Gunsmithing PTG Bolt Problem

[woodsy]

Anyone having problems with PTG bolts?

I finished another .260 build tonight and went out back to see how she shoots. This rifle was built with a PTG bolt and was fitted pretty tight. The lugs were machined for 2-3 thou play at the bolt handle. She closes fine on the go gauge but not on the gauge plus 2 thou worth of tape on the base of the gauge itself. Chamber is good, bolt nose clearance is good, and the machining of the lugs is good. Receiver was trued before barreling.

I had a very difficult time chambering rounds. It acted like the shoulder on the case wasn’t set back far enough but the problem ended up being the extractor. I ordered this bolt with the Remy extractor instead of the mini 16 (my first mistake). What is going on is that there is very little to no play so it doesn’t snap over the case rim. It cuts/rolls the edge of the rim instead. It’s not the extractor; I’ve tried 3 of them. It almost seems like the groove in the bolt head wasn’t cut deep enough to allow the extractor to move.

Has anyone else had this particular problem?

I’ll be calling PTG tomorrow but wondered if anyone else is having these issues. I suspect they’ll want to see it but we’ll know for sure tomorrow. I’ll gladly send it back but it kind of sucks that a new rifle is going to sit until we get this cleared up. Guess that'll give me an excuse to get started on the Swift.

Hopefully they’ll help me get this sorted out and then tell me when I can expect the bolt for a waiting .223AI build. That’s been ordered since last fall.

 

[my human host]

Have you checked both the recess in the bolt and the extractors for burrs? I had to sand a few thou off the thickness of the extractor for the PTG bolt in my 6.5 Creed. Can't say if it was due to the bolt or a screw up from Remington, tho.

 

[woodsy]

Have you checked both the recess in the bolt and the extractors for burrs? I had to sand a few thou off the thickness of the extractor for the PTG bolt in my 6.5 Creed. Can't say if it was due to the bolt or a screw up from Remington, tho.

I did. Couldn't find any burs but, as an experiment, I sanded an old extractor just to see if that'd work. No dice.

Edit - Checked a few of my factory Remingtons and it appears that the extractor recess on the PTG is pretty shallow. I can't really measure it effectively but the factory recess appears much deeper.

 

[jonaddis84]

I'm confused, the fact that it won't close on go +2 thou just means it was headspaced properly. I still would suspect your shoulder bump, have you measured a fired case with a headspace comparator compared to your sized brass?

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[woodsy]

I'm confused, the fact that it won't close on go +2 thou just means it was headspaced properly. I still would suspect your shoulder bump, have you measured a fired case with a headspace comparator compared to your sized brass?

That's exactly what I suspected at first but if I remove the extractor then the rounds chamber with a very slight drag on the bolt. I'm calling that just about perfect. This chamber was cut exactly like the last one (using a MARS) so brass reloaded and fired in one should fit and fire in the other just fine. Little to no play in the extractor and resulting damage to the rim of the case narrows the suspects.

Talked with PTG today and the bolt is on its way back. Preliminary diagnosis was that the extractor cut is on the shallow side. They're going to take a look and recut so hopefully we'll be back in business soon.

 

[scotharr]

I had this problem with some defiance bolts. Greg Tannel can fix it quickly and correctly. As you said, if the extractor groove is not cut deep enough, the extractor has no place to go and won't clip over the case rim or does so with difficulty. A tell tale sign of this problem is brass shavings from the rim. Give Greg a call if PT&G can't help: he is fantastic.

 

[woodsy]

Update on this deal - I ended up sending the bolt back to PTG but still do not have it back. They logged it into their system on 4/20 but nothing has been done to date. Calls and/or e-mail typically result in a "let me check and I'll get back to you". Some times they do but not always.

This is an exercise in frustration. I've been nothing but cordial when contacting them and am trying to be understandable about their recent move and all of the associated problems with such an endeavor but it's getting old. The bolt has been at their shop for a month now and they still haven't gotten to it. Shit! All I need is the extractor groove recut. How hard can it be??

I also finally got the bolt that I ordered for a .223AI build last fall. That bolt was cut 0.008" offset at the rear by the handle which meant there was no way it was going to fit the raceway without some fitting. Nevertheless, I got it fitted and finished the build. It works fine but that offset cut under the handle looks a little weird.

Anyone know WTF is going on at PTG? Are they in self-destruct mode or are they trying to divorce the small guy market in favor of distributers?

