Questions on My 1956 WRA Pre-64 Model 70 30-06

[baker72]

G'day gents, I was checking a few threads on Van Orden M70 rifles.
My girls serial number is 364714 this is not on the list, I have pictures of that list attached.
she looks a lot like the Van Orden Rifles though I reckon she is not . She came to me with the rear Olympic style iron sight and front hooded sight, she is clip slot cut the stock, the trigger is interesting very wide, has the target style stock with the channel on the bottom of the stock, she is chambered in gods round 30-06.
The Unertl scope I added she had the hard mounts ready for this style of scope.

Thanks in advance if anyone has any extra info i was thinking about swapping the stock put to make a sniper clone

 

[baker72]

More pics

 

[baker72]

Last set of pics

 

[camocorvette]

@USMCSGT0331
@pmclaine
@sirhrmechanic
@cplnorton
@RTH1800
@Stevo86

Knowledge will follow.

 

[RTH1800]

Looks like a straight forward 70 target. Very good condition from photos. The “wide trigger” is just an added aftermarket trigger shoe which can be removed via the two set screws in the side of it. It will need to come off to remove rifle from stock anyway.
Underneath the action you will note a barrel date (two digits) Does not always match production date. Some are way off.
If you look at side of trigger it will likely have a capitol T lightly stamped on it near the action.
Nice rifle.

 

[pmclaine]

Unsure if @Pre64 comes around anymore but he might have some info.

Check out https://pre64win.com/

Message the owner of the site and send him pictures.

@cplnorton

Might have info.

 

[baker72]

+

Looks like a straight forward 70 target. Very good condition from photos. The “wide trigger” is just an added aftermarket trigger shoe which can be removed via the two set screws in the side of it. It will need to come off to remove rifle from stock anyway.
Underneath the action you will note a barrel date (two digits) Does not always match production date. Some are way off.
If you look at side of trigger it will likely have a capitol T lightly stamped on it near the action.
Nice

Thanks for all that info especially the trigger info that thing is gone , yep the stock will be going as well i like the look of the regular stock to make a Sniper clone.

 

[baker72]

Unsure if @Pre64 comes around anymore but he might have some info.

Check out https://pre64win.com/

Message the owner of the site and send him pictures.

@cplnorton

Might have info.

Thanks for the info mate. Much appreciated. I will hit up pre64 like you suggested.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I would not change a thing in that… shoot it just as—is!

If anything glass bed stock and free float barrel.

But that is a perfect example of a target and LR rifle from the days just before plastic and weaver mounts took over!

Shoot it! I may surprise you! It will surprise you!

New hardware and it will be just another old action in a newfangled stock. In that configuration, it will be the queen of any range you visit!

Just my two percent of a dollar!

Sirhr

 

[roostercogburn98]

^^^^^ leave it and shoot it


What power is the Unertl

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Oh and I have a nice run of the mill model 70 .30-06 here. I’ll trade you in a second for that rifle.

You can change barrels, throw out the stock. Make it a 6.5. Put it in anything you want. Drill it. Tap it. Cerokote it. No one will care. And you can make an amazing newfangled rifle.

But please don’t chop up that one! Seriously! I would be happy to save that rifle and get you a donor!!!

Cheers. Sirhr

 

[Stevo86]

You’ll be surprised how well that rifle shoots. As suggested I wouldn’t do anything but possibly bed it….after you shoot and see how it does. I have one just like it that will shoot 1/2 moa with a 169smk hand load in its factory configuration. Great looking rifle. Just a side note… the usmc used the target stock on their sniper rifles as well… if my memory serves me correct.

 

[pmclaine]

Send it to pre64 win for bedding. He does beautiful bedding. The pictures on his sight of bedding are of my rifle.

I had my issues getting that built but he stood by his work and made it right.

 

[Mister Ridge]

Is the muzzle supposed to be blued?

 

[baker72]

Oh and I have a nice run of the mill model 70 .30-06 here. I’ll trade you in a second for that rifle.

You can change barrels, throw out the stock. Make it a 6.5. Put it in anything you want. Drill it. Tap it. Cerokote it. No one will care. And you can make an amazing newfangled rifle.

