Question on Actions

[Win223]

Where is the payoff point with a custom action? I’m planning on jumping into a long range rifle, my primary purposes will be to build better marksmanship skills to extend my hunting range, and satisfy the itch to hit far away targets. Not concerned with competition shooting.

I’ve been reading the forum a lot, and there are obviously a lot of high end rigs on custom actions in use by forum members. I’ve been sipping the kool-aid a bit thinking I’d try to jump on a TL3 or Deviant on the PX, but the custom actions seem to hold their value a little too well for my budget.

I’m looking at a budget of around $2700, maybe up to $3K, for a complete rifle with optic and accessories, ready to shoot. Picking up a custom on the PX pushes me to a point where getting good glass becomes difficult. I’m starting to lean back towards a Bergara now, either the HMR or HMR pro. There is an HMR Pro is 6.5CM available locally for $1600, can’t find a regular HMR in 6.5 CM locally right now. For glass I’m thinking Athlon Cronus, so that’s pushing my budget limit, but I can probably do it.

Circling back to the original question, for someone who isn’t competing and running a rifle hard in tough conditions, is a custom action pushing into the territory of diminishing returns? Are there real accuracy benefits from a custom action, or is just the ability to withstand more wear and tear, and a better or smoother “feel” for the operator?

I’m leaving easy barrel swaps and similar qualities found in custom actions out of the discussion, just the operational comparison of the factory vs. custom action is what I’m curious about.

 

[Krob95]

My impact 737r is is infinitely smoother and easier to run that my model 70. So was the bighorn origin I ran a few round through.

Honestly I wouldn’t get a tl3 and would opt for a origin since easy swapping barrels isn’t in the discussion currently. I was very pleased with the origin I shot. Wasn’t an impact but it was still very nice. The several hundred dollars you save will either give you more money for ammo or more towards whatever you need to get started.

I’m not sure that there’s much difference to be had for accuracy between a factory action with an aftermarket barrel vs a custom with an aftermarket barrel, provided the barrel is a high quality blank and the smith is good. It’ll probably come down to you, the ammo, the barrel and chambering job, and a quality chassis/bedded stock.

 

[47guy]

the only problem with settling(at least for me)is that i end up spending twice as much because im not truly happy with it unless its really what i wanted.

 

[Old Dude]

I spent about 3k OTD on my rifle. Rem 700 with a 26 inch factory barrel and brake. 300 WM, 20mil rail, AI chassis, Vortex Viper 6x24, and a Harris Bipod. So far I am shooting slightly smaller than 1 inch at 100 on handloads. I'm sure the rifle is capable of better. I'm just learning how to hand load for real accuracy.

 

[Kadams1563]

For a lower budget build look at getting a Stiller action. Last time I checked Butch’s guns in Woodward Oklahoma was putting out custom builds with a Stiller action for under $2500.

Alamo precision rifles also putting out cheaper customs.

or buy a Tikka Varmit and throw it in your stock of choice.

 

[celltech]

I have Savage, Howa and ARC Nucleus actions. None of them are more accurate than the others, all else being equal. It really is the barrel and the solidity of the mount they are on that makes the difference. Then you get into training and handloading for that last remaining pursuit of perfection.

But the ARCs are just sooo smooth compared to my Savages...they are really nice to use.

I have been playing with the math and you might just be able to squeeze in a full custom for 3K with the Cronus glass (which is really nice by the way). But then you have -0- left over for mags, bags, bipod, scope rings, shooting mat, cleaning crap, blah, blah, blah. And don't forget ammo, you will spend more on it over the years than anything else.

I will guess that most of the people here will tell you to get a Tikka if you have to go cheap(er) and throw it in a chassis. I can't argue with that. You can always get a better prefit barrel for it later on... But if someone gave you a free Savage action to play with you could build something just as accurate.

 

[Mordamer]

If $2,700 is your total budget you need to forget about custom rifles. I would recommend spending at least $1,000 on the optic which it sounds like you are on the right track for that.

Of the factory rifles my favorite is Tikka. A Tikka CTR in 6.5 Creedmoor with a Vortex Razor HD Gen 2 would be right in your budget and I think that would be about as good as it gets.

 

[47guy]

theres a few out there that are close to your budget....

MPA BA PMR Rifle - MasterPiece Arms, Inc.

