PRS rifle optimal weight

[The Pilgrim]

Seeing a lot of rifles on the PRS circuit that look like Arnie should be carrying them…seriously though, how heavy do you need a 6mm/6.5 to be for barricade work? I get the stability part but surely you can make a reasonably heavy rifle work without looking like Popeye after the event…I mean how much recoil is there in a 6mm…

 

[LR1845]

IMHO as heavy as you can handle and still be able to move quickly on prop's....you see its not about the shoulder dislocating recoil of a 6 or 6.5 its more about keeping your reticle on target when in odd positions during recoil to see your trace or impact so that you can make a correction if needed.

 

[Newbie2020]

Until the competition requires more movement on the clock more is better. I have a weight system and take the weights off for field courses. For stability on barricades I can say simply more is better. 23 lbs is a nice weight for my rifle. The 16 lb version is more difficult to shoot well.

 

[moosemeat]

It's all about spotting trace from misses and correcting. Heavier is better. I'm sure if someone could swing it we would see 30+ pound dashes.
My 308 weighs 16pounds. I dont shoot PRS.

 

[Changed]

Over time you’ve seen the equipment adapt to the “Game”. That will never change unless the game changes. Are the rifles heavy? Sure. But, the weight is optimized for being successful at matches.

For example the NRL Hunter Series has changed the game. As such the equipment will evolve to the point it is optimized for that particular game.

 

[giumau1]

Honestly, I think we should start elaborating on this a little bit more.

If the scenario is very stable support, like a skill stage and in the end is something like 'barricade benchrest' as someone started calling it, yes, the heavier the better....

Anything wobbling, in my experience, it's at least to me a different story: stabilizing for free recoil a very heavy rifle takes ages...

 

[spife7980]

Seeing a lot of rifles on the PRS circuit that look like Arnie should be carrying them…seriously though, how heavy do you need a 6mm/6.5 to be for barricade work? I get the stability part but surely you can make a reasonably heavy rifle work without looking like Popeye after the event…I mean how much recoil is there in a 6mm…

Well that depends on how competitive you want to be?


Next Pilgram will be asking nascar why they need to go so fast just to have a race.

 

[Rob01]

They don’t have to be overly heavy. A 16-18 pound rifle can be used just fine especially with the bags and brakes being used today. Add in the light 6mms and there should be no issue shooting them off a prop.

 

[OREGUN]

Sounds like someone needs some more time at the gym.


but seriously, right around 23# seems to be about right for my BRA…I’m probably a little heavy, using weight to compensate for poor technique…or trying to.

 

[DocRDS]

Gamers gotta game.

Any time you have a competition. ANY competition--people will find the limits of the rules to press their advantage. PRS, USPA, Baseball, Football, Chess, Cribbage, etc.

Any time that competition has a real-world counterpart, you will see things done that are counter to the 'rules' of real life (note 'rules' is in quotes as their generally are no real world 'rules').

PRS is no different than 3 gun or USPSA or even IDPA. I mean IDPA was formed to counter the USPSA equipment race, but becomes its own set of warped rules and rules lawyering.

Why are you competing? To win? Get a heavier rifle!
TO be a better shooter? take your rifle and shoot it. Don't worry about 'optimal' Does it work for you?

And you still are all pussies with your 20+ pound rifles shooting 6mm. But if i wanna win--get a 6 and strap on that weight! Where's my vag...

 

[giumau1]

yes, competing means pushing the limits, agreed...but then shooting dashers and BRs - expecially when Allison Zanes shoots and wins with 6 creed - is really too much gay, IMHO

 

[The Pilgrim]

Well that depends on how competitive you want to be?


Next Pilgram will be asking nascar why they need to go so fast just to have a race.

As PRS is new for me being competitive isn’t high on my list until I get kit squared away.