 

[Killswitch Engage]

I'm going to be the asshole here but I will say it. Ptg fucking sucks these days. I can't count on one hand the shit they've fucked up to me alone in the last 6mo. I know countless others who have had same sorts of issues. Incorrect grind on reamers, mismarked reamers, improperly cut extractor groove in mini16 bolt, etc etc. not to mention the phone bimbos that have no damn clue what you're even talking about. They have really went off the reservation lately. Hope they get their shit together soon.

 

[my human host]

Honestly, I'm not sure the PTG bolts are worth the hassle unless the factory bolt has serious issues. I've used several of them and unless you ream the boltway (I don't), the benefits over a retimed factory bolt seem to modest at best.

 

[300sniper]

Honestly, I'm not sure the PTG bolts are worth the hassle unless the factory bolt has serious issues. I've used several of them and unless you ream the boltway (I don't), the benefits over a retimed factory bolt seem to modest at best.

Having a true one-piece bolt/body/handle is absolutely worth it to me. Then again, I've also never had a hassle with them.

 

[PCR]

I'm going to be the asshole here but I will say it. Ptg fucking sucks these days. I can't count on one hand the shit they've fucked up to me alone in the last 6mo. I know countless others who have had same sorts of issues. Incorrect grind on reamers, mismarked reamers, improperly cut extractor groove in mini16 bolt, etc etc. not to mention the phone bimbos that have no damn clue what you're even talking about. They have really went off the reservation lately. Hope they get their shit together soon.

Same feeling here!!! We've been replacing all of our PT&G reamers with JGS and it has been worth the expense to say the least. We've had problems with dragging reamers and I could make a long list of parts and ordering frustrations. That said, their parts are very important to our operation and we will continue to use them. The benefits of building an M700 with a 1 piece PT&G bolt outways the risk so we keep hoping these things will be worked out.

 

[ugsly]

Latley when I call PTG they have a lot of new employees. They dont know a lot and its hard to get a reamer print. I know Dave has been extremely swamped and hopefully over time he can get things running a little smoother. I know he expanded and fell behind on lead times but now hopfully with his new building and machines he can speed up production and watch his quality.

Casey

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Having a true one-piece bolt/body/handle is absolutely worth it to me. Then again, I've also never had a hassle with them.

I think you're the exception. Not the rule anymore

 

[sentry1]

Latley when I call PTG they have a lot of new employees. They dont know a lot and its hard to get a reamer print. I know Dave has been extremely swamped and hopefully over time he can get things running a little smoother. I know he expanded and fell behind on lead times but now hopfully with his new building and machines he can speed up production and watch his quality.

Casey

Their customer service people, while polite, have been useless in terms of answering questions on the few occasions I tried to order parts myself.

 

[woodsy]

Having a true one-piece bolt/body/handle is absolutely worth it to me. Then again, I've also never had a hassle with them.

I don't know. Six months ago I would have agreed with you but now I'm beginning to think that TIG in the shop will be seeing a little more use. Had I used the old bolt in the first place this build would be completed and I'd have a load developed.

It takes over a month to recut an extractor groove? Really??

 

[woodsy]

So it's June 15 and still no bolt. I spoke with a gentleman from PTG on June 6 who gave me his word that my bolt would be fixed and sent out on the following Monday. I doubt it takes a week for something like that to make the trip. Of course, it could have made a swing through Europe or gotten lost but, nevertheless, it's not here. Perhaps it will show up tomorrow.

We're sneaking up on a full two months of it being at PTG's shop. WT doubleF!?!?! Please tell me that this hasn't become the norm for CS at PTG.

 

[selfbowhunter]

I absolutely love the products PTG offers and if I talk to dave while placing my orders, I generally have few issues. otherwise, there is not enough room here to list all of the lost orders that never shipped, wrong products shipped, or indefinitely delayed "in stock" orders I have had. The products are definitely worth the issues because no one else offers many of the things they do. just keeping it real and honest.[/You home yet?

I wrote this months ago. I hope they get it together because they CAN supply really nice products

 

[Sonic Crack]

Cant say that Ive been impressed with ptg. I have seen myself everything negative mentioned in this thread

 

[xringaccuracy]

PTG is expanding by leaps and bounds. I hope Dave can keep up, ie quality control as there have been a few rut rohs from them through our shop lately. Good on them for success, lets hope they keep the original mindset.

