PVA John Hancock Rifle Status

Bitjglr

Private
Minuteman
Dec 8, 2018
12
13
Waterford, MI
Happy anniversary to me. It's been one year since I ordered my JHR so I decided to give them a call and see whats up.
I spoke with Joe. At this point they say they can't get parts and are unwilling to commit to a date, even as far out as March 2020. I didn't ask which parts, I just don't care anymore. After discussing it with Joe my options boiled down to this:

1. They will apply the $250 down payment toward a barreled action. I can use the action of my choice, I buy it and sent it to them. BigHorn actions, the TL3 and Origin they could supply. Turn around time is 4 to 6 weeks.

2. They will refund my $250 dollars. Josh will need to approve it, then they mail a check. This is the option I chose. Well see how long it option takes.
 
It's disappointing. I had hoped to do a PRS shoot or two with some friends so had thought the JH would be a good way to get started in the sport and in the production class. I"m coming up on a year from when I ordered (when they had them advertised during black Friday) and it sounded like they were making headway into getting back orders filled. At least a few folks were getting completed rifles and they seemed to be shooting very well.

I talked to them briefly last week and got the same "parts supply" issues. I can purchase the parts for roughly the same price, but pretty sure that keeps me out of the production class, plus I just liked the whole "John Hancock" theme for the rifle.

I wonder if it still is the whole labeling of the John Hancock vs ARC Nucleus that's part of the issue. I did see KRG bravos are out of stock now on KRG's website.

I guess I'll call later this week and see what we can decide. I"m headed to the precision rifle expo this weekend, maybe I can pick up some parts from vendors while I"m there...
 
I can have a Nucleus barreled action spun up and ready for delivery within 96 hours of the parts hitting my floor.

Add 72 hours for a fluted barrel.
Add 96 hours for Cerakote.

A K/P Barrel takes me a week to get at the most. I stock the popular stuff (6.5 Sendero's etc...)

If you are truly desperate, I can rush a barrel order and if it's placed at 8am I can pick it up SAME DAY at around 5pm. That is no shit however you will pay for the privilege. (This is for a K&P brand barrel only and I have to check with them first to lock it down, but they've not once let me down in over 5 years)

Just know that Bellagio service does not come at Motel 6 rates. The barrel will cost more.

We are always happy to help.

C.

LRI.


EDIT: After speaking with ARC shortly after throwing this up on here, I am awaiting updated inventory counts. They have north of 60+ actions however they are not all complete. Approximately 5-10 are 99% there, but in the interest of being transparent on this, they want to do a quick inventory and get back to me. When I have that information, I'll make another edit to this post.


EDIT II (9.26.19) : Spoke with ARC (Ted) last evening. I can have 10 RH/SA Nucleus actions shipped TODAY.
 
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LRI has done some work for me in the past and I highly recommend them. My experience with PVA seems to mirror many other peoples. I ordered a chassis and a folder for it. Eventually I got the chassis but never got the folding mechanism. An expensive lesson but one I will not soon forget.
 
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Anyone remember the famous SH group buy around 8 years ago?
Folks were waiting around 2 years for the rifles, some were never delivered and many weren't right?
It's a shame this type of thing appears t be happening.
I am certain that PVA is making every attempt to get things out the door.
That is part of the problem of relying on third party vendors.
 
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You know, these PVA threads really sadden me. Two years ago, I knew almost nothing about precison shooting. However, after some research and reading, I was ready to drop $1,000 on a new Tika, Bergerra, or a Howa rifle, my first precision rifle. I just wasn't quite sure of the manufacturer that I wanted, and I just couldn't afford a true custom rifle.

Just about the time I was ready to pull the trigger, Patriot Valley Arms announced a new rifle for under $2,000. It was going to be as good as a custom, but at an off the shelf rifle price. Now I had never heard of PVA, but the praises for them, and their past work, on this site were almost endless. They were talked so good about on here, that I reluctantly doubled my budget, and put down a deposit with an unknown to me company and a new John Hancock Rifle. It was way more money than I had ever spent on a gun before. This was January 29th, of last year, right after SHOT, if I remember correctly. The rifles were supposed to be released in April. I was excited, and couldn't wait for it to be delivered.

In the mean time, I had signed up for a private long range get-together/unknown distance course at the Whittington Center for September, with several forum members on another site. I figured that if I got the rifle in April, I should still have plenty of time to work up a load, and learn enough about long range shooting to get me through the class. April came and went. Then May. I spoke with Jeremy and Josh a couple times. June, July then August went by. I was forced to cancel my trip. I was extremely disappointed. I was seriously concerned, along with several others on here, about maybe not getting a rifle at all, and losing our deposit money, but we were continuously reassured, by members on here, that the rifle would be worth the wait.

