Question for the AMP crowd . . .

[CaptArab]

Question for the amp crowd, or any anyone else who anneals every loading-

We go through great process to minimize overworking brass- removing expanders, bushing dies, honing dies out, collet + body die (my current setup), etc

We minimize overworking brass to prevent hardening and extend case life.

If brass is properly annealed after every firing, does is really matter of it's a bit overworked?

Stated differently, could a guy anneal everytime and use a standard off the shelf Forster or Redding FL sizer without detrimental overworking effects?

Wondering if an AMP would negate the need for minimum-brass-working-hoop-jumping (this could help justify a purchase, but I don't need to justify anything).

I have a 550 but still want minimize unnecessary steps as much as possible.

Please refrain from "amp is BS" type answers- I'd like to hear from folks that anneal every firing only, please

 

[rustyinbend]

I use my AMP to anneal after every firing, then use Redding FL Bushing Dies to size. I get great results, and haven't hit any sort of accuracy drop-off after a half-dozen cycles ... which is the most I've fired thus far. Brass still looks, feels, and shoots really well. I intend to keep going until I see some sort of material degradation in velocity or accuracy. I LOVE my AMP !!!

 

[CaptArab]

I use my AMP to anneal after every firing, then use Redding FL Bushing Dies to size. ... I LOVE my AMP !!!

I guess what I'm mainly wondering is would things be much different with the standard non-bushing, since overworking shouldn't be a concern with routine annealing?

Thanks

 

[ACard]

I use my Amp and anneal after every firing as well. I shoot twice a week. 260 Improved. I use Redding Type s comp dies and besides maintaining brass specs like trim length and the like I do nothing special. Currently running two lots of brass one Peterson, and one Hornady. All started with fire forming and am into my 9th cycle on these lots. Only thing I have noticed so far is the Hornady is starting to develop some loose primer pockets.

 

[Dogtown]

Basically in the same boat. Before AMP, I only annealed my big magnums every 3-4 loadings. Now with AMP I anneal everything after each load. Basically I decap, tumble, then anneal everything. I sort case type/stamp into bags and then when I'm ready to do some loading, I pull from a bag of and start the process of brass prep. The most obvious difference its made is my brass lasts quite a bit longer, but it's such a simple and easy step now that it feels silly not to append that annealing step along with decapping and tumbling.

 

[CaptArab]

Great feedback fellas- lemme direct the Convo a bit more specifically-

Does annealing every load negate the need for bushing / honing / collet dies, since annealing should negate case hardening that results from overworking?

 

[Dogtown]

Annealing aside, if you want strict control over your neck dimensions, then you should be using bushings and mandrels. Maybe I'm not fully getting your point?

 

[OREGUN]

Great feedback fellas- lemme direct the Convo a bit more specifically-

Does annealing every load negate the need for bushing / honing / collet dies, since annealing should negate case hardening that results from overworking?

Yes.

You won’t get split necks from work hardening if you anneal every time, like you would if you didn’t anneal at all. So, if you can get the neck tension control you desire with “regular” dies, you could use them without worrying about work hardening.

 

[CaptArab]

Annealing aside, if you want strict control over your neck dimensions, then you should be using bushings and mandrels. Maybe I'm not fully getting your point?

I don't doubt this is true. I'm curious to what extent it matters though- perhaps it isn't enough to make a significant difference if brass is routinely annealed?

Yes.

You won’t get split necks from work hardening if you anneal every time, like you would if you didn’t anneal at all. So, if you can get the neck tension control you desire with “regular” dies, you could use them without worrying about work hardening.

Thanks for confirming my suspicion

 

[CaptArab]

I have found no reason to continue with the NB FL dies...

What's NB? Neck bushing?
Good feedback regardless

 

[Zatchmo]

So I'm not a metallurgist/die maker, but undersizing more than needed would force more brass out the long end. Meaning oal will grow and necks will thin faster. If it's enough to notice degraded case life, I can't say. I do know that annealing every time, and using honed neck dies, oal basically doesn't grow.

 

[ACard]

Yes.

You won’t get split necks from work hardening if you anneal every time, like you would if you didn’t anneal at all. So, if you can get the neck tension control you desire with “regular” dies, you could use them without worrying about work hardening.

This^^^^, I will also add that my sizing operations are much, much more consistent across the board meaning that when I bump the shoulders two thousandths they all bump the same amount, not being a metallurgist I cannot explain why other than I believe it to be related to not being in a work hardened state to begin with so spring back is mitigated. This applies to all my calibers from 300 BO to 6, 6.5, 338 etc...

 

[CaptArab]

Sorry DG here.
Dumb guy

 

[CaptArab]

I run a couple different lots of brass in various platforms with the same chamber.

Getting away from platform specific dies / bushings would be a big win.

 

[Andrew863]

I am doing exactly what you are talking about. I use a off the shelf Redding FL sizing die and a mandrel to set neck tension. The FL die gets me .004 below and the the mandrel expands is to .002 below bullet size for the .002 neck tension i'm after. I never have liked the doughnut that the bushing die leaves so I stopped using them soo after starting to use them. I have considered honing the die out .001 but honestly it not enough to deal with and it with that I know the mandrel is doing its job and keeping the consentric. I have never had split neck issues I always kill the pockets first.

