Rifle Scopes Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

[UserM4]

I'm in the market for another 1-4x. I was let down by the build quality of the Leatherwood Hi-Lux 1-4x. The reticle was fantastic but the turrets were horrendous and a lot of other stuff felt cheap.

Anyways, no one locally has any PST models in stock. So before I ordered it, I'd like your opinion on the PST line's build quality compared to your NightForce. I own a NXS 3.5-15x and it's built like a tank and oozes quality. Maybe not S&B quality but good enough for a simple man such as myself.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm not asking if the PST is just as good as NF. I don't expect that from a scope that costs a fraction of the price. Just want to hear your thoughts between the two.

Thank you in advance.

 

[prplhaz72]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

Forget both of them and get the SS 1-4x. It is a better optic than either of them in every way.

 

[fdkay]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

First off, I have never understood the "compare this 700 dollar optic to this 1500 dollar optic, is it just as good?"
type of thread.

No, it isn't as good. That does NOT mean it isn't a very good optic in it's own right.

FWIW, Burris has a neat SFP optic that is usually on sale at midway.

 

[UserM4]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

I wasn't deliberating between getting a PST and a NF. I just wanted to get a sense of the build quality when comparing it to a NF. See, I have nothing to compare it to besides that. And no one here has any in stock for me to fondle. I've been burned before by buying the Leatherwood without much real insight into it's quality or lack of it.

 

[UserM4]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheOneTwo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forget both of them and get the SS 1-4x. It is a better optic than either of them in every way. </div></div>

I'm positive that the SS is a quality scope. But I do not like the reticle. The thick donut is cool but the thick crosshairs, on either models, just cuts into my field of view of the horizon. I just can't get over their choice of reticle design. Why put a thick line covering everything that you're scanning for? It's supposed to be quicker, I understand, but that would bug me to no end.

 

[Truck10]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

First off, Are you looking for Mil or Minute? The SS is only availible in a FFP Mil setup. The Nightforce only offers them in MOA, and i think the PST is offered in both. I am also in the market for a 1-4, but price is deff a consideration, which is why i have been leaning towards the PST.

I have no experience with Vortex. I had a 10x42 SS which was a good scope but just wasn't what i needed so i sold it. I currently have 3 NF scopes that are 3.5-15 and always have always performed flawlessly.

 

[fdkay]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

Check this out:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=994114

Do you have a budget in mind or are you flexible?

 

[powell]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

I know everyone here bashes Burris but I have a 1-4 XTR and have not had a problem with it.

I also have a buddy that just mounted a Burris EuroDiamond 1-4 on a AR and it ran just fine. Only has a 3P#4 with a red dot in the very center but was still ringing steel out to 400 with kentucky windage holds. He moved to the Burris when his Millet eye piece broke off when it fell. It was leaned against the wall and fell on the carpet, what, about 2 feet and it totaly broke the eye piece off.

 

[UserM4]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 10Truck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First off, Are you looking for Mil or Minute? The SS is only availible in a FFP Mil setup. The Nightforce only offers them in MOA, and i think the PST is offered in both. I am also in the market for a 1-4, but price is deff a consideration, which is why i have been leaning towards the PST.

I have no experience with Vortex. I had a 10x42 SS which was a good scope but just wasn't what i needed so i sold it. I currently have 3 NF scopes that are 3.5-15 and always have always performed flawlessly. </div></div>

Definitely looking for MIL/MIL. If I hear a lot of negative reviews, I may wait and save more money for something else.

 

[UserM4]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check this out:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=994114

Do you have a budget in mind or are you flexible? </div></div>

Currently my budget is $500 but if it goes over, say to $1000, I'll save up for it.

I really want to like that as a lot of 3 gun guys supposedly swears by them but I'm looking for a reticle that I can range with if need be. The TAC30, I've studied it, has a relatively sophisticated BDC reticle but not something I can reliably range with. Or atleast to my knowledge. If someone can explain it in detail, I'd really appreciate it.

 

[redirt78]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

I just got the Burris TAC30 1-4 for $300 from midway. Have not mounted it yet but it seems to be well worth the $. It is clear, illumination is good, reticle might be too busy for some but it has dots for 1,2,3,4,500 for 60gr 223(not 100% sure on the weight but thats what I've heard). I only plan to use it out to 200, on a light barreled 16" AR for the most part so the reticle will not bother me.

 

[powell]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

Tac30 Reticle description.

http://burrisoptics.com/ar332.html

 

[UserM4]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: powell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know everyone here bashes Burris but I have a 1-4 XTR and have not had a problem with it.

I also have a buddy that just mounted a Burris EuroDiamond 1-4 on a AR and it ran just fine. Only has a 3P#4 with a red dot in the very center but was still ringing steel out to 400 with kentucky windage holds. He moved to the Burris when his Millet eye piece broke off when it fell. It was leaned against the wall and fell on the carpet, what, about 2 feet and it totaly broke the eye piece off. </div></div>

I didn't know that Burris was bashed on here. What's the deal? Yeah, I'm over Millet scopes when I saw one that couldn't hold zero worth a damn on a .308 R700. I never looked into the Burris XTR. I'll have to check it out. The reticle looks interesting. Is it standard MIL hash? It looks like some sort of BDC.