Finally, in December, a little over 10 months after I ordered it, I received my rifle. It's a beautiful rifle, to me anyway, and it shoots frikkin lights out...way better than I can. I am extremely pleased with it. Was it worth the wait? I think it was. I was thinking after people, including myself, started getting rifle orders filled, that PVA would soon be caught up, and shipping out new orders just about as soon as they get them.

For some reason however, a year later, they seem to still be having issues getting rifles and components out the door. The mood and the feelings for PVA on here, have turned a complete 180 degrees, and it's truly disappointing to see. It seems they make a fantastic products and frikkin awesome rifles. I know several of the reasons for the delay on the JHR were ATF approvals, moving to a new shop, new CNC equipment, etc. But that's all been worked out. They are now saying parts availability is the reason for the delay.

I don't know what the delays are, and I'm not going to pretend to know, and right now, I have no skin in the game. All I know, is that two years after nothing but praises here on the Hide, it's now just gloom and doom, and it's been sad to watch the change in peoples attitude and feelings toward this company.

I really hope PVA gets their ducks in a row real soon. I would like, one day, to maybe order another rifle from them. I know that eventually, I will at least need a new barrel from them for my rifle. But there is no way I'm waiting a year for an off he shelf rifle or barrel. I would really like to see the confidence in them build back up to what it was before the JHR was released. I know it's going to be a tough uphill battle for them though, at least on here.

For all you people still waiting, some of you over a year, I really hope you receive your rifle real soon. Once it's in your hand, you will not be disappointed in the way it shoots. They really are very nice rifles.
 
I suspect that PVA’s ducks are dead.
If they delivered every rifle today they are still doomed.
Several factors here. You should not be taking deposits on things not in hand. If you get caught out, return the deposits.
And communicate truthfully and throughly.

If PVA had any intention of staying in business they would have jumped on this thread early and offered continual reassurance.
 
Several factors here. You should not be taking deposits on things not in hand. If you get caught out, return the deposits.


Hi,

While I agree, let us not act like PVA is/was the only company in this industry doing that.

It is rampant in this industry...shit....I can show you thread after thread where people paid for "Pre Orders" and production version (When they finally received it) was different than prototype version, etc etc.....So clearly those products were "not in hand" of the manufacturer(s) when they took customers money.

We see "Pre Orders" in this industry being done at times when the manufacturer(s) have not even finished programming the machines (Shit, sometimes they have not even finished the computer design/simulations) to even make the components...much less have them in hand.

Sincerely,
Theis
 

I agree with you and was in the same boat to a lesser degree. I ordered two barrels and finally got both of them.

The thing that initially made my mind up about going with PVA is that Josh was on here, a part of this community, answering questions about his products. Now its total silence from all of PVA. Including not being able to get a simple emailed question answered by anyone there about a freebore length.

Even though the products are good it leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Don't know that I'll go with them again.
 
To be fair, they never gave away their reamer specs. Even back when they were on here all the time.

This is partly why I became a PVA customer.

PVACapture.PNG


From this thread:

 
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Every time I've text him a question, he's answered.
Just asked a question a months ago about the freeborn in my 22 creed
Got the actual number back.
Just got a barrel chambered in 3 weeks.
Don't know what to tell you. Until his chamber jobs stop shooting .1's and .2's
I'll put up with the wait.
Order ahead of time.
Wasn't their a thread about how bad MPA's wait times are?
Theirs going to be the good and the bad everywhere. It's just how you handle it.
 
You know, these PVA threads really sadden me. Two years ago, I knew almost nothing about precison shooting. However, after some research and reading, I was ready to drop $1,000 on a new Tika, Bergerra, or a Howa rifle, my first precision rifle. I just wasn't quite sure of the manufacturer that I wanted, and I just couldn't afford a true custom rifle.

SNIP

For all you people still waiting, some of you over a year, I really hope you receive your rifle real soon. Once it's in your hand, you will not be disappointed in the way it shoots. They really are very nice rifles.

I'm in the same boat here (well, except I don't have a rifle). A couple of friends have shot some PRS rounds and I wanted to join in. I've got a 308 AR that I could shoot, but after doing a lot of research (analysis paralysis) last year around Thanksgiving they have a black friday deal for free shipping. That was enough to throw down the money for a deposit. At that point, they had been shipping completed rifles to people and it was looking like the move to new quarters was squared away. I had assume a few months wait at that point, maybe have it by summer.

