Rifle Scopes Question on scope: Nikon v. Barska

[evan_h]

Alright guy,

I have been following a lot of posts recently have have help my 'newbie' status out, and have a question...

I am a new shooter and just bought a Remington 700 SPS .308 that I plan on using for Deer and Paper. Now I'm trying to find a 'decent' inexpensive scope. I have found two scopes and was wondering your thoughts on which one would be better. Here are the specs...

Nikon Monarch
3-12x44 Duplex reticle
$275

v.

Barska SWAT Extreme
6-24x60 (I believe the Barska has a Mil-Dot reticle)
$160

I think I like the idea of having the Mil-Dot reticle v. the Duplex reticle, but like I said I'm new to this so my opinion is worthless. Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks for any future help!!

-Evan

 

[hunter223]

Re: Question on scope: Nikon v. Barska

Vortex Viper 6.5-20x50 or x44 over either

 

[signal5]

Re: Question on scope: Nikon v. Barska

definately go with nikon. Barska is junk. If yoy want a mil-dot reticle get the nikon buckmaster mil-dot scope.

http://swfa.com/Nikon-45-14x40-Buckmaster-Riflescope-P42210.aspx

 

[evan_h]

Re: Question on scope: Nikon v. Barska

Thanks for the comments! Is the difference between Mil-Dot and Duplex just preference?

 

[badred6]

Re: Question on scope: Nikon v. Barska

Of the two you listed, I would think that you would be pleased with the Nikon more.

 

[hunter223]

Re: Question on scope: Nikon v. Barska

no, mil dot can be used for range estimation. Call Scott over at www.libertyoptics.com he'll hook you up with a good scope at a killer price. Please don't buy Barfska, they really suck, not worth even the low price tag IMO.

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Question on scope: Nikon v. Barska

Evan,

How about none of the above....

Try this:

Falcon Menace fixed 7.5x50MM

For under $300. you get a Mildot reticle , choice of MOA or Mil adjustments (That's the one you want, but they call it metric adjustments, but it is really 0.1 mils per click, 0.36"), 100 MOA of adjustment and a parallax focus down to 30 feet. So when you want to move up in scope you can put this one on a 22lr.

Here my Falcon 7.5x50mm on a Rem XCR Compact in .223 with Falcon sunshade:

And a fixed 7.5 is not useless for hunting..Better a good fixed power than a cheap variable.

Bob

 

[evan_h]

Re: Question on scope: Nikon v. Barska

Thank you guys for your quick and honest comments. The Barska is out of the picture for sure!

 

[hunter223]

Re: Question on scope: Nikon v. Barska

I'd still go with a Vortex Viper over the Falcon. I think your gonna find the best scope is the Viper

 

[badred6]

Re: Question on scope: Nikon v. Barska

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Evan_H</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The Barska is out of the picture for sure!</div></div>
Nice to see you get the message. Some dont learn, we tell them it is not good, but they dont belive us. They end up wasting their money. And 5 months later you find it in the for sale section.

I agree that the Vortex Viper would be better than the nikon and falcon.

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Question on scope: Nikon v. Barska

hunter223,

Why Viper 6.5-20x44mm over Falcon 7.5x50mm?

Viper MOA adjustments
Falcon Mil adjustments

Viper 68 MOA of adjustment
Falcon 100 MOA of adjustment

Viper Variable
Falcon Fixed

Viper PA side Focus to 50 yds
Falcon PA side focus to 10 yds


Viper $479.00
Falcon $245.00

Nothing wrong with a Viper, but OP is looking at the under $300 range. Why recommend a nearly $500. scope? I don't get it.

Thanks,

Bob

 

[evan_h]

Re: Question on scope: Nikon v. Barska

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: badred6</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Evan_H</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The Barska is out of the picture for sure!</div></div>
Nice to see you get the message. Some dont learn, we tell them it is not good, but they dont belive us. They end up wasting their money. And 5 months later you find it in the for sale section.

I agree that the Vortex Viper would be better than the nikon and falcon.</div></div>

Haha, yes I got the message. I'm only 22 years old, I know NOTHING about the world, let alone rifle scopes. Still undecided, doing my research on all the scopes that have been suggested.

It's good to see there's a great bunch of guys on here willing to help us out with questions...Oh and the GIRLFRIEND thread isn't too bad either haha.

-Evan

 

[hunter223]

Re: Question on scope: Nikon v. Barska

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hunter223,

Why Viper 6.5-20x44mm over Falcon 7.5x50mm?

Viper MOA adjustments
Falcon Mil adjustments

Viper 68 MOA of adjustment
Falcon 100 MOA of adjustment

Viper Variable
Falcon Fixed

Viper PA side Focus to 50 yds
Falcon PA side focus to 10 yds


Viper $479.00
Falcon $245.00

Nothing wrong with a Viper, but OP is looking at the under $300 range. Why recommend a nearly $500. scope? I don't get it.

Thanks,

Bob

</div></div>

I didnt see he was looking to keep it under $300. I recommend the Viper simply because I had one and was very impressed with it. I think he should have enough adjustment if he mounts it on a canted base. Also, I'm not sure he would reap the advantages of a mil/mil system at this point. I'm trying to recommend that would be excellent for a beginner and, they have pretty good resale here on the Hide.

 

[evan_h]

Re: Question on scope: Nikon v. Barska

[/quote]Also, I'm not sure he would reap the advantages of a mil/mil system at this point.[/quote]

Do you mean Mil-Dot reticle when you say 'mil/mil system'?

 

[hunter223]

Re: Question on scope: Nikon v. Barska

mil-dot reticle and the mil adjustments

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Question on scope: Nikon v. Barska

Evan,

By a MIL/MIL system he means Mildot reticle coupled with a scope adjustment system based on Mils. The Vipers are MIL/MOA, meaning they are Mildot reticles with MOA adjustments.