Anyone have a contact number for Nascar…

 

[OREGUN]

My 23 pound BRA switches barrels to become a six Creedmoor. I’m not a terrific prone, group-shooter to begin but even that slight change in recoil amplifies my errors. I don’t think it would make a single bit of difference in a PRS match because there‘s still not enough recoil that I couldn’t spot misses or see trace but for pure shooting groups, there is a difference that I attribute to my poor recoil management. I recently added forend, external weights not because I thought I needed more weight but because I figured it couldn’t hurt. I don’t think the weight inhibits my movement but I’m not sure it actually does anything positive for me either. It might just be in my head. A fundamentally good shooter, who THINKS (this game has a hugely underestimated mental component) would be competitive with any weight rifle.

 

[LR1845]

Sounds like someone needs some more time at the gym.


but seriously, right around 23# seems to be about right for my BRA…I’m probably a little heavy, using weight to compensate for poor technique…or trying to.

i am probably at 26lbs with my BRA with mag, gray ops plate and mini pad and double pull cyke pod....some of the stuff we shoot off and the positions you end up in makes good technique hard at times...your just trying to get stable and break a shot as quick as possible so the weight helps a lot.

 

[Changed]

I will also add, that for me, the weight on the rifle is to correctly balance it for shooting positional.

 

[The Pilgrim]

My 23 pound BRA switches barrels to become a six Creedmoor. I’m not a terrific prone, group-shooter to begin but even that slight change in recoil amplifies my errors. I don’t think it would make a single bit of difference in a PRS match because there‘s still not enough recoil that I couldn’t spot misses or see trace but for pure shooting groups, there is a difference that I attribute to my poor recoil management. I recently added forend, external weights not because I thought I needed more weight but because I figured it couldn’t hurt. I don’t think the weight inhibits my movement but I’m not sure it actually does anything positive for me either. It might just be in my head. A fundamentally good shooter, who THINKS (this game has a hugely underestimated mental component) would be competitive with any weight rifle.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Thanks for all the replies, more to think about with rifle set up.

 

[ormandj]

As many have mentioned, it’s the game at play. Once you divorce PRS from any notion of realistic scenarios, it becomes much easier to understand. I built a 20lb+ rifle to mess around with at the range and toy with PRS and immediately found it enormously off putting and went back to my typical 8-11lb setups. I’d never expect to win a PRS competition running this, but I’ll also be a lot more comfortable covering a half dozen miles on foot than someone lugging around a PRS game gun.

Trying to build a rifle that’s realistic and comfortable to use in the field if you’re doing anything but vehicular transport and short walks that will also be competitive on PRS against the 20lb+ monsters is a fool’s errand. I haven’t looked at NRL Hunter, but my next stop is finding a competition shooting sport that more closely matches a realistic scenario for me, so my competition actually helps me improve my field use.

 

[LR1845]

As many have mentioned, it’s the game at play. Once you divorce PRS from any notion of realistic scenarios, it becomes much easier to understand. I built a 20lb+ rifle to mess around with at the range and toy with PRS and immediately found it enormously off putting and went back to my typical 8-11lb setups. I’d never expect to win a PRS competition running this, but I’ll also be a lot more comfortable covering a half dozen miles on foot than someone lugging around a PRS game gun.

Trying to build a rifle that’s realistic and comfortable to use in the field if you’re doing anything but vehicular transport and short walks that will also be competitive on PRS against the 20lb+ monsters is a fool’s errand. I haven’t looked at NRL Hunter, but my next stop is finding a competition shooting sport that more closely matches a realistic scenario for me, so my competition actually helps me improve my field use.

and this is the beauty of most chassis systems is how easily tunable they are...i can drop about 8lbs just removing the weights and gray ops plate and mini pad and probable another pound if i swap the 1.25" barrel for the heavy palma i have in my safe so now im down to about 17lbs in a matter of 15 minutes.

and if your running an 8-11lb gun thats a lot of carbon fiber or a skinny hunting profile barrel with a light scope and a plastic stock im guessing?