As you mention, since then it seems like things haven't improved and maybe gone more downhill. Radio silence except for the new "parts availability" issue. But that seems to be pretty vague since there are really only 4 parts to the rifle- ARC Nucleus action (for sale now on the website), Rock Creek barrel, Timney Trigger and KRG bravo chassis. They still have Timney, KRG and Rock Creek on the website, so I have to assume there's been a falling out between ARC and PVA.

If there's been a falling out and ARC is no longer supplying actions to PVA, that's fine. BUT IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE SOME NOTIFICATION THAT THE RIFLES ARE NOT GOING TO BE AVAILABLE.. Maybe they are trying to source a new action for the JH, but IMHO the action is the heart of the rifle and if they change the action, it would be a different rifle IMHO.

The website currently states 6-9 months for delivery. I ordered in November 2018. That would have put my delivery between May and August 2019 (at the time I placed my order they were saying "a few months").

I"m headed to the Precision Rifle Expo this weekend with a group of friends and I still don't have a rifle after 10 months (not that I would be taking it there, but had assumed I'd be up to speed with the new rifle by now).

I know there are delays and waits for products, especially ones in demand and new, but I still can't fathom why there is a 10 month delay for a rifle with 4 parts that seem to be available on the open market.
 
<snip>
I have to assume there's been a falling out between ARC and PVA.
<snip>

This has crossed my mind too. I hope not, of if they have, I hope they can get it patched up.
Now the Nucleus that's on the John Hancock, is just a little different than the ARC Nucleus, as it has different markings. So legally, they can't just grab any Nucleus action and put it on a John Hancock. It has to be one with the correct roll marks on it. That is what the whole ATF delay was about last year, approving the variance on the action.

If they use a different, or new, action on the John Hancock, This will be another ATF delay. Ooh...it also means that a few of us have a very limited run of a rifle that will never be built again. I have number 11. That should make the collectability price of it skyrocket. :LOL:
 
Every time I've text him a question, he's answered.
Just asked a question a months ago about the freeborn in my 22 creed
Got the actual number back.
Just got a barrel chambered in 3 weeks.
Don't know what to tell you. Until his chamber jobs stop shooting .1's and .2's
I'll put up with the wait.
Order ahead of time.
Wasn't their a thread about how bad MPA's wait times are?
Theirs going to be the good and the bad everywhere. It's just how you handle it.
I only have 1 of their barrels but it is a shooter
 
I got a prefit barrel from them recently in 5 weeks from date of order to date received. It was NOT part of any of their recent sales, but they had the blank in stock. I’m extremely happy with it. I’ve had multiple groups that should’ve been in the 0.1’s but this damn monkey behind the trigger keeps making one fly on an outside edge, landing total overall 5 shot in the .2 or .3’s

Sad to see these kind of stories about PVA because my purchases from them have been nothing but positive. But reading these stories I definitely understand people’s frustration.
 
If it really is a cash flow issue, needing this money to pay for that, it makes me wonder if they would have been better off taking full payment up front. It might have still taken them as long to release and maybe fewer orders but they would have had the funds to push them on through instead of being semi hamstrung to float them all with partial funds through completion. I hope they can get this monkey off their back.
 
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This has crossed my mind too. I hope not, of if they have, I hope they can get it patched up.
Now the Nucleus that's on the John Hancock, is just a little different than the ARC Nucleus, as it has different markings. So legally, they can't just grab any Nucleus action and put it on a John Hancock. It has to be one with the correct roll marks on it. That is what the whole ATF delay was about last year, approving the variance on the action.

If they use a different, or new, action on the John Hancock, This will be another ATF delay. Ooh...it also means that a few of us have a very limited run of a rifle that will never be built again. I have number 11. That should make the collectability price of it skyrocket. :LOL:
My thinking exactly. I could buy a Nucleus and send it to them and get a barreled action made (sounds like pretty quickly) and then get a KRG bravo chassis and put a trigger in it and probably be in the same ballpark as the JH. BUT I can't use it for production class (maybe not a huge deal) and I'd really like to have a built rifle vs having me piece it together. And I thought the John Hancock story was cool and I like the badging/history. I've built AR's but never a bolt gun, not that I think it's that hard, but for my first real longer range rifle, I just wanted a solid rifle that is ready to roll out of the box so I can work on my skills and not second guess if I did something wrong with the build.
 