 

[CaptArab]

I am doing exactly what you are talking about. I use a off the shelf Redding FL sizing die and a mandrel to set neck tension. The FL die gets me .004 below and the the mandrel expands is to .002 below bullet size for the .002 neck tension i'm after. I never have liked the doughnut that the bushing die leaves so I stopped using them soo after starting to use them. I have considered honing the die out .001 but honestly it not enough to deal with and it with that I know the mandrel is doing its job and keeping the consentric. I have never had split neck issues I always kill the pockets first.

Huh, that makes me wonder if all Redding FL sizers are around .004

The way some folks talk about "overworking brass", you'd think it would be double that.

.004 really isn't too bad.

 

[spife7980]

Huh, that makes me wonder if all Redding FL sizers are around .004

Nope. Well maybe, it depends on the brass youre using and chambering and how it all plays together. I have some that do .004 and some that do .010 and it seems like the newer chamberings have a better fit off the shelf than something like 308 thats been bastardized for half a century but that the die makers still have to take into consideration.


To address the thread theme, the more you move brass the more you stress it regardless of if its been annealed or not; .010 is twice as much movement as .005. One good practice doesnt eliminate the purpose of other good practices.

 

[Huskydriver]

I full length size Everytime then open up with a mandrel. I get less run out then when I was using bushing dies ymmv.

Both ways delivered great results on target.

 

[SicVic]

I know I've posted this video several times but I feel it pertains to the question so here it is again...
I'll directly answer any questions if need be.

 

[Govt Mule]

I have a 550 but still want minimize unnecessary steps as much as possible.

If you have a 550 that you do all your loading on, the other options for setting neck tension are limited without being a major PITA. I do my 223 rounds for p-dogs and plinking with a gas gun on a 550c, but for accuracy rounds use a single stage press. I anneal with an AMP regardless which gun the brass comes out of.
The annealing process allows the metal to return to it's "elastic" state. You set your die up to minimize the working of the brass and still chamber in your rifle without problems. Only you can decide on the level of accuracy to expect from dies "off the shelf" as opposed to the big $$$ and custom ones.

 

[CaptArab]

If you have a 550 that you do all your loading on, the other options for setting neck tension are limited without being a major PITA. I do my 223 rounds for p-dogs and plinking with a gas gun on a 550c, but for accuracy rounds use a single stage press. I anneal with an AMP regardless which gun the brass comes out of.
The annealing process allows the metal to return to it's "elastic" state. You set your die up to minimize the working of the brass and still chamber in your rifle without problems. Only you can decide on the level of accuracy to expect from dies "off the shelf" as opposed to the big $$$ and custom ones.

That's an amusing blend of false and obvious info

 

[Andrew863]

Huh, that makes me wonder if all Redding FL sizers are around .004

The way some folks talk about "overworking brass", you'd think it would be double that.

.004 really isn't too bad.

No that's what made me stop using the bushing die. That's with my chamber ,die, and brass. I may have just got lucky with my combination. Check your setup and see what u get.

 

[Huskydriver]

If you have a 550 that you do all your loading on, the other options for setting neck tension are limited without being a major PITA. I do my 223 rounds for p-dogs and plinking with a gas gun on a 550c, but for accuracy rounds use a single stage press. I anneal with an AMP regardless which gun the brass comes out of.
The annealing process allows the metal to return to it's "elastic" state. You set your die up to minimize the working of the brass and still chamber in your rifle without problems. Only you can decide on the level of accuracy to expect from dies "off the shelf" as opposed to the big $$$ and custom ones.

Lol wanna research how many top competitors in the rifle world load on a Dillon? David Tubb being one.....

I get the same run out on my 650 as I do on a single stage....the devil is in the details on how you set your press up

 

[Andrew863]

Lol wanna research how many top competitors in the rifle world load on a Dillon? David Tubb being one.....

I get the same run out on my 650 as I do on a single stage....the devil is in the details on how you set your press up

How do u drop powder? Just use the on press drum type powder drop?

 

[CaptArab]

Autotrickler v3 for me

 

[Huskydriver]

How do u drop powder? Just use the on press drum type powder drop?

I use a V3. I do all my prep through on one tool head, then clean, then load everything through on a separate. I can load match ammo stupid fast limited primary by brass cleaning and powder throwing which is a round every 8.5ish seconds

 

[CaptArab]

same.

Lately I've been priming with the cps, just because the Dillon is usually full of pistol primers. The feel is better too, but I wouldn't call the Dillon bad.

 

[Andrew863]

I use a V3. I do all my prep through on one tool head, then clean, then load everything through on a separate. I can load match ammo stupid fast limited primary by brass cleaning and powder throwing which is a round every 8.5ish seconds

I don't load my precision ammo on a progressive but I don't see any issues with it as long as it's not controlling the powder. At that point it's pretty much just seating the bullet.