Masterpiece Arms builds World Class Rifles. We start with our industry leading Chassis System, utilize the Best Actions and Triggers produced, and a 416R SS Handlapped Barrels provide some the best shooting, most accurate rifles in existence. Designed, Built and Enhanced by Long Range Shooters...

masterpiecearms.com

HAVAK Bravo

<p>The HAVAK Bravo is Seekins' go-to, run-it-hard, do-it-all rifle.</p> <p>HAVAK Bravo users run the gamut, from our nation's elite SWAT and law enforcement professionals to competition shooters to hunters to those simply plinking cans

seekinsprecision.com

 

[jcmullis2]

I’ve got several rifles that I’ve had nearly 40 years. My kids are grown and gone so I can finally put my wants first. I look at the cost of guns spread over many years. I do it that way so I won’t go cheap and end up settling for something that I’m not completely happy with. To make a factory Remington or Tikka as nice as a custom will cost nearly the same money. You can definitely have a nice new custom rig with a budget of $3k so don’t cheat yourself out of a it over a few bucks. You’re likely to still be shooting it in 40 years. Just my humble opinion

 

[Rob01]

Bighorn Origin $825
Prefit barrel $500
Timney 510 $110
KRG Bravo Chassis $425
Now you are at $1860 there and also have the ability to swap the bolt head and have a .223 bolt face or short mag cartridge in the same rifle with a barrel swap.

Look in the for sale section with that extra $1140 and you can find a good scope set up.

 

[Mordamer]

I love how everytime someone says they have a budget of X half the people on here recommend X+$1,500.

That's not how a budget works.

 

[Bigfatcock]

FN SPR for $1200-$1600, get your scope, and save for the rest.

 

[Average guy]

In your situation I’d look at a Tikka in a bravo chassis with a Gen 2 Vortex razor or equivalent scope. Tons of gun for the money and good glass.

 

[jcmullis2]

Bighorn Origin $825
Prefit barrel $500
Timney 510 $110
KRG Bravo Chassis $425
Now you are at $1860 there and also have the ability to swap the bolt head and have a .223 bolt face or short mag cartridge in the same rifle with a barrel swap.

Look in the for sale section with that extra $1140 and you can find a good scope set up.

I see Cronus‘s selling for about that on a regular basis on the px.
I hear people say this factory rifle or that factory rifle is as good as a custom but they aren’t. I don’t bother trying to explain why they aren’t because they only say it so they don’t regret buying whatever rifle they have. I know I didn’t fully appreciate the difference until I had my first custom rig.

 

[Gustav7]

Bighorn Origin $825
Prefit barrel $500
Timney 510 $110
KRG Bravo Chassis $425
Now you are at $1860 there and also have the ability to swap the bolt head and have a .223 bolt face or short mag cartridge in the same rifle with a barrel swap.

Look in the for sale section with that extra $1140 and you can find a good scope set up.

+1 on this...

I have a Savage 6.5cm and just got a Kelbly's Atlas Tactical.... are they both accurate? Absolutely. But the Kelbly's is just on a complete other level as far as smoothness, feel, and overall quality...which translates to the rifle I WANT to shoot more.

If I had not found the Kelbly's used for a good price, I would have bought an Origin. You can also find KRG Bravos for sale here on the PX, as well as used Razor Gen 2's, Athlons, etc... The Athlon Cronus has a great reputation so far and can be had for $1000-1200

 

[CK1.0]

Circling back to the original question, for someone who isn’t competing and running a rifle hard in tough conditions, is a custom action pushing into the territory of diminishing returns?

I've been struggling a bit myself with kind of this same thing lately: I've decided I like shooting long range enough that I can throw some money at it if I want to... I can afford to spend whatever I want (within reason), so a $4-5K rifle is on the menu if that's what I decide to do...

But, thing is, my lowly/cheap/starter rifle is shooting .3" at 100 and ~1" or so at 400yrds, and I've rung steel at 1000 (which is as far as I've gotten to go thus far)...

IMHO and from what I've experienced: buy a nicer stick if you want to, but past a certain point money-wise it's totally a diminishing-returns proposition.

I would say that smart-budget-rifle + reloading setup (allowing one to shoot a lot more) beats Gucci-rifle every day of the week.

Pretty much every pro/good shooter out there says the same damn thing: it's the "Indian", not the "arrow", shoot more to get better, there's no "golden gun".