If it really is a cash flow issue, needing this money to pay for that, it makes me wonder if they would have been better off taking full payment up front. It might have still taken them as long to release and maybe fewer orders but they would have had the funds to push them on through instead of being semi hamstrung to float them all with partial funds through completion. I hope they can get this monkey off their back.
I'd be fine with prepaying for the remainder of the build. as long as I can get something in writing similar to their current sales deals where if it's not done in a certain amount of time there's a discount or refund. Otherwise send me a check back and move on with things. The whole JH fiasco has put a hurt on their reputation I"m sure. Doing the right thing by the customers goes a long way to building back their customer base and reputation. Everyone makes mistakes, it's how you handle them that is the deciding factor. Even with my long wait, if I could get the rifle in a short time period, I'd still love to have it.
 
I'd be fine with prepaying for the remainder of the build.
I would be scared to death to do that and here's why.

Clearly they are having major issues with their business. Speculating here but I'm sure they are having cash flow issues ,they just moved into a new big shop , bought new cnc machine have people on the payroll, etc.. . And with all the negative press with them lately they probably aren't generating enough cash (new business) to keep all their vendors current.

With the canned response "were having supplier issues" everyone seems to interpret that as "oh they must be waiting on parts from xyz supplier. " when in fact it could mean they have outstanding balances with their suppliers and won't see another part until a payment is made on their part.

If that is the case I wouldn't dare send more of my money on a custom rifle I might not ever see.

If it all ends in tears and they shut the doors you can bet on the fact you won't see a dime of any kind of deposit you gave them. Your only option @ that point would be legal action and pray he doesn't go chapter 7.

Again this is my opinion that nobody asked for and I could be way off base with my thinking. But I'll tell you what, a company that has mislead so many people, strung them along with empty promises, and even turn off pms from a forum that did nothing but support them ,(because their to busy?!?) clearly something is going on and is majorely wrong...they have given themselves an almost impossible task of turning it around if they want to stay in business.

I do however wish them the best and hope they can get it together.
 
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I hate to hear that, I've got a few of their muzzle brakes, and they are some of the finest on the market. Also, every rifle that I've seen that was produced by them was a fine piece of equipment and very reliable. I still hope they can get this all back under control and on track.
 
I hate to hear that, I've got a few of their muzzle brakes, and they are some of the finest on the market. Also, every rifle that I've seen that was produced by them was a fine piece of equipment and very reliable. I still hope they can get this all back under control and on track.
I agree , no doubt about it ,they produce a excellent product. My post above was pure speculation on the delays and customer service atrocity.

I ordered a barrel couple years back and was blown away at the quality and the time Josh spent talking with me before and after I ordered. Sad to see what a 180 they have done. I truly hope they can turn it around,but to be honest it feels like a train wreck is comin..
 
May get flamed for this but ....won't be the first time and sure not the last. Let me first say...if I was waiting as long for a JHR as most I would be wound tight too. What I can say is I picked up a barrel from PVA over the summer and I cannot speak more highly of the craftsmanship, quality, and accuracy. I am working up loads now but this barrel is showing amazing groups. I will not hesitate to buy many more from PVA.
 
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I can have a Nucleus barreled action spun up and ready for delivery within 96 hours of the parts hitting my floor.

Add 72 hours for a fluted barrel.
Add 96 hours for Cerakote.

A K/P Barrel takes me a week to get at the most. I stock the popular stuff (6.5 Sendero's etc...)

If you are truly desperate, I can rush a barrel order and if it's placed at 8am I can pick it up SAME DAY at around 5pm. That is no shit however you will pay for the privilege. (This is for a K&P brand barrel only and I have to check with them first to lock it down, but they've not once let me down in over 5 years)

Just know that Bellagio service does not come at Motel 6 rates. The barrel will cost more.

We are always happy to help.

C.

LRI.


EDIT: After speaking with ARC shortly after throwing this up on here, I am awaiting updated inventory counts. They have north of 60+ actions however they are not all complete. Approximately 5-10 are 99% there, but in the interest of being transparent on this, they want to do a quick inventory and get back to me. When I have that information, I'll make another edit to this post.


EDIT II (9.26.19) : Spoke with ARC (Ted) last evening. I can have 10 RH/SA Nucleus actions shipped TODAY.

The "Chad Hancock" rifle.
 
The "Chad Hancock" rifle.


In early September Sturgis hosted its annual "Mustang Rally." They show up in droves and its generally a good time. A close friend has one of these cars and I pick on him mercilessly as everyone in our little "click" owns a GM product.

So, he got "Tomacocked" at the drag strip by yours truly. The preamble to this was him talking shit to my wife about her choice in wheels for her G8.