But please don’t chop up that one! Seriously! I would be happy to save that rifle and get you a donor!!!

Cheers. Sirhr

You have inspired me now Im going to put a rail, lasers, lights a m203 yeah yeah mount some comms 6.5 wow great idea maybe. Chop the barrel to 14.5 add a folding stock plus an authentic Israeli bottle opener hell yeah man look at me now . lol nah Im going to swap the stock for another wra stock , just not a fan of this stock i love 3006 o shit i need a can opener as well

 

[baker72]

Is the muzzle supposed to be blued?

No idea you tell me

 

[Mister Ridge]

No idea you tell me

I believe that the muzzle faces of the Winchester Model 52 are left in the white on the heavy barrels. I don't know if that is true of the Model 70.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

You have inspired me now Im going to put a rail, lasers, lights a m203 yeah yeah mount some comms 6.5 wow great idea maybe. Chop the barrel to 14.5 add a folding stock plus an authentic Israeli bottle opener hell yeah man look at me now . lol nah Im going to swap the stock for another wra stock , just not a fan of this stock i love 3006 o shit i need a can opener as well

Ok... fair enough.

But we have had our share of folks who managed to tear up some amazing rifles to make franken rifles! So not picking on you... just trying to help avert disaster!

Love the Unertl, BTW!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[RTH1800]

Removing and storing the original stock, adding a field stock and enjoying it could be considered preserving its integrity.
Far preferable to bedding the original stock.

You could sell it and find a beater to mess with.

It’s yours, do as you choose.

 

[Lange Carabine]

+


Thanks for all that info especially the trigger info that thing is gone , yep the stock will be going as well i like the look of the regular stock to make a Sniper clone.

I went the stock swapping route with mine, in the end I liked the fit and feel of the target stock better so swapped back.
If you go ahead with you're plans hold out for a Monte Carlo Sporter stock.
The one I used was a low comb and it required a bit of turkey necking to get a good view through the scope.

On the odd chance you're unaware, the fat target stocks were used in Vietnam in limited numbers....

 

[sirhrmechanic]

^^^ Is that Captain Land on the Binoculars?

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Lange Carabine]

 

[cplnorton]

^^^ Is that Captain Land on the Binoculars?

Cheers,

Sirhr

This is 3rd Marine Div Sniper School in Vietnam. I don't think he was involved with this school. The officer I see named as in charge of the school at this time was Capt Robert Russell.

My hunch is I think that Marine is actually GySgt George Hurt. He was a distinguished shooter and the senior instructor at the school.

 

[cplnorton]

These Model 70's were extremely popular in the mid 50's as competition rifles for military and civilian shooters alike. Everyone was buying and using them in competition. So unless you ever found the serial number on something official it's really hard to say who had it, whether it was a military or civilian rifle. Though since it's not Property marked it's more likely civilian in this serial range.

The Marine Model 70's are probably the most popular and I've seen quite a few Marine Model 70's now, many are still in Marine inventory at several locations. Most of them there is no possible way to tell there were Marine. Some are US Property marked, most are not. All I have seen in Marine inventory were in the 40,000 to almost 51,000 serial range. The same can be said of the serials Chandler posted in his book. I'm seeing the same ranges.

The Army ones from the 50's are usually in the 300k to early 400k range. Those are US Property marked. I have the docs on the purchase of those and the orders to mark them US Property.

Van Orden sold a lot more Model 70's than the serial lists out there. But I know no way to know one of his rifles unless you find the serial on a document or receipt. Van Orden supplied a lot of parts and rifles to military shooters. A lot were private purchase. Some were actually sold to Army Arsenals.

Unfortunately with the Model 70 usually you just have to find the serial on something to now what they were.

 

[baker72]

Ok... fair enough.

But we have had our share of folks who managed to tear up some amazing rifles to make franken rifles! So not picking on you... just trying to help avert disaster!

Love the Unertl, BTW!

Cheers,

Sirhr

Nah all good mate, i wouldn't do that and I'm taking the piss a bit with me last post to ya , just joking . look i almost sold it a ways back i put a few rifles up and sold some i said to myself what goes goes and what stays will be what i get to keep. i started my own business and need extra cash well the business is surviving so for now i get to keep her and enjoy her. thanks for the advice plus it shows that you do give a shit which i like.

