Question about compressed loads w/208 grain bullet

[EMorr]

Hello I’m new to the forum and new to hand loading for rifle cartridges so please be gentle with me. I am working up my first load for a 30-06 using Federal Brass, CCI LRP Primers, Hornady 208 Grain HPBT bullets and H4831 Powder. Based on the Lyman 49th edition manual I loaded to a COAL of 3.290” but after joining this forum and reading the threads on long range hand loading I may adjust that after seeing how close that length places the ogive to the rifling. Upon seating the bullets to the above mentioned length I can hear a small powder crunch, but still hear the powder in the case after seating is complete. Okay good, I know that those loads are not compressing the powder. My question is how will I know when I have officially reached a compressed powder charge, the max charge listed for this powder is 57.5 grains and it is compressed according to the manual. The reason I’m concerned is I’m sure that the powder starts to compress before I reach the max charge of 57.5 Grains and from what I have read, when using a compressed powder charge it is important to recheck the COAL at least once after your initial measurement to make sure that the bullet has stayed in place and has not been pushed further out of the case by the powder.

So my questions are;
#1: Is shaking the completed cartridge and listening for powder rattling around a sufficient way to determine if the powder charge has been compressed or not?

#2: How often should I check the COAL after seating a bullet on top of a compressed powder charge, and are there any solutions if the bullet will not stay at the proper length?

 

[colt933]

Re: Question about compressed loads w/208 grain bullet

If you hear/feel some crunching, you are compressing somewhat. Of course, some of the powder is displaced around the sides of the projectile, so you can still feel/hear some shake.

How are you charging the cases? A drop tube will help the powder settle more densely in the case and thus give you less crunch when seating the bullet over the same load. If you don't have a drop tube, just SLOWLY pouring the kernels through a powder funnel will also let the powder settle more densely and give you less crunch. If you just dump the powder in quickly it will be loose and take up more room in the case.

 

[SPAK]

Re: Question about compressed loads w/208 grain bullet

First, I wouldn't start at 57.5 grains. I'd back off and work your way up. Watch for pressure signs. Every rifle is different and even max loads in the books can be over max in a particular rifle.

Second, powder compression per se isn't necessarily a bad thing. I've had compressed loads with RL22 and H4831sc that were just fine. Having said that, I try not to use compressed powder charges but still get close to as full a case as I can.

Seat your bullets and measure the COAL. Let them sit overnight and if by the morning they are longer then either you have too much powder or not enough neck tension or both.

If you're compressing that much powder, it's likely that your bullet seater will start to deform your bullets too. That's too much powder compression in my opinion.

A little bit of powder crunch when seating your bullets should be just fine as long as you've worked up to that load without any pressure signs.

Seating a 208gr hpbt at 3.290" seems a little deep in the case to me. IIRC that's a pretty long bullet and it's probably taking up some case capacity seated that deeply.

I'd find the distance to your lands first if you can, and seat about .020" off to start as long as it will still fit in your magazine. This might alleviate some of the powder crunching.

 

[EMorr]

Re: Question about compressed loads w/208 grain bullet

Thank you for the replies and advice, for some reason I forgot to mention what I was using as my starting load therefore my op made it sound like I am starting at 57.5 grains. I’m actually starting at 51.0 grains and working my way at 0.5 grains at a time. I will check and perhaps change the COAL based on what my rifle likes, the Lyman manual did not list that exact bullet weight and profile for 30-06 nor does the Hornady manual so I used the powder charge of the next heavier bullet and added a little length to what was recommended for a 200 grain HPBT. So I guess my next question would be does anybody else load the particular bullet and if so what is your COAL?

To answer the other question I am not using a drop tube, simply slowly pouring the powder into the case from the funnel.

 

[SPAK]

Re: Question about compressed loads w/208 grain bullet

Your COAL will vary depending on your rifle and how much freebore it has. In 30-06 with 200gr+ bullets I've seen anywhere from 3.340"-3.410" plus or minus, depending on which exact bullet your using,magazine length, and freebore. Bullet shape will have a lot to with how your OAL will be in relation to the rifling.

You just don't want to be jammed in the lands to start.

You can make your own OAL gauge pretty easily. Take a sized case, and cut down the length of the neck with a dremel tool just to the neck shoulder junction. I do this to make a total of 4 cuts length wise. You should end up with what looks like 4 petals on the case mouth. It should have enough tension now to hold a bullet but allow it to move into the case with some pressure.

Place your bullet a bit long in your modified case and chamber it, close the bolt down. Carefully take out your case and measure the OAL. Do this several times with the same bullet and take the average or the shortest measurement, which ever you feel more comfortable with. That is your distance to the lands, or at least close enough for our purposes.

I would then subract .010"-.020" from that OAL and use that as a starting point for your loads.

Some people advocate starting your loads on the lands. While I see the merit of doing that I just prefer to start .010"-.020" off. Just my preference.