"Tomacock" is when you purchase a 15" dildo, take it to a professional tattoo artist, have it "inked" with your message, then stick it to said friends car via the suction cup right as he's about to make a pass down the drag strip. -All for the world to see and admire as it flopped around and nearly put dents in his trunk lid. :)

My only purpose for bringing this up is that a few folks have suggested we (LRI) do a "Tomacock" rifle. I get the joke, however I think it's a bit of a slap to the Hancock name.

Anyways, here's a few pictures of the spectacle that you likely won't be able to wash away anytime soon, lol.

There is no limit to what I will do to humiliate a friend... :)

Tomacock vid



1569680561081.png


1569680573371.png
 
Tagging in here. I bought a John Hancock as a barreled action and it is a great rifle. Love the action and it just shoots. Seems like a lot of drama in this thread (which is warranted if PVA takes your money and goes dark) but I am hopeful things turn around for PVA as they obviously make a great product.

I've bought a couple of items from LRI and think they are top notch, setting the bar very high for others to follow. If I ever do a full custom build LRI is where I will go, no doubt about it.

I'm also a big fan of many options being a good thing. I'm loving the prefit barrels for competition style rifles as they get treated as an expendable component.

Lets not be a dark cloud to be overcome for companies that support what we do. I know its a fine line and PVA isn't making it any easier with the silent treatment.

Just my .02
 
In early September Sturgis hosted its annual "Mustang Rally." They show up in droves and its generally a good time. A close friend has one of these cars and I pick on him mercilessly as everyone in our little "click" owns a GM product.

So, he got "Tomacocked" at the drag strip by yours truly. The preamble to this was him talking shit to my wife about her choice in wheels for her G8.

"Tomacock" is when you purchase a 15" dildo, take it to a professional tattoo artist, have it "inked" with your message, then stick it to said friends car via the suction cup right as he's about to make a pass down the drag strip. -All for the world to see and admire as it flopped around and nearly put dents in his trunk lid. :)

My only purpose for bringing this up is that a few folks have suggested we (LRI) do a "Tomacock" rifle. I get the joke, however I think it's a bit of a slap to the Hancock name.

Anyways, here's a few pictures of the spectacle that you likely won't be able to wash away anytime soon, lol.

There is no limit to what I will do to humiliate a friend... :)

Tomacock vid



View attachment 7154833

View attachment 7154835


Please tell me that the SH group buy over the years helped, even in some incredibly insignificant way, towards the purchase of that dildo. How many millimeters can we claim as ours?

Similarly, how do you un-see something....
 
Happy anniversary to me. It's been one year since I ordered my JHR so I decided to give them a call and see whats up.
I spoke with Joe. At this point they say they can't get parts and are unwilling to commit to a date, even as far out as March 2020. I didn't ask which parts, I just don't care anymore. After discussing it with Joe my options boiled down to this:

1. They will apply the $250 down payment toward a barreled action. I can use the action of my choice, I buy it and sent it to them. BigHorn actions, the TL3 and Origin they could supply. Turn around time is 4 to 6 weeks.

2. They will refund my $250 dollars. Josh will need to approve it, then they mail a check. This is the option I chose. Well see how long it option takes.

Hey man I’m over a year now myself, just curious have you received your refund?
 
Well Ill be damned... I had seen him say that "this freebore is shorter" or "the free bore is longer" etc, relative measurements, but I never could get him to give me any actual numbers.

I ordered a 6.5prc labor day sale barrel from them online. I called that monday and asked them what freebore their 6.5prc reamer had, .188 was the reply. Really pretty easy and no dodging.
 
I ordered a 6.5prc labor day sale barrel from them online. I called that monday and asked them what freebore their 6.5prc reamer had, .188 was the reply. Really pretty easy and no dodging.
And Ive seen that hes even actually engraving it on some barrel markings as well now, I guess the time for secrecy has passed finally.
 
Not yet . They're always agreeable on the phone, sympathetic even. But nothing ever happens, still waiting on Josh's approval.
I just called talked to Josh. Got my $250 deposit moved for two jet blast brakes. Even though it was more than $250 they covered the rest ??. So don’t know if you’re in the market for any brakes or any of their in stock PVA products but it’s an option and I actually needed the brakes so it will worked out for me.
 
I just called talked to Josh. Got my $250 deposit moved for two jet blast brakes. Even though it was more than $250 they covered the rest ??. So don’t know if you’re in the market for any brakes or any of their in stock PVA products but it’s an option and I actually needed the brakes so it will worked out for me.
Excellent! I love those Jet Blast muzzle brakes.
 
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There is an old saying that still rings true to this day, "money makes the world go around". If no money, no products- not exclusive to one person, one entity or one's best of intentions. Wish all involved the best of luck for success.

TM6