Equipment matters to a degree of course, if budget means "piece of shit" than budget is no bueno. But, if "budget" still means accurate, runs, good trigger... well then, it's just the "Indian" again.

Shit like a "buttery-smooth action" or cool ass fluting/bolt-knob/etc doesn't really matter.. Unless, you just want something nicer, and that's cool too. We could all drive $500 10 year-old shit-boxes to get back and forth, but we don't, because we would just rather have something nicer, that's ok.

I come from a USPSA/IDPA background so I can kind of use that as an analogy: I mostly shoot an Optics Ready CZ Shadow 2 with an Trijicon SRO and all the custom Gucci-ness, trigger as nice as it gets at any price... the top guys in the game would still beat my ass with a Hi-Point.

One can get a Tikka or Howa and with $10 in springs to soup-up their triggers, spank a dude who's got more in his rifle than his truck. Get what you want and spend what you want, but you don't have to go whole-hog and go broke to get a good shooting stick IMO.

 

[Newbie2020]

@Dthomas3523

I’ve been down this same rabbit hole numerous times, but somewhere on the Hide in another thread somebody straightened me out.

The custom action and chassis or stock are not about increasing accuracy/precision; it’s about a smoother action, more standard features, stock adjustability and adaptability to the shooter.

Ask any of these high volume shooters if they regret the $4,000 or 9,000 they’ve got tied up in their rifle——my guess 100% will say no. And they’ll probably give you 20-100 reasons why not, none of which involve inherent accuracy of the rifle platform.

 

[Steel head]

Unless you know what exactly you want/need it hard to get it right the first time.
Build on a Tikka or origin, learn what you like then spend some$$$$

 

[hereinaz]

Unless you know what exactly you want/need it hard to get it right the first time.
Build on a Tikka or origin, learn what you like then spend some$$$$

100%.

And, in the same vein, you can build off a Rem 700 from Northland with a prefit barrel. When you sell it, you won't lose your shirt. Buy stocks and chassis off the PX to see what you like.

Money is better spent on ammo to burn out the first barrel, IMO. The barrel, trigger, and stock matter more than the action, IMO. (Except in matches custom can give a small edge.)

Then, sell that action after you get into comps or shoot with guys when you will have an idea what you want and like.

If you buy used stock or chassis off the PX, and triggers, you can play with what you like.

Then, you can make an informed decision about action features you like and drop it in the Rem 700 compatible stuff you like.

Or, get a Mack Bros action for $575 if you need a "custom".

Yeah, the Tikka, Howa, Ruger Precision, MPA, GAP, ARC, Badrock, etc. are all possibilities too. The PX is filled with that stuff too.

 

[Kadams1563]

Actually go be poor somewhere else. This place isn’t for anyone with a budget.

 

[Steel head]

Actually go be poor somewhere else. This place isn’t for anyone with a budget.

That’s certainly not true.
I was perfectly happy with my savage n cheap scope for about a decade.

It taught me a lot about LR shooting and burned down a few barrels before I built a custom.

At that point I had a pretty good idea of what I liked and built another rifle that I have no regrets about.

 

[Kadams1563]

That’s certainly not true.
I was perfectly happy with my savage n cheap scope for about a decade.

Because clearly you didn’t know any better and if it was a Savage you never shot it to last a decade. Unless you ran it single shot lol

 

[MakeSawdust]

Bighorn Origin $825
Prefit barrel $500
Timney 510 $110
KRG Bravo Chassis $425
Now you are at $1860 there and also have the ability to swap the bolt head and have a .223 bolt face or short mag cartridge in the same rifle with a barrel swap.

Look in the for sale section with that extra $1140 and you can find a good scope set up.

This is the direction I would head after starting out with a factory action and ending up here. I have a savage that I put $1k plus into. It sits in the corner in need of parts that savage wouldn't sell me after 2 seasons of competing. I was constantly trying to solve problems with ejection. I finally had it working well and then the trigger started having problems. A Tikka would be a better route, but also that much closer to a custom in cost with less trigger options.

One other way to save a small amount of money is to use Criterion prefits from NSS on an action that you can use them on. I used a Witt clamp on brake with a savage prefit on my TL3 for a while. It was not as effective as the LB gen 3 that I have now, but it worked fairly well. The prefit barrel was $300 since i didn't have to pay for muzzle threading. The barrels shoot very well. I still run them in 223 as practice barrels. I have been through 7 and all of them have been capable of sub .5 moa with a little load development. A couple would shoot sub .3 moa.