 

[jonaddis84]

I think someone else could start making bolts and do well along side them, obviously they are not easy and require quite a bit of specialized equipment though.

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[woodsy]

Been making calls daily trying to get this thing returned but no luck yet. I've made so many calls over the past 2 months that I've lost count. This has been handed off to others at PTG so many times I've lost count of that too. Finally talked to yet another guy today who said that he's "going to try to get it out by the 26th. WTF?!?!? I was told on the 6th that it was done and "in inspection" and would "go out on Monday". I told this gentleman that and his reply was that "there have been a lot of problems in that department lately".

I'm about at my wits end with this deal. Phone calls end up nothing more than getting to talk to yet another person at the shop with yet another run-around. Although I'm sure they're nice people, I really do not care to get to know everyone there. All I want is my fucking bolt back!! Fixed or not is moot at this point as I'll gladly either send it to someone who can handle the job or do it myself.

This isn't my first product purchased from PTG but it sure as hell is the worst in terms of correcting an issue. I have a lot of their tooling around here but I sure as hell am going to be a bit skittish ordering more. If this is their new model of CS then God help anyone that has a problem with one of their products.

I'm out of ideas at this point so what would you guys do? Sure would be nice if Dave would weigh in on this.

 

[stockdoc]

Bet you ten bucks they lost the thing and are just putting you off while they try and find it!

 

[Killswitch Engage]

This shit is ridiculous. Come on Dave...wtf is going on.

 

[woodsy]

Bet you ten bucks they lost the thing and are just putting you off while they try and find it!

No bet. I'm afraid that they've lost it and the end to this soap opera will be a replacement. That'll suck too because I had that thing headspaced perfectly. I'm not too crazy about tearing the build apart to fit another bolt.

 

[Cdiver0109]

What a shame. I've always held PTG in high regard, definitely hope they get their shot squared away

 

[W8-2112]

I just put in an order for a blueprinting reamer from PTG. Am I in for a rude awakening?

 

[Killswitch Engage]

What's a blueprinting reamer?

 

[jonaddis84]

Ordered two bolts around Feb 14th, just emailed last week checking status, they sent one of the two...and charged me $15.50 shipping for a $5.50 priority mail package when the order is not even complete. This is my biggest gripe with them which I've bitched about before, I spend so much Damn money on ptg shipping charges it's ridiculous just because they won't hold onto stuff until the order is complete.

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[Killswitch Engage]

guess these are the dangers of a near monopoly....

 

[xringaccuracy]

guess these are the dangers of a near monopoly....

Success has its pitfalls. I think Dave needs to get out of the office and install a manager but I am not in his shoes so I am guessing.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Whatever it is he needs to get it fixed RTFN

 

[XTREM HTR16]

I bought several Rem 700 SA BDL assemblies, both standard and oberndorf. The oberndorf don't fit the rem BDL inlet, I'll have to Dremel some out of the stock. The standard fit the stock, but the action screw holes don't line up so I can't screw it in.

Also bought some ADL trigger guards. Same problem. Action screw spacing is off.

IMO they're turning out junk.
I won't buy from them again.


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[woodsy]

In case anyone is wondering, here is the latest on this major cluster.

I’ve been working with Tami to get this resolved. Many calls have been made back and forth to get it actually done and shipped last Friday. I called on the 25th to see if it was going to ship and she confirmed that, yes, my one-piece, short action, .223 bolt face bolt is going out that day. Hum, that’s not right! I sent a .308 bolt.

We spoke again today and, apparently, some dipshit logged it in as a .223. Now they have no idea where my bolt is! We’ll talk again tomorrow but I’m not encouraged. I’ve spent untold hours trying to get this resolved without success and it’s getting really, really fucking annoying.

The situation is FUBAR. This will be the last fucking PTG bolt that passes through this shop and I’ll be sourcing reamers and the like elsewhere. There has to be someone out there that gives a shit about their customers unlike PTG.

TO ANYONE DOING BUSINESS WITH PTG – Watch your ass! I’m not sure what the fuck is going on there but the place seems to be run by incompetents. Tami’s been great at trying to figure this out but she seems to be the only one trying to rectify this situation. Dave has been MIA since he asked me to return it.

