Question for switch barrel rifle users

[Beardsli]

For those of you who have a switch barrel rifle system (e.g. AI AT, MRAD): Do you regularly swap barrels out?

If so, do you do a full re-zero (including live fire) or do you just know the amount of change if any and adjust the optic for it?

I have a 24" 6.5CM barrel and a 16.5" .308 barrel I'd like to swap back and forth from but I'm wondering if it's worth doing so regularly.

 

[pfl338]

I have 6 different barrels (calibers) for my AXMC and regularly swap 3-6 of them out during the same range session. I have found when using the Kestrel it is best to go ahead and get a solid 100 yard re-zero after swapping barrels, doing that insures consistent data out to at least mile and it only takes a round or two to re-zero.
If I am staying inside of 800 and and playing around, i will usually just get a quick zero at 300 and take it from there, data does not seem as consistent though, but if your just banging 2MOA plates it works out just fine for me.

 

[st1650]

With my DTA I would swap between 308, 223 and 6.5 in the same session. Originally I was trying to just get the exact offsets of each barrel but since the zero could drift up to 1 moa Id just do a quick 2-3 shoot zero at 100 to confirm and then I’d just adjust the zero offset in the kestrel or Strelok. I wouldn’t re-index the turrets because the Cronus and Razor I was using aren’t tool less so say I’m at 0/0 on my 223 kit and then switch to the 6.5 and now my new zero is -0.5 mil elevation and right 0.3 mil on the windage. I’d just leave it as is and then simply change these offsets in strelok or kestrel and then dial for elevation and just hold for wind.

 

[Beardsli]

Looks like live fire is the way to go then. I wonder if it's worth getting a tool-less rezeroing optic for a switch barrel.

 

[Mr. F]

Live fire re-zero on my AX. Im usually within .3-.4 vertical and very close if no shift at all on the wind.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

I’m able to consistently swap between barrels and my zero is predictable. Only one barrel is “zero’d”

I don’t slip turrets, I just reference my data books. So one barrel will be 0/0 and the next barrel might me U:0.3/R0.6 from the “zero”. I also use this method on non-switch barrels if I’m running a different load for hunting VS target shooting.

If I didn’t have a little notebook for each barrel it would be a complicated mess.

I fucked up initially and set my zero to the wrong barrel. My zero stop wouldn’t let me adjust the next barrel as it was hitting high and I was hitting the stop. The solution was to re-zero on the barrel that had the POI @ 100 the highest. Then every barrel after that, my zero stop isn’t a problem.

Hope it helps.

 

[rustyinbend]

I have a Barrett MRAD, and switch barrels regularly. I get great "return to zero" results primarily because I have a different scope that I use for each barrel (Leupold Mark-5 HD). I use ADM QD scope mounts so swapping scopes is easy. The barrel change / scope change usually results in zero being off by less than .2 Mills, and I'm usually back in the center by the third sight-in round.

 

[rlsmith1]

Only scope I'm aware of with true toolless reset is Tangent Theta. If I'm missing something I'd love to hear though. The new Razor has a single screw and others are pretty simple too. I'm just starting down the switch barrel road and my thought is I will have a driver for the barrel screws so keeping another one handy for scope turrets isn't such a big deal

 

[Hawk in WY]

I switched barrels on more than one rifle for a while and gave up.

There is a reason action wrenches and barrel vices were invented. I like to shoot more than switching barrels and re-zeroing.

I am slowly using up barrels and reverting to dedicated rifles.

I am far from the "man with one gun" but I see the wisdom in that old saying.

 

[spamassassin]

Until I got my Desert Tech I avoided it because it's a PITA. While I "could" have I didn't bother often and mostly just had "extra" barrels I never really used instead of usable "additional" barrels that I would use regularly. With the DT it's definitely going to be different. I changed barrels 9 times last time I went to the range, admittedly mostly to see what POI changes I'd see. When I go target shooting I'll change barrels at least a couple times for sure as I run myself out of either ammo or blast tolerance.

One of the places I hunt at in South Africa is an open farm so game is catch as catch can... you can never tell what'll be up on top of the ridge till you get there. It'll be nice to be able to switch from a .223 to a 308win or a .338wm or whatever since it only takes literally 1 minute and I can switch out from plinking monkeys and jackals to hitting proper medium or big game without having to carry around a whole additional rifle and without having to drive all the way back to the house to switch rifles. For me it's all about being able to pack less stuff.