I don't think the HMR pro is a bad gun, but I definitely wouldn't pay $1600 for one with the options available today.

 

[Steel head]

Because clearly you didn’t know any better and if it was a Savage you never shot it to last a decade. Unless you ran it single shot lol

I’m still shooting that savage
Buttercup just keeps on going.
It’s been my trusty 260 throughput it’s life.

 

[King_beardsly]

Bighorn Origin $825
Prefit barrel $500
Timney 510 $110
KRG Bravo Chassis $425
Now you are at $1860 there and also have the ability to swap the bolt head and have a .223 bolt face or short mag cartridge in the same rifle with a barrel swap.

Look in the for sale section with that extra $1140 and you can find a good scope set up.

That’s pretty much exactly what I was going to suggest, it’s really hard to beat the origin in a bravo combo. I’ve got a TL3 in a manners PRS1 all decked out for PRS and I still love getting out behind my origin build for pretty much everything.

 

[Rocketmandb]

I love how everytime someone says they have a budget of X half the people on here recommend X+$1,500.

That's not how a budget works.

In just about any hobby, that's exactly how a budget works

 

[DisplacedTexan]

Just build a Tikka.

Don't touch a Rem700 with Putin's dick.

 

[Win223]

Wow, thanks for all the replies and input. It sounds like the difference between going custom over factory comes down more to enjoyment of operation and pride of ownership than a real difference in performance, at least inexpert hands. And I definitely feel the pull of that a bit. I'm not really one to be constantly buying and selling guns, whatever I buy will probably end up being my primary hunting/range gun for a long time.

Reading back through my first post, I think I made it sound like I didn't care about swapping barrels, but I just didn't want the conversation to sidetrack on that. It is pretty appealing, and would really make this a lifetime rig for me if I could easily change calibers without going to a whole new platform.

I haven't been able to get excited about the Tikka's, my hunting partner has one and I just haven't much enjoyed handling or shooting it. Maybe an aftermarket stock would make all the difference though.

The Origin build Rob01 suggested is appealing for sure. And really does kind of highlight that $1600 is probably a lot to pay for an HMR Pro. The only thing I'm fighting here is really my own impatience, it might make sense to tap the brakes and watch the PX and local shops for a deal, whether that's a used custom someone is looking to sell, or a factory rifle at a discounted price. There isn't much else aside from the HMR Pro available locally right now, so that will help me cool my heels.

I'm actually tempted to drop some money on the optic first, just to make sure I don't cheap myself out on that by spending too much on the rifle. I've got a CZ452 I can mount it on and get familiar with dialing and operational adjustments. The Cronus is appealing, it sounds like a good value without dropping too much money. I've thought about a Leupold Mark5 too, a bit of a step up in price, but its nice and light, and seems to be well liked. The Razor's sound good, but they're awful heavy, and this is a rifle thats going to get packed around a lot.

If only it didn't interrupt my workflow during the day checking the PX over and over for a screaming deal...

Thanks again for all the input!

 

[Dthomas3523]

@Dthomas3523

I’ve been down this same rabbit hole numerous times, but somewhere on the Hide in another thread somebody straightened me out.

The custom action and chassis or stock are not about increasing accuracy/precision; it’s about a smoother action, more standard features, stock adjustability and adaptability to the shooter.

Ask any of these high volume shooters if they regret the $4,000 or 9,000 they’ve got tied up in their rifle——my guess 100% will say no. And they’ll probably give you 20-100 reasons why not, none of which involve inherent accuracy of the rifle platform.

With a $3k total budget, things will be limited.

I like Rob’s suggestion above. And I’d be looking at used razor gen 2 3-18, as that optic sells well under $1500. Something like a tikka in a bravo would also work.

I personally would find a 3-18 gen 2 for the absolute cheapest I could. Then see if the remaining budget allows for an origin setup or a tikka.

Reason being, a gen 2 is about the lowest priced optic I’d want.

 

[DrManhattan5160]

I'd just go with a tikka action with pre fit barrel and chuck it in a stock as others have said. The tikka will not hold you back.

My tikka shoots just as well as my custom but with a custom action it just feels so much more refined. Runs smooth but locks up like a bank vault. They will both go from A to B but a custom will feel like driving a Bentley as apposed to driving a Camry.