 

[UserM4]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: powell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tac30 Reticle description.

http://burrisoptics.com/ar332.html </div></div>

Thank you.

 

[powell]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UserM4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I didn't know that Burris was bashed on here. What's the deal? Yeah, I'm over Millet scopes when I saw one that couldn't hold zero worth a damn on a .308 R700. I never looked into the Burris XTR. I'll have to check it out. The reticle looks interesting. Is it standard MIL hash? It looks like some sort of BDC. </div></div>

The XTR reticle is a BDC system that is said to get you out to 1000. Long damn ways with a .223 and a 4x scope but that is what it said. Here you go, take a look.

http://burrisoptics.com/pdf/Ballistic%20556%20Gen2%20&%207.62%20Reticles.pdf

 

[powell]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

I'm not one that sees a need to have a mil/mil, moa/moa set up on something that I am not going to dial dope on. I would rather have the BDC that I know is close and let her eat.

 

[UserM4]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: powell</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UserM4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I didn't know that Burris was bashed on here. What's the deal? Yeah, I'm over Millet scopes when I saw one that couldn't hold zero worth a damn on a .308 R700. I never looked into the Burris XTR. I'll have to check it out. The reticle looks interesting. Is it standard MIL hash? It looks like some sort of BDC. </div></div>

The XTR reticle is a BDC system that is said to get you out to 1000. Long damn ways with a .223 and a 4x scope but that is what it said. Here you go, take a look.

http://burrisoptics.com/pdf/Ballistic%20556%20Gen2%20&%207.62%20Reticles.pdf </div></div>

I'm definitely diggin' the reticle. To me, it seems more useful than the TAC30's reticle. There's MIL hash on the horizontal plane if I need it.

I wish other companies would make BDC stadia lines get gradually smaller but keep the same MIL/MOA corresponding to yardage like ACOG's. Like the Chevron and corresponding stadia lines are the same MOA adjusted for distance. That way you can range estimate your target by "fitting" them to the correctly sized line.

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

No, the Viper PST does not directly compare to a NXS - but it's closer than it has any right to be for 1/3rd the price. I share your observations about the Leatherwood, and trust me - the PST 1-4x does not have the same flaws.

 

[UserM4]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eric Bryant</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, the Viper PST does not directly compare to a NXS - but it's closer than it has any right to be for 1/3rd the price. I share your observations about the Leatherwood, and trust me - the PST 1-4x does not have the same flaws. </div></div>

Thanks. Glad to hear that it's not a trinket cracker jack box toy like my old Leatherwood. Anything you can describe in detail or point out that makes it feel lesser in quality than your NF? Sharp edges, burrs, rubbery turrets, little resistance in the knobs, etc?

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

The PST has crisp turrets (better than, say, Leupold M1s IMO), but they are smaller in diameter than the NXS and indeed have some sharp edges. Minor stuff, really; these are great scopes.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

I have handled them both up close, (1-4's) They look sgreat and feel just as solid as their bigger siblings. I own and use one of the larger PST's, and as you mention, they are not a good direct comparison with NF. But the 1-4 PST is well built and a good solid scope, it gets my vote over the Burris (cant comment on the SS)

 

[prplhaz72]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UserM4</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheOneTwo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forget both of them and get the SS 1-4x. It is a better optic than either of them in every way. </div></div>

I'm positive that the SS is a quality scope. But I do not like the reticle. The thick donut is cool but the thick crosshairs, on either models, just cuts into my field of view of the horizon. I just can't get over their choice of reticle design. Why put a thick line covering everything that you're scanning for? It's supposed to be quicker, I understand, but that would bug me to no end. </div></div>

Hmm, I have both reticle and have used them quite a bit now. The thick line is what makes them quicker. And it is not at all thick in the center, not sure how it is blocking your view of the horizon.

Have you actually used one or just basing this off looking at pictures? I have a few thousand rounds down range with mine now and they are honestly the very best reticle design I have ever used. But to each his own.

 

[Outdoorsman9]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

+1 for the 1-4 PST

 

[quattrodoc]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

Just purchased the PST Mil from Primary Arms (Call up Marshall; great guy) and really like it - I had a Bushy 4200 elite 1.25-4 and thought the glass was a bit better, but didn't have adjustable turrets, etc.... Overall for the price I don't think you can beat it.

 

[UserM4]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheOneTwo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UserM4</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheOneTwo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forget both of them and get the SS 1-4x. It is a better optic than either of them in every way. </div></div>

I'm positive that the SS is a quality scope. But I do not like the reticle. The thick donut is cool but the thick crosshairs, on either models, just cuts into my field of view of the horizon. I just can't get over their choice of reticle design. Why put a thick line covering everything that you're scanning for? It's supposed to be quicker, I understand, but that would bug me to no end. </div></div>

Hmm, I have both reticle and have used them quite a bit now. The thick line is what makes them quicker. And it is not at all thick in the center, not sure how it is blocking your view of the horizon.