 

[hlee]

Until I got my Desert Tech I avoided it because it's a PITA. While I "could" have I didn't bother often and mostly just had "extra" barrels I never really used instead of usable "additional" barrels that I would use regularly. With the DT it's definitely going to be different. I changed barrels 9 times last time I went to the range, admittedly mostly to see what POI changes I'd see. When I go target shooting I'll change barrels at least a couple times for sure as I run myself out of either ammo or blast tolerance.

One of the places I hunt at in South Africa is an open farm so game is catch as catch can... you can never tell what'll be up on top of the ridge till you get there. It'll be nice to be able to switch from a .223 to a 308win or a .338wm or whatever since it only takes literally 1 minute and I can switch out from plinking monkeys and jackals to hitting proper medium or big game without having to carry around a whole additional rifle and without having to drive all the way back to the house to switch rifles. For me it's all about being able to pack less stuff.

Isn't this the reason for gun-bearers?

 

[Beardsli]

Oh man, changing entire optics is definitely an interesting method.

It seems like the switch barrel is best to have when actually at the range with you. My scope actually has a little tool in the cap, and I always bring my tools with me so re-zeroing shouldn't be too much of a pain.

It looks like standard procedure is:

1) Switch barrel.
2) Verify zero (should be predictable/recordable).
3) Re-zero or compensate.

I'll be keeping more careful notes at the range.

 

[newguy2k3v2]

I plotted out a page in my data book with a center poa and I plotted where each barrel and load impacts from my desert tech. I have one that is the “master” and is poa, poi in the center. Recently switched back to a razor so it’s easy to write down the turret position on this page as well and I can visually confirm what my scope is zero’d for.

Plotting it out and writing down the position may be overkill but it’s easier to keep track of and not get lost switching from one barrel to another.

 

[rlsmith1]

Seems like there are a couple methods to use a switch barrel rifle.

Dead on accurate - Multiple barrels all expected to be absolutely zeroed after a barrel change (after scope adjustments). These guys are probably better off having multiple rifles and if cost is a limitation, they should have two rifles with one being a performance rifle and one being a "trainer" be it a 223, 308, 300 Win, or something else with ammo that is reasonably priced. Seems like the ideal world for these guys is they can save on new "guns" by only buying another barrel and forget the cost to stock enough ammo for their 15 calibers, BUT at least they own a single rifle.

Accurate enough - A couple barrels are good enough for these guys and each provides a true differentiated capability. They don't mind taking the time to get an absolute zero after switching barrels. This is a more realistic use case and more in line with the military's perspective on the MRAD acquisition. 338 Mag for material targets, 300 Mag for anti personnel and 308 for practice on ranges that don't support the 300 Mag.

Personally, I fall into the second batch and will probably only have 2 or 3 barrels (this simplifies the suppressor side too). I had not thought about the hunting application in Africa but that sounds fantastic too. I'd love a 300 Norma that is a hammer and a 308 barrel so I'm not shooting $5 bills every time I pull the trigger. Maybe a 338 and 6.5 or 6mm will happen but I want to actually shoot this rifle.

@newguy2k3v2 I really like that idea, could you post a pic of it to help visualize? How repeatable do you find the barrel switch to be? Do you land within 0.2-0.5 MIL or how repeatable is your system?

As these systems become more mainstream, I hope more scope manufacturers figure out the legit toolless zero reset. Apart from TT I'm not sure anyone else is doing that?

 

[st1650]

TT, Burris XTR pro, Leica PRS all have forms of tool-less zero.

I'm a retard - not sure why I put the razor gen 3 in there.

 

[rlsmith1]

TT, Razor Gen 3, Leica PRS all have forms of tool-less zero.

Do you have a video or something that shows the Gen 3 toolless zero? Looks like you can only zero out the turrets by loosening the single screw and repositioning the turret. Thanks, I'll have to take a look at the Leica PRS

 

[b6graham]

TT, Razor Gen 3, Leica PRS all have forms of tool-less zero.

razor gen 3 def not tool less

 

[spamassassin]

I plotted out a page in my data book with a center poa and I plotted where each barrel and load impacts from my desert tech. I have one that is the “master” and is poa, poi in the center. Recently switched back to a razor so it’s easy to write down the turret position on this page as well and I can visually confirm what my scope is zero’d for.

Plotting it out and writing down the position may be overkill but it’s easier to keep track of and not get lost switching from one barrel to another.