 

[Lost_Phil]

Take a look at the series Phillip Velayo just did on a budget Tikka CTR build. He put a Tikka in a KRG X-Ray chassis and used a Nightforce SHV 4-14x50 F1 scope. He did pretty well with it.

Another option, is look at JARD Savage trigger assembly. It has the sear built right into it.

 

[BikePilot]

I think the optic is the weak point generally, the action doesn't matter very much. Good optic, barrel, bipod, and rear bag and you will be in good shape. The best performing shooter at the class I did was running a Remington 700. Everyone else was using AIs. Don't get hung up on the action. With a $3k budget I'd spend $1k on a Tikka, $1500 on a used razor, and $350 on a bravo chassis, and then you have just enough left to scrounge up a bipod and bag.

 

[King_beardsly]

Take a look at the series Phillip Velayo just did on a budget Tikka CTR build. He put a Tikka in a KRG X-Ray chassis and used a Nightforce SHV 4-14x50 F1 scope. He did pretty well with it.

Another option, is look at JARD Savage trigger assembly. It has the sear built right into it.

I’m pretty sure Phil could do good with pretty much anything, but the video series does shine light on that fact you don’t need a super high dollar rig to be competitive.

 

[47guy]

heres another option....

M1500 6.5 CREEDMOOR BARRELED ACTION | Brownells

The Howa 1500 6.5 Creedmoor Barreled Action is a great platform for shooters who want to build their own long range, precision rifle at an affordable price. Starting with a standard-dimension forged steel short action (SA) receiver, Howa adds a ha...

www.brownells.com

 

[Newbie2020]

@Rob01 and @Steel head have beat it into my thick skull: the action doesn’t make the rifle accurate; the barrel does.

My smith measures concentricity runout on every barrel he chambers. He said even some of the name barrels fail the runout test. Don’t skimp on the barrel if you want to build a super accurate rifle.

 

[SporterII]

Have you looked at a Cronus? Been behind a Bravo?
Hunting rifle?
Just listening in here.

 

[hereinaz]

This is the direction I would head after starting out with a factory action and ending up here. I have a savage that I put $1k plus into. It sits in the corner in need of parts that savage wouldn't sell me after 2 seasons of competing. I was constantly trying to solve problems with ejection. I finally had it working well and then the trigger started having problems. A Tikka would be a better route, but also that much closer to a custom in cost with less trigger options.

One other way to save a small amount of money is to use Criterion prefits from NSS on an action that you can use them on. I used a Witt clamp on brake with a savage prefit on my TL3 for a while. It was not as effective as the LB gen 3 that I have now, but it worked fairly well. The prefit barrel was $300 since i didn't have to pay for muzzle threading. The barrels shoot very well. I still run them in 223 as practice barrels. I have been through 7 and all of them have been capable of sub .5 moa with a little load development. A couple would shoot sub .3 moa.

I don't think the HMR pro is a bad gun, but I definitely wouldn't pay $1600 for one with the options available today.

This is why you can go Remage barrel with a Remington action.

Then, all the money spent on Rem 700 compatible stuff can go right on your custom action.

I started with Savage, and kinda went through that when I got my first ARC Nucleus. All I could keep there was my barrels. Sold all the Savage stuff I accumulated.

In the end, my Proof prefit didn't shoot any better on my Savage or Nucleus. The Nuke is just better in operation when the bullet isn't moving down the barrel.

 

[Win223]

SporterII, this is going to be my primary hunting rifle, mostly for caribou, goats, sheep and opportunistic moose. I don't need (or want) a super lightweight rig, I'm fine carrying 10-12lbs, thats what I do now. I have not been able to test out a Cronus or a Bravo, no dealers for either up here that I've been able to locate. The truth is I won't know what I'm missing whatever I decide to go with, I've never run expensive optics or higher end stocks/chassis. My best glass right now is an Athlon Argos on a PCP air rifle, which I do like.


Phil Velayo built on a CTR. Are all of the Tikka actions the same across their line? Is it worth buying the CTR instead of just the cheapest model I can find if I'm going to swap stocks, and maybe change out the barrel, since it sounds like the barrel is where the rubber meets the road? Are the different models just different combinations of barrel lengths/contours, and a sliding gradient of shitty to slightly less shitty stocks? If I can find one cheap enough and immediately change some of the accessories, maybe that would get me past my current dislike of them.