 

[The Pilgrim]

As many have mentioned, it’s the game at play. Once you divorce PRS from any notion of realistic scenarios, it becomes much easier to understand. I built a 20lb+ rifle to mess around with at the range and toy with PRS and immediately found it enormously off putting and went back to my typical 8-11lb setups. I’d never expect to win a PRS competition running this, but I’ll also be a lot more comfortable covering a half dozen miles on foot than someone lugging around a PRS game gun.

Trying to build a rifle that’s realistic and comfortable to use in the field if you’re doing anything but vehicular transport and short walks that will also be competitive on PRS against the 20lb+ monsters is a fool’s errand. I haven’t looked at NRL Hunter, but my next stop is finding a competition shooting sport that more closely matches a realistic scenario for me, so my competition actually helps me improve my field use.

You’ve basically answered my question, this is my scenario, I’m in the middle of pulling kit together but I am also trying to decide on a rig that can be used comfortably to get use to the PRS discipline and hone barricade skills. If I can achieve this I’ll build a more competitive rig going forward. I see a lot of trial and error with different equipment, what works for one doesn’t necessarily work for another.

 

[Ledzep]

About 2 years ago I finally said "Fuck it!" and built a gamer gun. Up to that point my mentality was that I should shoot a rifle in competition that was of practical use-- something I would take hunting. I got tired, however, of watching (the lack of) recoil on 25lb 6 dashers on the firing line while I was shooting a 12-14lb 22" 6.5 Creedmoor. So I have a 20-25lb, 28" 6mm ARC (depending on weight kit configuration) with a retardo Area 419 brake. You're playing a game and the points count. There is no benefit to being a badass, being practical, style points, etc... If you see your trace, if you see your miss, if you see the swing of the plate from an impact, it's more points on the board. If you don't see it, you're flying blind. That said, if PRS/NRL matches vanished tomorrow, I'd trim 10lb out of that rifle.

NRL Hunter is a much better fit for the mentality I originally had with PRS. I've got an 11lb 6.5 Creedmoor honest-to-God hunting rifle and it fits the bill perfectly. The courses of fire are very fun, and they're much more "individual" matches. No wind sharing, spot your own targets, realistic ranges. A thoroughly good time at each one I've been to.

 

[Rob01]

You’ve basically answered my question, this is my scenario, I’m in the middle of pulling kit together but I am also trying to decide on a rig that can be used comfortably to get use to the PRS discipline and hone barricade skills. If I can achieve this I’ll build a more competitive rig going forward. I see a lot of trial and error with different equipment, what works for one doesn’t necessarily work for another.

There will always be trial and error and when the game changes you will have to change gear up in minor ways. The rifle I shot 18 years ago when I started shooting the sport would not be a good choice today.

 

[ormandj]

and this is the beauty of most chassis systems is how easily tunable they are...i can drop about 8lbs just removing the weights and gray ops plate and mini pad and probable another pound if i swap the 1.25" barrel for the heavy palma i have in my safe so now im down to about 17lbs in a matter of 15 minutes.

and if your running an 8-11lb gun thats a lot of carbon fiber or a skinny hunting profile barrel with a light scope and a plastic stock im guessing?

MDT HNT26 folder, Bartlein 3b (steel) 20” with a heavy 50deg twist flute, TBAC ultra7, Vortex 4.5-22 lht on the current build. So you’re somewhat correct (barrel isn’t MTU but 3b will handle strings of fire just fine), but even swapping on one of my ZCOs it’s still light.

Don’t have my rings in yet, but it will be 9lbs 5.9oz complete with 3rd magazine, scope and rings, and suppressor. I stuck it on a scale for you for proof (9lbs 0.3oz since display is hard to read). Ignore scope orientation, and keep in mind my rings will add 5.6oz. 10 round magazine will obviously add a little more weight but it’s still plenty handy.

 

[LR1845]

MDT HNT26 folder, Bartlein 3b (steel) 20” with a heavy 50deg twist flute, TBAC ultra7, Vortex 4.5-22 lht on the current build. So you’re somewhat correct (barrel isn’t MTU but 3b will handle strings of fire just fine), but even swapping on one of my ZCOs it’s still light.