This is more or less what I've done. So far I only have 3 of the 6 barrels I've ordered but the process is the same. Find the one that prints lowest and zero to that, then use an offset value for each of the others. There's 1 mil of extreme spread between them so far on elevation and a couple clicks of windage variation and 2 of the 3 shoot to exactly the same point of aim.

Isn't this the reason for gun-bearers?

The notion of gun bearers is not consistent with anything I've experienced while hunting in Africa. As far as I can tell that whole thing is a romantically anachronistic notion from the 19th and early 20th century not reflective of the current reality. Part of the reason for this perception of mine could be from the fact that I don't do the highly commercialized "safari" thing. I hunt on the farm that I co-own or on farms that friends of mine own, so I carry my own gun.

 

[hlee]

This is more or less what I've done. So far I only have 3 of the 6 barrels I've ordered but the process is the same. Find the one that prints lowest and zero to that, then use an offset value for each of the others. There's 1 mil of extreme spread between them so far on elevation and a couple clicks of windage variation and 2 of the 3 shoot to exactly the same point of aim.


The notion of gun bearers is not consistent with anything I've experienced while hunting in Africa. As far as I can tell that whole thing is a romantically anachronistic notion from the 19th and early 20th century not reflective of the current reality. Part of the reason for this perception of mine could be from the fact that I don't do the highly commercialized "safari" thing. I hunt on the farm that I co-own or on farms that friends of mine own, so I carry my own gun.

So... No pith helmet?

 

[Cascade Hemi]

I normally switch the barrel and the rest of the entire rifle at the same time.

 

[hlee]

I normally switch the barrel and the rest of the entire rifle at the same time.

More up front investment, but a hell of a lot more convenient.

 

[hlee]

Switch barrel rifles are for the poors that can afford to hire gun bearers or buy more than one high end scope. Fight me.

 

[MakeSawdust]

We swap barrels on actions with a Ross vice all the time. With good notes the zero is usually within .1 mils. The worst I have seen is .3 mils. We always check zero at 100 yards before doing anything serious with the rifle after swapping the barrel. The easiest scope system to use is the Razor. The "internal" turret scale has numbered marks on it and you can record the numbers in a data book for each barrel. It is pretty repeatable and a lot harder to get lost in than zero offsets. Zero offsets work well, but ocassionally you can get confused if you don't keep good enough records.

 

[MakeSawdust]

I agree, switch barrel rifles are for poors, but "I are one." I plan on the need to work until I'm dead, but I don’t want to starve to death in the meantime.

 

[TripleBull]

For those of you who have a switch barrel rifle system (e.g. AI AT, MRAD): Do you regularly swap barrels out?

If so, do you do a full re-zero (including live fire) or do you just know the amount of change if any and adjust the optic for it?

I have a 24" 6.5CM barrel and a 16.5" .308 barrel I'd like to swap back and forth from but I'm wondering if it's worth doing so regularly.

I have one switch barrel rifle, an AX-MC that originated as a 338LM. I then added 2 barrels and another bolt, to add 300PRC and 6.5PRC. 99% of the time, I'm shooting them at a mile or more, and the zero offset for the 338 versus the 300 is down in the wind variation uncertainty at those distances. More adjustment is needed if I swap to the 6.5, but it's a gain twist barrel with fast twist for solids and at ELR, it's generally more flaky, so no big deal.

On one low-wind day, we shot 20 rounds at 1 mile out of the 338, then 20 out of the 300, then 10 out of the 338. No more than .2 mils was needed at the switches, and shot-to shot variation due to wind was about the same or a little more. The wind that day was doing what I call the Staggering Wyoming Cowboy Routine - 10 knots out of the west for 5 seconds, switching to 20 knots out of the east for 10 seconds, then rinse, repeat. Thank God for wind flags and lucky intuition. We had a 1 MOA steel target with a 10' tall by 12' wide backboard behind the steel and could see where our misses were landing.

 

[hlee]

Uh-huh, tell me more

View attachment 7825373

Is that rifle in the background yours as well? If not, the counts stands at 1, so I'm not sure what you are trying to prove other than counting is hard...

 

[PB&J.]

I switch barrels on my DTA all the time. Each barrel has a different point of impact, but the POI of each barrel is perfectly repeatable to within my shooting abilities. I have a page in my notebook with all my different barrel turret offsets for my SDF "zero's".