Having owned both, it is substantially harder to learn how to use a Mildot reticle with MOA adjustments because the two systems are not compatable.

For example, if you have a Mil/Mil, and you fire a shot @ 100 yds, and it is 2 mils low or 7.2" (you know that by looking through your scope), and you have a scope with Mil adjustments, you just dial +2 mils on your elevation or 20 1/10 of a Mil clicks.

If you have a Mil/MOA scope, with 1/4 moa clicks and you are 2 mils low (as seen through your scope), you now have to dial 7 MOA plus 1 click (29 clicks or 7.25"). With a mixed system you always have to do a conversion of some sort. With a Mil/Mil system no conversion or calculations are necessary.

If a shooter knows neither system, a MIL/MIL system is easier and faster to learn.

Most of us learned the hard way using mixed MIL/MOA systems, because that's all that was made. But a MIL/MIL system is better for the beginner. Only one system needs to be mastered.

Bob

 

[fredreded]

Re: Question on scope: Nikon v. Barska

Nikon makes a nice optic and as others have noted, you can get the buckmaster series with a mil-dot. You can also get the 4-16 monarch on mil-dot (which is a great scope) but it will run you more than your $300 mark.

I would encourage you to look at the Millett TRS 4-16. You can get it in mil-dot with mil adjustments and it's still just $300. IMO, it's one of if not the best value out there in that price range. Check to out:

http://www.bigrivertactical.com/catalog/item/4193480/4081421.htm

http://swfa.com/Millett-4-16x50-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P42548.aspx

 

[evan_h]

Re: Question on scope: Nikon v. Barska

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Evan,

By a MIL/MIL system he means Mildot reticle coupled with a scope adjustment system based on Mils. The Vipers are MIL/MOA, meaning they are Mildot reticles with MOA adjustments.

Having owned both, it is substantially harder to learn how to use a Mildot reticle with MOA adjustments because the two systems are not compatable.

For example, if you have a Mil/Mil, and you fire a shot @ 100 yds, and it is 2 mils low or 7.2" (you know that by looking through your scope), and you have a scope with Mil adjustments, you just dial +2 mils on your elevation or 20 1/10 of a Mil clicks.

If you have a Mil/MOA scope, with 1/4 moa clicks and you are 2 mils low (as seen through your scope), you now have to dial 7 MOA plus 1 click (29 clicks or 7.25"). With a mixed system you always have to do a conversion of some sort. With a Mil/Mil system no conversion or calculations are necessary.

If a shooter knows neither system, a MIL/MIL system is easier and faster to learn.

Most of us learned the hard way using mixed MIL/MOA systems, because that's all that was made. But a MIL/MIL system is better for the beginner. Only one system needs to be mastered.

Bob





</div></div>


Bob,

Thank you SOOO much for that break down! I was a little lost but think I got the main idea behind what you're talking about. I just need to stick to the forums and learn as much as I can, and play with it on paper to teach myself all about the different adjustments with the scope.

 

[evan_h]

Re: Question on scope: Nikon v. Barska

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fredreded</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nikon makes a nice optic and as others have noted, you can get the buckmaster series with a mil-dot. You can also get the 4-16 monarch on mil-dot (which is a great scope) but it will run you more than your $300 mark.

I would encourage you to look at the Millett TRS 4-16. You can get it in mil-dot with mil adjustments and it's still just $300. IMO, it's one of if not the best value out there in that price range. Check to out:

http://www.bigrivertactical.com/catalog/item/4193480/4081421.htm

http://swfa.com/Millett-4-16x50-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P42548.aspx</div></div>

Thank you for this, I am looking into both those scopes now.

I see you're from NW Kansas, I hear there are some monster bucks out there! Hopefully I can make my way out there someday.

 

[hunter223]

Re: Question on scope: Nikon v. Barska

OR, (you would have to change your budget a little) you could get the Vortex with the mil/mil system

 

[SWFA]

Re: Question on scope: Nikon v. Barska

Evan,

We have a deal on some 6-24x50 Vortex Crossfire scopes with mil-dot reticle for $99.95. They are not on our site yet but will be next week.

 

[Halvis]

Re: Question on scope: Nikon v. Barska

"I plan on using for Deer and Paper."

The Millett TRS-1 4-16 would be a good choice... or if you could almost double your budget... The ss 3-9 variable is getting great reviews.
And you can get it here with rings & other freebies.

http://cgi.ebay.com/SWFA-3-9x42-Variable-Super-Sniper-Tactical-Rifle-Scope_W0QQitemZ310172298421

 

[evan_h]

Re: Question on scope: Nikon v. Barska

Thanks again for all the info guys, I started this topic with a Barska and a Nikon Monarch in mind...and have now looked at about 6 different scopes.

Now that SWFA has given me a heads up about a sale they're getting ready to have, it prompts another question. Vortex Crossfire v. Nikon Buckmaster? The Vortex 6-24x50 is going to be only $100 next week and the Nikon 4.5-14x40 is $300.

Also, the Vortex is labeled as "Vortex 6-24x50 Crossfire 30mm Rifle Scope"...and here's my dumb question of the day... What does the "30mm" mean? I thought that the 50 in "6-24-50" stood for the front lens of the scope being 50mm. Either I'm confused or I'm missing something.

 

[badred6]

Re: Question on scope: Nikon v. Barska

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Evan_H</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What does the "30mm" mean? I thought that the 50 in "6-24-50" stood for the front lens of the scope being 50mm. Either I'm confused or I'm missing something.
</div></div>

It is the size of the tube.
vortex website info on scope