 

[baker72]

I went the stock swapping route with mine, in the end I liked the fit and feel of the target stock better so swapped back.
If you go ahead with you're plans hold out for a Monte Carlo Sporter stock.
The one I used was a low comb and it required a bit of turkey necking to get a good view through the scope.

On the odd chance you're unaware, the fat target stocks were used in Vietnam in limited numbers....

At first i was thinking about selling the stock but i reckon i will store it away you never know i might change my mimd it later on so that way i can always put here back.

Will

 

[pmclaine]

 

[RTH1800]

About bedding. A lot of rifles shoot quite well unbedded.
Personally, I hate to see an otherwise pristine rifle bedded.

 

[Lange Carabine]

 

[Frank Green]

Is the muzzle supposed to be blued?

Offhand yes I think they are all blued. That’s the way they came from the factory. I’ve had a couple and have a take off barrel at home I have pic’s on my work computer of the crown.

Also have pic’s of a real Van Orden rifle that I’ve handled that Mr. Land owns.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[j-huskey]

The muzzles on the 70s were blued.

I have a 56 just like that one, it's pictures are in McLaines 70 post.
I have a 61 that you can't tell the difference btw it and 56. Have a 57 with a new barrel. They were common enough. The .gov target/amu/rifle team units were scribed US Property as in the picture above. it's an extremely rare .gov unit that's not scribed.
Best to yall...

 

[j-huskey]

56 and 55 built for work. I carried both at work at a point in time back there.

More porn...

57 and 61 looks close enough.

RVN Clone

Porn porn porn...

 

[camocorvette]

@Winchester M70 Van Orden

 

[Frank Green]

In the attached pic... the upside down rifle is Hathcocks Model 70 and it has the Unertl scope on it.

The rifle on the top is an original/one of the first Van Orden built rifles. It has a Lyman target scope on it. Notice no checkering on the stock and again these where basically sporter stocks with the barrel channel opened up on them.

I think I have some more pic's on my phone.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

@Winchester M70 Van Orden

"Oh my darling, my darling Cle... "

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Yes...

 

[camocorvette]

I figured you of all people would maybe be able to help this guy out. Gorgeous rifles as always!

"Oh my darling, my darling Cle... "

 

[RTH1800]

Van Orden with pre war shroud?
Evaluators Ltd started after the war iirc. ??????

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

I figured you of all people would maybe be able to help this guy out. Gorgeous rifles as always!

Oh, what a confidence Thanks. I'll try a bit later - I'm in hurry.

Gorgeous rifles as always!: it was a great pleasure for me

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Van Orden with pre war shroud?
Evaluators Ltd started after the war iirc. ??????

Oh, the stroud... I tried to keep this out of this discussion.. Beg my pardon.

The focus should be solely on this particular Rifles.. .

 

[baker72]

^^^^^ leave it and shoot it


What power is the Unertl

12

 

[baker72]

In the attached pic... the upside down rifle is Hathcocks Model 70 and it has the Unertl scope on it.

The rifle on the top is an original/one of the first Van Orden built rifles. It has a Lyman target scope on it. Notice no checkering on the stock and again these where basically sporter stocks with the barrel channel opened up on them.

I think I have some more pic's on my phone.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

Hold on frank Carlos original rifle or a tribute , if legit how did you get that one out of the usmc armory

 

[Frank Green]

Hold on frank Carlos original rifle or a tribute , if legit how did you get that one out of the usmc armory

Nope it’s the rifle and legit. Maj. Land rescued the rifle. From what I understand from the Land’s was when the rifle was decommissioned as I’ll call it… it was taken a part. They could sell the parts back in the day but not the complete rifle. Mr. Land went and got everything and had it reassembled. He knew the significance of the rifle and the history to go with it. So he rescued it.

Again it’s not a tribute gun / clone but it’s the rifle.

The NRA or the USMC museum has asked the Land’s to donate some of the rifles out of their collection but they will not. In their words they are working tools and will not sit behind a piece of glass never to be handled or shot ever again. The collection they have is very impressive. They have every rifle and every optic the USMC snipers have used from WW1 to present day.