I have a new Night Enforcer from TNVC and it seems to have a good tube with above average specs as I gather, but I must say I'm not too thrilled with its low light performance. Maybe its the ebi reading of "1" or maybe I'm not realistic of the performance of Gen3 filmed? So naturally my choice seems the IR flashlight/illumanator add on. What do you advise for a $200 budget? I dont need an extra long range unit, but 200 yards would be nice. The weaker the nm the better, like 850nm or higher if possible. I say that cuz I gather these powerful 804nm illuminators only increase the decay of a tube. Do I need to save a little more $$?
Night Vision PVS-14-17 in need of IR flashight, which?
- Thread starter boreal
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Re: PVS-14-17 in need of IR flashight, which?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boreal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a new Night Enforcer from TNVC and it seems to have a good tube with above average specs as I gather, but I must say I'm not too thrilled with its low light performance. Maybe its the ebi reading of "1" or maybe I'm not realistic of the performance of Gen3 filmed? So naturally my choice seems the IR flashlight/illumanator add on. What do you advise for a $200 budget? I dont need an extra long range unit, but 200 yards would be nice. The weaker the nm the better, like 850nm or higher if possible. I say that cuz I gather these powerful 804nm illuminators only increase the decay of a tube. Do I need to save a little more $$? </div></div>
Thank you for the purchase...All Nods filmless or filmed need some ambient light to operate and extreme low light challenges all.
We offer L3 filmless PVS-14's as well. Had Christmas specials on them and will have them full up on our site this week.
So you know, NO where close is there any such a dramatic differences between filmless and filmed tubes.
Heck, if you like send the thin filmed back (we'll pay for shipping) for a filmless system and see for yourself.
At 10,000hr tube life, unless you have constant on of a VERY high power IR source the "decay of the tube" is not a valid concern to worry yourself with.
The Surefire Vampire has a 175-200 yard range and is not overpowering if this is what you're looking for, but out of your budget. Surefire M1 has a 70-100 yard true range, but some report longer range but we do not consider much useful further than that. Thanks.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boreal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a new Night Enforcer from TNVC and it seems to have a good tube with above average specs as I gather, but I must say I'm not too thrilled with its low light performance. Maybe its the ebi reading of "1" or maybe I'm not realistic of the performance of Gen3 filmed? So naturally my choice seems the IR flashlight/illumanator add on. What do you advise for a $200 budget? I dont need an extra long range unit, but 200 yards would be nice. The weaker the nm the better, like 850nm or higher if possible. I say that cuz I gather these powerful 804nm illuminators only increase the decay of a tube. Do I need to save a little more $$? </div></div>
Thank you for the purchase...All Nods filmless or filmed need some ambient light to operate and extreme low light challenges all.
We offer L3 filmless PVS-14's as well. Had Christmas specials on them and will have them full up on our site this week. So you know, NO where close is there any such a dramatic differences between filmless and filmed tubes.
Heck, if you like send the thin filmed back (we'll pay for shipping) for a filmless system and see for yourself.
At 10,000hr tube life, unless you have constant on of a VERY high power IR source the "decay of the tube" is not a valid concern to worry yourself with.
The Surefire Vampire has a 175-200 yard range and is not overpowering if this is what you're looking for, but out of your budget. Surefire M1 has a 70-100 yard true range, but some report longer range but we do not consider much useful further than that. Thanks.
Re: PVS-14-17 in need of IR flashight, which?
Vic, Not quite sure what you mean as stated. "So you know, NO where close is there any such a dramatic differences between filmless and filmed tubes." Does your statement mean the filmless is typically better in dark performance or not much better if not equal? Do filmless have equal life as the stated 10,000 hours of thin film pinnacle? BTW, I appreciated your business, but I'm upset for not asking you the right questions for my need. Thats my fault as I didnt do my research fully and asking for a lower ebi prior to placing the order. I gotta say the pinnacle shines in high light situations of man made light polution, but not in nature's dark forests. Its been an adventure understanding this science as we all know its kept close to those with vested interest. I think I started out in the NV world with a great unit from TNVC overall. Its most likely I demand more of the technology today than what it really can provide compared to what I experienced in my time in service using NV Gen3 long ago. TNVC is the way to go as I know today. To put it in perspective I almost ordered from Cabelas ATN stock a few years ago. Noooooooooo!
If the Streamlight 850nm IR flashlight I just ordered doesnt do the trick I'll save some $$ for the Vampire by Surefire. Thanks Vic!
