letters "AW" on the clip geometry and the clip height has been moved to match AW format mags. The version with "8" on the clip geometry is the released product for AICS format magazines. Please let me know how the "AW" works in your AIAT........

 

[texag0842]

@Yowzilla

I'll give you a ring once it arrives and I have tested it out.

 

[502Chevelle]

A very similar items has been developed by another company, sort of a Ford/Chevy thing, and it was very recently shot down by the PRS, as it does not show that the chamber is empty.

 

[Dthomas3523]

A very similar items has been developed by another company, sort of a Ford/Chevy thing, and it was very recently shot down by the PRS, as it does not show that the chamber is empty.

I think Charlie is looking into a add on piece that will remedy this and help with the dirt/dust in chamber.

 

[Yowzilla]

502Chevelle
I have PMed you over last few days, can you please back up your post? I’m just looking for a link to validate any possible patent Infringment.
Thanks

 

[502Chevelle]

I just replied to your pm. Just saw that I had one. Little testy there aren’t you.

 

[502Chevelle]

Shannon Kay has shot down a very similar item from a different manufacturer. I was on the FB feed and watching the issue, so this isn’t a “I think they will say this or that”, I saw his answer with my own eyes. The problem is, you can insert this mag block into a rifle even if there is a round in the chamber. Extractors don’t hook onto a round until the bolt handle is completely closed. So what I’m saying is, you are in the middle of a stage and running your bolt, and the timer goes off as you are running your bolt forward to chamber a round, but you stop short, because the RO shouts stop. You drop your mag, and pull your bolt back, nothing comes out, and the RO calls clear. I told the RO, hey watch this as I closed my bolt and then pulled it back and kicked out a live round AFTER he had called clear. That is why the PRS wants to make sure the chamber is empty and while I like this style of flag, I’m simply saying it currently won’t fly for PRS. This of course could change, I’m not the man in charge. We have been using blocks like this in our ARs for years, and uspsa ROs don’t like them either for the same reason. I really didn’t want to come on here seemingly to bash your product, that’s why I didn’t go into details above, but if you want to pm me and act like a douche, I’m going to reply. So, your product works good, but is not all that original, and really doesn’t show an empty chamber. Have a nice day.

 

[Yowzilla]

The fact is I fully understand the PRS and NRL positions.

The PRS did not approve the competitive product and has not disapproved mine. Second, the copy cat product that is violating my Patent Pending application does not have several features my product does have. When I submit my product to PRS it will meet the requirements that have written.

The NRL DID say that the Yow-Tech MagFlag is a product that will work for them.

 

[Yowzilla]

Based on structural FEA and field testing from folks on the forum, we have strengthened the bolt stop, as well as, changed the manufacturing parameters. See picture below for the new design with old version in back ground. This change has been implemented across all three MagFlag versions (Vudoo, AICS, and AW).

 

[msstate56]

I will be willing to buy one- as soon an the PRS gives official approval for match use. Please let us know once they have approved your product.

 

[MountainHunter]

I will be willing to buy one- as soon an the PRS gives official approval for match use. Please let us know once they have approved your product.

Same here, I’m focusing primarily on the PRS this year and would like to know we’re good to go with this before ordering.

 

[Yowzilla]

I was taught a while ago to validate an empty chamber before handling or moving a gun. Shit as a habbit I do this in gun stores with pistols as well.
This first design was intended to be used after one validated an empty chamber. This was my first design direction because in my opinion jamming plastic in a hot hole does not make tollerancing or accuracy improve.

With all this said, I am currently addressing the PRS position, while improving the NRL approved position, by adding an additional safety feature, as well as, two major function improvements. I know I am speaking cryptic, but do not want to describe what I am doing until the design is completed and fully tested. Let's just say this will be CLEAN and COOL design while maintaining the current design that requires the mag release to be pressed before the rifle can be made ready to fire.

Sorry it is taking me a bit longer than planed....The day job is getting in the way.....

 

[Yowzilla]

So along with NRL, I just got word that a PRL has approved the Yow-Tech MagFlag!!! Good stuff.

 

[rymart]

So along with NRL, I just got word that a PRL has approved the Yow-Tech MagFlag!!! Good stuff.

What about the PRS, or the ARS while we’re at it? ???

In all seriousness, that’s great news.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Shannon Kay has shot down a very similar item from a different manufacturer. I was on the FB feed and watching the issue, so this isn’t a “I think they will say this or that”, I saw his answer with my own eyes. The problem is, you can insert this mag block into a rifle even if there is a round in the chamber. Extractors don’t hook onto a round until the bolt handle is completely closed. So what I’m saying is, you are in the middle of a stage and running your bolt, and the timer goes off as you are running your bolt forward to chamber a round, but you stop short, because the RO shouts stop. You drop your mag, and pull your bolt back, nothing comes out, and the RO calls clear. I told the RO, hey watch this as I closed my bolt and then pulled it back and kicked out a live round AFTER he had called clear. That is why the PRS wants to make sure the chamber is empty and while I like this style of flag, I’m simply saying it currently won’t fly for PRS. This of course could change, I’m not the man in charge. We have been using blocks like this in our ARs for years, and uspsa ROs don’t like them either for the same reason. I really didn’t want to come on here seemingly to bash your product, that’s why I didn’t go into details above, but if you want to pm me and act like a douche, I’m going to reply. So, your product works good, but is not all that original, and really doesn’t show an empty chamber. Have a nice day.

This is why the typical make and show clear with a pistol is to rack the slide three times, and do a visual and physical inspection.

Same with AR rifles. Rack slide three times and lock on third. Visual inspection of chamber and manual inspection of mag well.

Not sure why this practice hasn’t made it to bolt rifles.

 

[bigdaddydmd]

If I was to order one today would I receive the older version or the version with the strengthened bolt stop? Heck of an idea and I hope it gets approved by PRS, but even if it doesn't it would be applicable for range days.

 

[Dthomas3523]

If I was to order one today would I receive the older version or the version with the strengthened bolt stop? Heck of an idea and I hope it gets approved by PRS, but even if it doesn't it would be applicable for range days.

I don’t want to speak for Charlie. But he might be a little busy this week. I’m 99% sure you’d get the reinforced version.

Hopefully I’ll get one here soon and try to break it.

 

[Yowzilla]

I don’t want to speak for Charlie. But he might be a little busy this week. I’m 99% sure you’d get the reinforced version.

Hopefully I’ll get one here soon and try to break it.

Yep, thanks Dave, I am across the pond this week but the wife has been fulfilling orders while I have been gone. Yes 100% of orders have been beefy version since I posted a few weeks ago about changes to all versions.

 

[Yowzilla]

And I must thank DThomas, he is the one that found the week spot of design!!! Thanks David.....