Suppressors Quick Temp Check - Need Help on Trust Form 4

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All,

I know the correct answer to this is "talk to lawyer", but any support and sources would greatly help. Here is the situation:

1.) Revocable Living Trust (State of Florida);
2.) From the onset of the creation of the trust:
a.) I am the sole-trustee
b.) My wife is the only beneficiary

Is my wife able to sign (NICS, etc) for a new suppressor transferred to my SOT on a Form 4?

The reason I ask is because I've run into a huge unexpected problem. Its complicated, but as simple as I can put it:

1.) My wife and I are Florida residents (as in we vote in FL, maintain FL drivers licenses, and intend on returning to FL once allowed);
2.) Wife is active duty, currently stationed in Northern Virginia
3.) I vetted this plan through my SOT and Silencer Shop a year ago, and that is:
a.) Bought a suppressor, transferred it into my shop here in VA;
b.) Waiting for approval/tax stamp;
c.) Attempted to accept it today, but the ATF declined it because they dont "view me as a VA resident" (remembering I have a FL Drivers license, no VA ID or license)
4.) However, I believe the law allows active duty service members to execute the transfer given they provide a copy of their orders, CAC Card, confirmation of local VA address, and drivers license.

But given this trust is SUPER old (early 2009), and also that I am not sure if she can accept it on a normal 4473 as a beneficiary, I am fearing the worst, especially given the information from this link:

Gun Trust Guide [2023] Everything You Need to Know about NFA Trusts - RocketFFL

Many people looking to purchase NFA Firearms wonder if they should put the guns into a special kind of trust called an NFA Gun Trust. As you’ll see below, we don’t think using a regular firearms trust is worth it anymore. Sure, there was a time when a gun trust was a smart idea for […]

rocketffl.com

"Examples of who may be considered a responsible person include settlors/ grantors, trustees, partners, members, officers, directors, board members, or owners. An example of who may be excluded from this definition of responsible person is the beneficiary of a trust, if the beneficiary does not have the capability to exercise the powers or authorities enumerated in this section."

EDIT TO ADD: I think the more I search the more it points to my wife is not considered a responsible perosn:

NEW GUN TRUST RULES – 41F
Posted on April 4, 2018 by Dean Phillips
As many of you are aware, there are new procedures for submitting Form 1 and Form 4 applications as of July 15, 2016. Now that the dust settled we can discuss exactly what those new procedures are for our gun trust clients. I cannot speak for trusts drafted by other law firms so this post relates to our gun trusts here at NFALawyers.com.
There is a new term of art called “responsible persons”. This term is how the ATF complicates the process to obtain NFA weapons. Responsible persons must now submit fingerprints and pictures for gun trust applicants. The ATF defines responsible persons as:
[A]ny individual who possesses, directly or indirectly, the power or authority to direct the management and policies of the trust or entity to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of a firearm for, or on behalf of, the trust or legal entity. In the case of a trust, those persons with the power or authority to direct the management and policies of the trust include any person who has the capability to exercise such power and possesses, directly or indirectly, the power or authority under any trust instrument, or under State law, to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of a firearm for, or on behalf of, the trust. Examples of who may be considered a responsible person include settlors/ grantors, trustees, partners, members, officers, directors, board members, or owners. 27 C.F.R. 479.11.

That is quite a lengthy definition. What does it mean? To put it simply, the following are responsible persons in our gun trust:

• Settlor – The person who created the trust
• Trustees – Think of trustees as managers
• Co-Trustees – Think of co-trustees as co-managers

 

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Light at the end of the tunnel. I may have found my answer. Given the Form 4 HAS BEEN APPROVED for this suppressor, I can simply modify my trust to make my wife a "responsible person" either through a grantor or co-trustee. Per the ATF Documentation attached:


QUESTION: Will new responsible persons, added after the making or transfer, be subject to the same requirements?

ANSWER: Once an application has been approved, no documentation is required to be submitted to ATF when a new responsible person is added to a trust or legal entity. However, should a responsible person change after the application has been submitted, but before it is approved, the applicant or transferee must contact the NFA Branch for guidance.

 

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Spoke to FFL over the phone, it looks like they are willing to do the transfer so long as my wife is "on the trust", confirmed she is a co-trustee. Will see where this goes.

 

[cmoore806]

any responsible person on the trust can can add items to the trust.

 

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any responsible person on the trust can can add items to the trust.

For the purposes of a NICS check, does it matter when the trusted person was added to the trust?

 

[cmoore806]

For the purposes of a NICS check, does it matter when the trusted person was added to the trust?

Yes because only a trustee can transfer items into the trust

 

[Enough Said]

SHE SHOULD BE LISTED ON YOUR PAGE 3 OF FORM 4.

 

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SHE SHOULD BE LISTED ON YOUR PAGE 3 OF FORM 4.

Correct, she's listed as a co trustee. Just wondering if the date she was added matters at all for the actual FFL transfer/NICs check.

 

[Enough Said]

YOUR CLASS III DEALER WILL RECEIVE THE ORIGINAL STAMP COPY OF YOUR FORM 4. IF SHE IS LISTED ON PAGE 3, THEN SHE IS ALLOWED TO SIGN FOR THE SUPPRESSOR ON FORM 4473.

MAN, TRUSTS HAVE BECOME CUMBERSOME. I WROTE THREE FORM 4S YESTERDAY FOR TRUSTS AND WENT THROUGH NEARLY A REEM OF PAPER AND BOTTLE OF INK. LOL

ENJOY, BRO.

 

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Got it, thx man. When I submitted the application for the form 4 she was only a beneficiary and successor trustee. Said another way, she did not submit finger prints or pictures etc for this form 4.

After the form 4 was received, she was added as a co-trustee.

How does that land?