Don’t have my rings in yet, but it will be 9lbs 5.9oz complete with 3rd magazine, scope and rings, and suppressor. I stuck it on a scale for you for proof (9lbs 0.3oz since display is hard to read). Ignore scope orientation, and keep in mind my rings will add 5.6oz. 10 round magazine will obviously add a little more weight but it’s still plenty handy.

View attachment 7719801

I can see the display very well…that’s a nice rifle.
Is that chassis solid? Like not flexy?

 

[Shoots 700's]

Super heavy gun and ultra light triggers, whats not to like? My 6.5x47 and 6 Dasher both come in around 21 lbs. Works for me, but I would like to see some tighter rules around weight and triggers.

 

[ormandj]

I can see the display very well…that’s a nice rifle.
Is that chassis solid? Like not flexy?

It’s just as sturdy as my MPA chassis, just a heck of a lot lighter. Carbon fiber and magnesium are no joke, and carbon on all the handling points is a heck of a lot nicer in the cold.

Don’t want to derail this thread too much, just wanted to point to the direction I took when I had the same realization: PRS wasn’t for me because you had to run a 20lb+ rifle to hang, and I had no use for one. Happy to chat about the rifle(s) in PM until I finish the build and post a thread.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Here’s where I’m currently at with my rig, I’m going to add a few bits yet but it’s shooting well.

 

[LR1845]

Here’s where I’m currently at with my rig, I’m going to add a few bits yet but it’s shooting well.

easy ways to find out how its going to work is either set up some props and shoot off them if you have a spot you can do that or shoot a local tactical type match then you can figure out what needs to change if anything.

 

[4O6shootist]

I run a few different setups, field match is arc xylo chassis no weights, 28" hvy varmint 25 creed, it's at 19# w/ Ckypod. Prs positional stuff, mpa matrix w/ all weights, Ckyepod and gray ops plate, and it's almost 28#. I had to add all the weight to balance the rifle in front the mag well as the matrix is so ass heavy. I'm a gym rat and strong as F, I can move around w/ my heavy rig faster than most with a light rig. The weight def helps spot shots and stability on props.

 

[ormandj]

Gym rat better not try to carry a 28lb rifle 10 miles a day in rough terrain. But I also wouldn’t want to shoot against a 28lb rifle fielding a 9lb rifle for PRS. All about the game! You can probably send two and spot both without disturbing that beast, hah!

 

[4O6shootist]

Gym rat better not try to carry a 28lb rifle 10 miles a day in rough terrain. But I also wouldn’t want to shoot against a 28lb rifle fielding a 9lb rifle for PRS. All about the game! You can probably send two and spot both without disturbing that beast, hah!

My hunting guns are 9-12# all up. I'm not going full retard and packing that heavy a rig up the mountains. The rifle is super easy to spot with 135s going 2900fps. I believe working the stiff bolt of my nucleus disturbs the rifle more than anything. I plan to switch to a BnA tac sport pro with lower sear heights to try tune that lift out. Either that or get an archimedes.

 

[ormandj]

My hunting guns are 9-12# all up. I'm not going full retard and packing that heavy a rig up the mountains. The rifle is super easy to spot with 135s going 2900fps. I believe working the stiff bolt of my nucleus disturbs the rifle more than anything. I plan to switch to a BnA tac sport pro with lower sear heights to try tune that lift out. Either that or get an archimedes.

If you're not concerned about weight (as you clearly are not on the PRS build), and aren't stuck on the brand, just swap into an Impact 737r, and use whatever trigger you already have. I've got one with a TT diamond, and the bolt is easy to run without disturbing anything. I know it's the trendy action, but it's up there in smoothness compared to other options. I haven't had my hands on an archimedes, though, so I'd be curious to hear if people have A/B'd them.