Vic, Not quite sure what you mean as stated. "So you know, NO where close is there any such a dramatic differences between filmless and filmed tubes." Does your statement mean the filmless is typically better in dark performance or not much better if not equal? Do filmless have equal life as the stated 10,000 hours of thin film pinnacle? BTW, I appreciated your business, but I'm upset for not asking you the right questions for my need. Thats my fault as I didnt do my research fully and asking for a lower ebi prior to placing the order. I gotta say the pinnacle shines in high light situations of man made light polution, but not in nature's dark forests. Its been an adventure understanding this science as we all know its kept close to those with vested interest. I think I started out in the NV world with a great unit from TNVC overall. Its most likely I demand more of the technology today than what it really can provide compared to what I experienced in my time in service using NV Gen3 long ago. TNVC is the way to go as I know today. To put it in perspective I almost ordered from Cabelas ATN stock a few years ago. Noooooooooo!
If the Streamlight 850nm IR flashlight I just ordered doesnt do the trick I'll save some $$ for the Vampire by Surefire. Thanks Vic!
Re: PVS-14-17 in need of IR flashight, which?
Filmless do perform a bit better in extreme darkness, they have to due to their filmless nature. Is it substantial over a filmed tube, not at all.
Dark canopy forests are the toughest for any I2 system out there btw. We have a few gents on our pro staff who returned from Afghanny, where the deepest valleys out in that theater just about rendered ALL NV virtually useless, filmed or unfilmed unless active IR was employed. This is where thermal really shined sorta speak.
Thanks for the kind words, and if you want that filmless, the offer still stands but nothing wrong with a 5 year warranty on your ITT tube.
Filmless do perform a bit better in extreme darkness, they have to due to their filmless nature. Is it substantial over a filmed tube, not at all.
Dark canopy forests are the toughest for any I2 system out there btw. We have a few gents on our pro staff who returned from Afghanny, where the deepest valleys out in that theater just about rendered ALL NV virtually useless, filmed or unfilmed unless active IR was employed. This is where thermal really shined sorta speak.
Thanks for the kind words, and if you want that filmless, the offer still stands but nothing wrong with a 5 year warranty on your ITT tube.
Re: PVS-14-17 in need of IR flashight, which?
Vic, Thanks for the gracious offer as it's tempting to experience a filmless tube and what it has to offer as it makes sense it would perform better under low light. I'll take your word that it doesnt perform substantially better over a thin filmed. At this point I feel the 5 year warranty of my Pinnacle outweighs the minor performance advantage of a filmless with its meager one year warranty. I guess I didnt expect todays Gen3 to need as much IR. I'll probably order the Surefire Vampire as the new $70 Streamlight TL-2, though nicely made, is a bit hot for its shorter range. It was advertised at a cooler 850nm, but when I opened the package the info stated a range of 780-850nm. Seems too bright for my tube when I tested it. Are Vampires, Luna and the Torch around 800nm?How much tube damage do powerful IR lights do over time or does the pinnacle do a good job at minimizing the damage?
Vic, Thanks for the gracious offer as it's tempting to experience a filmless tube and what it has to offer as it makes sense it would perform better under low light. I'll take your word that it doesnt perform substantially better over a thin filmed. At this point I feel the 5 year warranty of my Pinnacle outweighs the minor performance advantage of a filmless with its meager one year warranty. I guess I didnt expect todays Gen3 to need as much IR. I'll probably order the Surefire Vampire as the new $70 Streamlight TL-2, though nicely made, is a bit hot for its shorter range. It was advertised at a cooler 850nm, but when I opened the package the info stated a range of 780-850nm. Seems too bright for my tube when I tested it. Are Vampires, Luna and the Torch around 800nm?How much tube damage do powerful IR lights do over time or does the pinnacle do a good job at minimizing the damage?
Re: PVS-14-17 in need of IR flashight, which?
I really like the Surefire M1. It is le powerful, and I have it permanently mounted to my helmet.
It's not a cross-purpose like the Vamp or the Kroma (I have that one - nice but weaker output).
If you're looking for a pocket flashlight with white light and IR, Vamp it is. Basically same heads as their new LED replacements for their incandescent heads on all their weapon lights.
But for pure IR on a weapon, helmet or hand, M1 is the way to go. I just turn my gain down and let it rip, and it's a very powerful solution.
I really like the Surefire M1. It is le powerful, and I have it permanently mounted to my helmet.
It's not a cross-purpose like the Vamp or the Kroma (I have that one - nice but weaker output).
If you're looking for a pocket flashlight with white light and IR, Vamp it is. Basically same heads as their new LED replacements for their incandescent heads on all their weapon lights.
But for pure IR on a weapon, helmet or hand, M1 is the way to go. I just turn my gain down and let it rip, and it's a very powerful solution.