Yes, I am a small shop and PTG may place us lower on the priority list than the larger guys or distributers. I understand that to a point but none of that seems to play in this case. All that I needed done was the extractor grove cut deeper and it’s been there since April 20th. If they can’t find the time to do that in between larger jobs then the message they’re sending is pretty damned clear.

 

[woodsy]

Last update on this deal - Indeed they were about to ship a .223 bolt but Tami got it pulled before it went out. Having no idea where my original bolt ended up, they came up with a replacement and shipped it 2nd day. I was a bit skeptical about it actually arriving but arrive it did. Tami is true to her word! I've been working on other rifles so haven't had time to check to see if the extractor groove is correct on this one. It looks okay and the best part is that it appears that all it will need is a couple thou buzzed off the lugs to fit it to the action. This particular rifle is next on the "to do" list so we'll know for sure very soon.

Who knows what happened but it appears clear that the screw-up began with whoever logged my old bolt in. I did not include measurements of the bolt face in the letter that accompanied the bolt figuring that the person could simply look at it and tell what it was. This was a mistake on my part. Most of us can simply look at a bolt and tell what family of cartridges it fits but there are folks that cannot. It seems that I got the latter.

Since PTG is in the business of making bolts one wouldn’t think that you’d need to be very specific when returning one for service. That doesn’t seem to be the case. Had I included face ID, bolt OD, and specified “1-piece Remington short action” in my correspondence, my old bolt might not have become MIA. Of course this assumes that whoever logs returns in at PTG is detail oriented. Food for thought for the future but it may take me a while to get over this fiasco.

 

[Deadshot2]

What is going on is that there is very little to no play so it doesn’t snap over the case rim. It cuts/rolls the edge of the rim instead.

Have you looked to see if there is enough room for the end of the extractor to move in the groove. Is the extractor positioned correctly in the groove? One end should be up against the ejector. Take a close look at the groove and make sure that the "hook" is positioned at the point where the groove is the deepest. Make sure there are no burrs or sharp edges that prevent free movement of the extractor clip in the groove. If you have an old extractor, bend it so the ends are closer to together and slip it in place. The "hook" should all but disappear in the groove if the groove is the correct depth.

Yes, you did error when you ordered the standard Rem extractor but it should still work fine. PTG makes some fine bolts, even to the point where many will just "drop in" to a factory setup with no "headspacing" required.

 

[jonaddis84]

Heres a new fun fact about PTG.

They now charge when you order, even if youre going to wait 6 months for a bolt. Something about being PCI compliant?

 

[AMF]

Well at least I'm not the only one. Here is my story.

I called PT&G to see if they would make a Sako bolt. I spoke to Dave. He said that they could do it and asked that I send in the factory bolt. I sent the factory bolt in to PT&G in January. I waited a few months and then called to check on the status. The CS rep couldn't figure out who I was or what I was taking about. She said she would look into it and call me back later that day. I never received a call. I called back a few days later and was again told they they would look into it and call me back. This time I did get a call back and was told that the work should start in approximately two weeks. I didn't hear anything for a month, so I called again to check on it. This began a nearly month long process of talking to numerous different CS reps to eventully find out that no work had taken place. I was once again told that the work would be done soon. When I called at the begining of August I was told that no work had been done and that it wouldn't likely be completed until the first part of 2015. When I complained about the time it was taking to complete the work the CS rep indicated that, according to their system, I placed the order in June. Again, it was January. I asked that they return the bolt, which they promptly did. In short, I was without my factory bolt [which of course meant I couldn't shoot the rifle] for close to 8 months and have nothing to show for it. If it's going to take 15-18 months to make a bolt for a customer that's probably something that PT&G should have brought up in the initial discussion. Also, don't tell a customer that the work is going to begin in a couple of weeks if that isn't the case. What is the saying in sales/service jobs? Something about how you should always under promise and over deliver. That's certainly not what happened in my case.

 

[MarinePMI]

Heres a new fun fact about PTG.

They now charge when you order, even if youre going to wait 6 months for a bolt. Something about being PCI compliant?

Huh. Really? I don't seem to recall Eurooptic or MHS needing to do that...

 

[jonaddis84]

I will say I had a much better experience ordering a reamer yesterday. Spent plenty of time with me discussing dimensions, then once we decided on a spec I had a print in my email within 10 minutes and a sales order within another little while. Seems like maybe they are TRYING to get their shit together, but this was also only one particular event so we shall see.