 

[Evlshnngns]

I dont have any tikkas, how is the firing pin fit up? All of my production guns crater primers BAD. That is one perk that pushes me to a custom action. Another perk of a good custom is a pinned recoil lug, barrel swaps are easy. Some come with a 20moa rail, more savings. Having a 700 footprint gives you all the otions for stocks. Don't like it, trade it.

That said, my Savage 12fv does a fine job at banging steel.

 

[Rob01]

Win223 I have been doing this a long time and if I had your budget I would do exactly what I posted above. It gives you so many options in calibers in one platform as well as the ease of swapping out prefit barrels which have NO BARREL NUT. Super easy. Look around and you can find actions in stock. If you get to work you can probably get it put together in a couple months tops. Maybe shorter. Don't give up long run use and performance to have a rifle tomorrow.

 

[Lost_Phil]

Phil Velayo built on a CTR. Are all of the Tikka actions the same across their line? Is it worth buying the CTR instead of just the cheapest model I can find if I'm going to swap stocks, and maybe change out the barrel, since it sounds like the barrel is where the rubber meets the road? Are the different models just different combinations of barrel lengths/contours, and a sliding gradient of shitty to slightly less shitty stocks? If I can find one cheap enough and immediately change some of the accessories, maybe that would get me past my current dislike of them.

Watch his videos on the build, it will give you a few ideals and his total investment was 2600$ (950$ rifle, 450$ stock, 165$ break, 1000$ scope). As for Tikka, only some of the base models are supported, like the T3 models in the aftermarket arena for chassis and pre-fit barrels. So you will have to make shore the model you buy is supported. Also, any factory model you buy, you will eventually want to upgrade the chassis and at some point the barrel once it is warn out.

Which leads to what Rob said earlier in the thread, and just build your own from the ground up on a platform that is well supported in the aftermarket, like the Remingtion 700 series. That is if you want to go down that hole, or you could look at some of the higher up rifle manufactures. Like Masterpiece Arms, Ashbury Precision Ordnance to pick a few. These guys start off with a rile in a chassis and use a Rem 700 based action for under 2K.

 

[DisplacedTexan]

Don't. Build. On. A. 700.

Tikka action and trigger can be had for ~550

As far as I know, all the Tikka actions are T3s

 

[47guy]

Don't. Build. On. A. 700.

Tikka action and trigger can be had for ~550

why?

 

[Lightning8]

How about buying a Tikka T3X varmint in 6.5 Creedmoor. Pay local gunsmith $100 or so to thread. Add trigger spring upgrade. Drop in KRG Bravo. Get the best scope you can afford. Start with a Harris 6-9 bipod and a Gamechanger. Hornady American Gunner 140 BTHPs if you do not reload. Shoot out the barrel and then go to the 6mm of choice at that time.

 

[DisplacedTexan]

why?

Threads are trash, triggers need to immediately be replaced, extractors are trash. Need I go on?

I had my 6.5x47 Tikka on an XLR element for 2k.

 

[MTB doc]

BadRock South Fork rifle or MPA BA competition rifle + Athlon Ares ETR from @gr8fuldoug.

 

[47guy]

Threads are trash, triggers need to immediately be replaced, extractors are trash. Need I go on?

I had my 6.5x47 Tikka on an XLR element for 2k.

the trigger I agree with the rest I’m not sure because I’ve never owned one personally but I know a LOT of ppl that do and I’ve shot most of them and this is not the norm.

I have shot a couple of Tikkas and they are pretty nice but for$2k I’d build off a custom.

 

[DisplacedTexan]

the trigger I agree with the rest I’m not sure because I’ve never owned one personally but I know a LOT of ppl that do and I’ve shot most of them and this is not the norm.

I have shot a couple of Tikkas and they are pretty nice but for$2k I’d build off a custom.

If you want to build on a custom you need to add another 1K.

$550 Tikka action
$750 barrel and chambering
$150 brake
$550 XLR element

That's 2k with a pretty cheap stock.

Also, the extractor and threads being a problem are why you have to have a 700 trued, so it's absolutely common. It's not only common, it's the rule.

 

[47guy]

If you want to build on a custom you need to add another 1K.

ok

 

[DisplacedTexan]

explain which threads are trash?

Action threads.