Re: PVS-14-17 in need of IR flashight, which?
Like the M1 a lot too. It's probably the cleanest IR beam I've used. Great for 70 yards and in work.
Like the M1 a lot too. It's probably the cleanest IR beam I've used. Great for 70 yards and in work.
Re: PVS-14-17 in need of IR flashight, which?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boreal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Vic, Thanks for the gracious offer as it's tempting to experience a filmless tube and what it has to offer as it makes sense it would perform better under low light. I'll take your word that it doesnt perform substantially better over a thin filmed. At this point I feel the 5 year warranty of my Pinnacle outweighs the minor performance advantage of a filmless with its meager one year warranty. I guess I didnt expect todays Gen3 to need as much IR. I'll probably order the Surefire Vampire as the new $70 Streamlight TL-2, though nicely made, is a bit hot for its shorter range. It was advertised at a cooler 850nm, but when I opened the package the info stated a range of 780-850nm. Seems too bright for my tube when I tested it. Are Vampires, Luna and the Torch around 800nm?How much tube damage do powerful IR lights do over time or does the pinnacle do a good job at minimizing the damage? </div></div>
Sorry, just saw this as sandwalkr bumped it..
Indeed, a 5 year tube warranty with the ITT Factory Night Enforcers over the slight performance gain with the filmless is a big consideration for many but we offer both for the choice.
You're discovering all Gen 3 NODS at times may need IR assistance in extreme dark areas espcially under tree canopy, into bushes themselves or shadows that are cast at night. Many folks forget about the shadowing effect even at night the best Gen 3 systems cannot see into, where IR illumination is key.
Obviously thermal pays dividends in these environments but do lack the crucial resolution I2 devices provide.
In regards to Da Torch, it works in the 805nm spectrum and unless you have the units trained on something close distance for a long period of time, you have low risk of a burn in spot on a Gen 3 tube.
Life expectancy of a modern Gen 3 tube is 10,000hrs and the harder it works with regulating high light does decrease it's tube life somewhat. The Night Enforcers do an outstanding job regulating the amount of high light coming into the system. Gaining down the unit also works well in these environments.
Speaking of adjustable gain, another neat tip is in those dark arenas when the sparkle effect (scintillation) kicks in, also try turning your gain down to minimize the effect. Works well is these scenarios.
You're on the right track on the SF M1. Great little IR light that's been around for a LONG time. Light weight and the cleanest IR beam I've seen with an effective true range of 70 yards.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boreal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Vic, Thanks for the gracious offer as it's tempting to experience a filmless tube and what it has to offer as it makes sense it would perform better under low light. I'll take your word that it doesnt perform substantially better over a thin filmed. At this point I feel the 5 year warranty of my Pinnacle outweighs the minor performance advantage of a filmless with its meager one year warranty. I guess I didnt expect todays Gen3 to need as much IR. I'll probably order the Surefire Vampire as the new $70 Streamlight TL-2, though nicely made, is a bit hot for its shorter range. It was advertised at a cooler 850nm, but when I opened the package the info stated a range of 780-850nm. Seems too bright for my tube when I tested it. Are Vampires, Luna and the Torch around 800nm?How much tube damage do powerful IR lights do over time or does the pinnacle do a good job at minimizing the damage? </div></div>
Sorry, just saw this as sandwalkr bumped it..
Indeed, a 5 year tube warranty with the ITT Factory Night Enforcers over the slight performance gain with the filmless is a big consideration for many but we offer both for the choice.
You're discovering all Gen 3 NODS at times may need IR assistance in extreme dark areas espcially under tree canopy, into bushes themselves or shadows that are cast at night. Many folks forget about the shadowing effect even at night the best Gen 3 systems cannot see into, where IR illumination is key.
Obviously thermal pays dividends in these environments but do lack the crucial resolution I2 devices provide.
In regards to Da Torch, it works in the 805nm spectrum and unless you have the units trained on something close distance for a long period of time, you have low risk of a burn in spot on a Gen 3 tube.
Life expectancy of a modern Gen 3 tube is 10,000hrs and the harder it works with regulating high light does decrease it's tube life somewhat. The Night Enforcers do an outstanding job regulating the amount of high light coming into the system. Gaining down the unit also works well in these environments.
Speaking of adjustable gain, another neat tip is in those dark arenas when the sparkle effect (scintillation) kicks in, also try turning your gain down to minimize the effect. Works well is these scenarios.
You're on the right track on the SF M1. Great little IR light that's been around for a LONG time. Light weight and the cleanest IR beam I've seen with an effective true range of 70 yards.