I have moved toward using Speed Drop Factor on all of my high performance rifles as I find it much more intuitive to dial yardage and apply the correction than it is to dial a traditional elevation. Hell, if you know your targets vital zone diameter and it is within your range window, you don't even need to worry about the correction, just dial the yardage, hold a bit of windage and send it into the vitals.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Uh-huh, tell me more

View attachment 7825373

I remember when I used to have one rifle. It was a long time ago.

 

[spamassassin]

Switch barrel rifles are for the poors that can afford to hire gun bearers or buy more than one high end scope. Fight me.

Clearly you're being sarcastic.

 

[SWgeezer]

Uh-huh, tell me more

View attachment 7825373

Is this actually yours? I almost had an accidental discharge.

 

[hlee]

@hlee where I grew up there was this large family of Lee's that were drug addicts and trailer dwellers. The lived up a long dirt road. Their nasty family were sprinkled up and down the valley. There were vehicles on blocks, trash, old appliances laying around. They were all dirty. One son was mentally handicapped.

Are these your people?

Might be. Might not. You can’t throw a rock in the South without hitting a Lee. Did they all have a bunch of rifles, or just one they bragged about?

 

[hlee]

That's funny. A Lee calling people poor and demanding proof they aren't

Oh, that’s it. I’m not inviting you to our Champagne and caviar tasting...

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Switch barrel addiction. Do I have a problem?

I've been running two TL3's in a deceptively simple and amazingly reliable and consistent, shade-tree switch barrel set up for the last two years. Just wrench flats on the muzzle end of the barrel, torquing the barrels on at 40 ft/lbs using an Auto Zone $30 torque wrench with a 3/4" crowsfoot to...

www.snipershide.com

I'll have the house staff click your link when they're done cleaning my rifles.

 

[waveslayer]

As long as I follow my same torquing procedures with my DT or MRAD I have the same zero for each barrel I switch. Invest in a good torque wrench and stay consistent

 

[hafejd30]

For those of you who have a switch barrel rifle system (e.g. AI AT, MRAD): Do you regularly swap barrels out?

If so, do you do a full re-zero (including live fire) or do you just know the amount of change if any and adjust the optic for it?

I have a 24" 6.5CM barrel and a 16.5" .308 barrel I'd like to swap back and forth from but I'm wondering if it's worth doing so regularly.

Depends I guess what the intended use is. My AXMC will be a long range deer killing machine in 300 PRC. But I have a 6.5 CM setup for it as well. Rifle will be zeroed and setup for the 300 PRC. I’ll shoot the 6.5 set and leave enough adjustment in the zero stop to zero for the 6.5 if it’s lower. Otherwise just record the offset and toss the barrel on for a range session. First target will be the zero test. Pull barrel off afterwards and swap back to the 300

 

[spamassassin]

As long as I follow my same torturing procedures with my DT or MRAD I have the same zero for each barrel I switch. Invest in a good torque wrench and stay consistent

This though I use a torquing procedure as I've not been able to figure out how to torture my DT any harder than @orkan did his and his rifle didn't even have the courtesy to scream.

 

[S3th]

Terminus Zeus.
- 6.5 CM
- 22BR

Zero is for the 6.5CM. Kestrel adjustments on the 22BR so that I use the 6.5CM zero.

 

[SirDrinksAlot]

Regularly switch between .308 and 6.5 in my AI AT. I have a .223 barrel on order and plan on getting a 300 WSM barrel on order as well. When I switch barrels I have a difference in 0.6 mils (vertical) between .308 and 6.5 that has been consistently repeatable.

Hopefully it'll be the same for my .223 and 300WSM barrel, but no issues with frequent changes (change barrels at the range) currently.

 

[waveslayer]

This though I use a torquing procedure as I've not been able to figure out how to torture my DT any harder than @orkan did his and his rifle didn't even have the courtesy to scream.

Ha ha freaking auto correct

 

[Hoser]

All mine return to zero well enough that I created this. With 4 different switch barrel rifles and 3 to 6 barrels for each there's no way I can remember them anymore.

The memory is the next thing to go.

 

[spamassassin]

All mine return to zero well enough that I created this. With 4 different switch barrel rifles and 3 to 6 barrels for each there's no way I can remember them anymore.
View attachment 7826185

Exactly where I was planning on going as soon as the other 3 barrels show up. I especially like the deltas from any zero. That's smart.