Have you actually used one or just basing this off looking at pictures? I have a few thousand rounds down range with mine now and they are honestly the very best reticle design I have ever used. But to each his own. </div></div>

No, I never looked through it. But I've seen plenty of pictures of the actual reticle at 1x and 4x and it's just not for me. I've looked through other scope in the past, before the SS 1-4x existed, that had thick crosshairs and I never liked them. That's why when I purchased my NF, I got the MLR reticle. Like I said, I know SS scope are quality through and through that's why I was so disappointed when they decided to go the way they did with their reticle. I really wanted one when it was a under speculation. I'm just a picky mofo like that. And I understand that most people prefer this reticle as I've visited the SWFA forum and the thread about it's concept. SWFA actually designed it according to the inputs placed by people from that thread as I understood it. That's pretty awesome of SWFA to do that.

 

[UserM4]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

Well, I've done my homework and hopefully it'll be love at first sight. I placed an order for the Vortex from Scott@LibertyOptics. He was very professional and immediately answered all my emails. And I have to say that I was very happy to have placed my order through him. I can't imagine how busy he must be. Never saw the kind of customer service that I received. I'll definitely be sending more business his way. Thank you Scott. Hopefully I'll like the scope as much as your service.

 

[prplhaz72]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

Good deal. I hope it fits your needs/wants just right. Make sure to post some pics, we all love gun porn.

 

[UserM4]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheOneTwo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good deal. I hope it fits your needs/wants just right. Make sure to post some pics, we all love gun porn.

</div></div>

Thx. Will do.

 

[alpha6164]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

I owned the Burris XTR and sold it right here on this forum. The illumination sucks and it would always go out and would end up with a dead battery. I would usually care less about illumination in a long range scope but in a 1-4x setup that is meant to somewhat replace a red dot it, reliability of the reticle and lighting is very important. My best friend also had same issue and sold his as well to a neighbor.

 

[UserM4]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I owned the Burris XTR and sold it right here on this forum. The illumination sucks and it would always go out and would end up with a dead battery. I would usually care less about illumination in a long range scope but in a 1-4x setup that is meant to somewhat replace a red dot it, reliability of the reticle and lighting is very important. My best friend also had same issue and sold his as well to a neighbor. </div></div>

What a shame. The only Burris optic I own is a FastFire and that thing's been extremely reliable with a long battery life. Obviously, two different beasts. I guess I was lucky to stick to my guns and order the Vortex. What did you end up replacing your XTR with?

 

[exhogflyer]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

Here's my opinion after recently getting a PST 1-4.I currently own 4 NF and 1 Burris XTR 1-4.
1) NF...what can I say? To me it's a scope that's on a level where it's difficult to really find anything wrong with it.Reticle choices/turret choices abound and the price is quite reasonable.
2) Burris XTR 1-4....super good glass,forgiving eye position,I like the reticle.I like the capped turrets,because for it's use I won't crank them I'd prefer to use the reticle for holdovers.Lighting not too good, eats up batteries.
3)Vortex Viper PST 1-4....NICE glass,clear and sharp.Solid,crisp turrets,overall feel of this unit is very good.Nice switching on the illum but I haven't owned it long enough to comment on battery life.I'm NOT crazy about the reticle....lines are too thin, hard to read holdovers.Unless it's bright sun you will need to keep illum on.Woods on cloudy day? Never see the reticle unless lit, but you can see the ring as it's thick.Overall I like the scope and will keep it, but I'd give the edge to the Burris.

 

[UserM4]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Exhogflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's my opinion after recently getting a PST 1-4.I currently own 4 NF and 1 Burris XTR 1-4.
1) NF...what can I say? To me it's a scope that's on a level where it's difficult to really find anything wrong with it.Reticle choices/turret choices abound and the price is quite reasonable.
2) Burris XTR 1-4....super good glass,forgiving eye position,I like the reticle.I like the capped turrets,because for it's use I won't crank them I'd prefer to use the reticle for holdovers.Lighting not too good, eats up batteries.
3)Vortex Viper PST 1-4....NICE glass,clear and sharp.Solid,crisp turrets,overall feel of this unit is very good.Nice switching on the illum but I haven't owned it long enough to comment on battery life.I'm NOT crazy about the reticle....lines are too thin, hard to read holdovers.Unless it's bright sun you will need to keep illum on.Woods on cloudy day? Never see the reticle unless lit, but you can see the ring as it's thick.Overall I like the scope and will keep it, but I'd give the edge to the Burris. </div></div>

I appreciate your eval. I know that MIL hashes sized for a 4x optic are very fine in detail. But I've had a 4x optic before and it was a non issue for me once I adjusted the diopter correctly and aligned my eye to minimize parallax. A good cheekweld, especially shooting offhand, was key. Hopefully the reticle isn't a complete let down nevertheless as some people in other reviews said it was hard to see against brush without the illum on. Most scopes that I've seen, the reticle has a negative x-ray effect, don't know what it's called, when the background turns dark.

 

[Scot_E]

Re: Question for anyone that owns both NF and PST.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheOneTwo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forget both of them and get the SS 1-4x. It is a better optic than either of them in every way. </div></div>

+1