 

[Ledzep]

You can also get lighter springs for the Nucleus. I think 18-20lb is the sweet spot. I cut 4 coils off of my 25lb spring to make ~20lb and it was a pretty significant improvement for bolt lift. Haven't had any light primer strikes.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Forgive me if I sound stupid (considering over the weekend I lost an altercation with my table saw in a “Split” decision, I am feeling pretty stupid.) BUT

all this discussion over, well that won’t make a good hunting rifle and that won’t make a good PRS rifle, well…What’s wrong with having a Hunting Rifle AND a Precision Rifle??? That said, meet main hunting rifle and my PRS rifle

 

[4O6shootist]

If you're not concerned about weight (as you clearly are not on the PRS build), and aren't stuck on the brand, just swap into an Impact 737r, and use whatever trigger you already have. I've got one with a TT diamond, and the bolt is easy to run without disturbing anything. I know it's the trendy action, but it's up there in smoothness compared to other options. I haven't had my hands on an archimedes, though, so I'd be curious to hear if people have A/B'd them.

I'm not a big impact fan, had one, ran it for a half a season and sold it. I much prefer a 100% cock on open action.

You can also get lighter springs for the Nucleus. I think 18-20lb is the sweet spot. I cut 4 coils off of my 25lb spring to make ~20lb and it was a pretty significant improvement for bolt lift. Haven't had any light primer strikes.

I'm running the 19# spring in mine, I tried the 16# and it made a small difference, but I had tested es on my loads prior and after the spring swap and from my data, it went from low teens to dang near 30. Swapped back to the 19#. I know a lot of people have found the arc action to drag the cocking piece across the top the trigger sear rather heavily, causing heavier lift. So I'll be trying a low sear BnA trigger and see if it makes a difference. I know I hated the bolt lift/close on my origin, after properly timing a TT diamond to the cocking piece, now I love that thing and it runs SO smooth with easy open, effortless close.

 

[kthomas]

About 2 years ago I finally said "Fuck it!" and built a gamer gun. Up to that point my mentality was that I should shoot a rifle in competition that was of practical use-- something I would take hunting. I got tired, however, of watching (the lack of) recoil on 25lb 6 dashers on the firing line while I was shooting a 12-14lb 22" 6.5 Creedmoor. So I have a 20-25lb, 28" 6mm ARC (depending on weight kit configuration) with a retardo Area 419 brake. You're playing a game and the points count. There is no benefit to being a badass, being practical, style points, etc... If you see your trace, if you see your miss, if you see the swing of the plate from an impact, it's more points on the board. If you don't see it, you're flying blind. That said, if PRS/NRL matches vanished tomorrow, I'd trim 10lb out of that rifle.

NRL Hunter is a much better fit for the mentality I originally had with PRS. I've got an 11lb 6.5 Creedmoor honest-to-God hunting rifle and it fits the bill perfectly. The courses of fire are very fun, and they're much more "individual" matches. No wind sharing, spot your own targets, realistic ranges. A thoroughly good time at each one I've been to.

On the flip side, its fun to get away from that crowd, and not worrying about every single possible point.

I think the next PRS match that I'm going to shoot (whenever that happens to be) will be with a suppressed .308.

 

[spife7980]

On the flip side, its fun to get away from that crowd, and not worrying about every single possible point.

I think the next PRS match that I'm going to shoot (whenever that happens to be) will be with a suppressed .308.

It does feel sorta nice to get a tac class trophy after feeling inadequate for all the prior matches. Even if you do still finish in the bottom half of the pack overall

 

[kthomas]

It does feel sorta nice to get a tac class trophy after feeling in adequate for all the prior matches. Even if you do still finish in the bottom half of the pack overall.

Well there is always that option for those that need a podium finish in a grass roots sport if you need that kind of confirmation in your life

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

My feelings about trophies. Winning one, regardless of placement, (normally) represents hard work, and sacrifice. It should be cherished as a memorial to the effort taken to win the trophy.

However, if just acquiring trophies is what is really important, a fellow or lady can go to a trophy shop and purchase a whole bunch of trophies for a lot less money, than purchasing the rifles / horses/ bicycles / golf clubs / boats / tennis rackets / etc used to acquire said trophies in the normal manner.