Quit reloading altogether?

[OREGUN]

So, I’ve reloaded for precision and for blaster ammo for quite awhile. I’m good at making precise ammo. I have usually had chambers cut by a very detail oriented smith who uses my input and his experience to get me specifically what I want for each barrel. With that said, my shooting has trended away from absolute group-shooting toward field shooting and my personal expectation for that style is that the gun shoots from prone to anything less than 1/2” at 100 yards. Long story short, I’m getting tired of stressing about and spending time measuring brass, worrying about components, finding time to make ammo, getting barrels/smith-work, etc. I’m thinking about going to prefits and factory ammo almost entirely.

With that said, I see a lot of 6CM on the shelf. Any thoughts about what I can expect in terms of precision/consistency from factory 6CM from a prefit from one of the many sources? Other factory available caliber recommendations? It’s been so long since i shot factory ammo that I really have no idea it performs. I’m fine trying some different ammo as available but in my fantasy, I’d be able to grab 5 matching boxes and head to a local match without too much more thought or concern.

For reference, I shoot 6BRA in competition and 6.5CM for practice on an Impact action.

Thanks.

 

[Newbie2020]

I shoot 6cm berger and Hornady and get half moa consistently. I have a blue printed Rem700 and Bartlein barrel.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

A lot of the obsessing we do is based off benchrest loading. My last mentor for Service/High Power Rifle made his ammo on a Dillon 650. I make most of my rifle ammo except bulk 5.56 Wolf Gold for 100 yard reduced target matches (when it was $280 a case). Depending on what I'm shooting it is accurate enough, just over 1 MOA at 100 yards with a sling.

I guess my answer is if you have the time reloading may save money/allow more shooting. If you don't have time and can find affordable factory ammo then enjoy the shooting.

 

[MarshallDodge]

I can make consistent 1/2 MOA ammo on my Dillon 550, and is how I reload all of my 223. If I need to shoot further out, I hand throw the charges.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

but in my fantasy, I’d be able to grab 5 matching boxes and head to a local match without too much more thought or concern.

This is what I do now. But in 6.5CM, switching to 6CM soon, for the exact reasons you state. I do take the Magnetospeed with me and get as much chrono info I can.

Now, I'm not fighting for the top spot. I aspire to be a middle of the pack shooter, so don't take my feedback as to how well factory ammo will shoot. But I'm fairly certain the ammo, not me, is mostly capable of "competing" unless you're given some very small targets. So, kinda match dependent. I don't care, I just want to have fun, and processing ammo gives me anxiety thinking about doing it, and is incredibly tedious to get the results you're after. Not to mention the investment in proper tooling/tools.

 

[AllenOne1]

So, I’ve reloaded for precision and for blaster ammo for quite awhile. I’m good at making precise ammo. I have usually had chambers cut by a very detail oriented smith who uses my input and his experience to get me specifically what I want for each barrel. With that said, my shooting has trended away from absolute group-shooting toward field shooting and my personal expectation for that style is that the gun shoots from prone to anything less than 1/2” at 100 yards. Long story short, I’m getting tired of stressing about and spending time measuring brass, worrying about components, finding time to make ammo, getting barrels/smith-work, etc. I’m thinking about going to prefits and factory ammo almost entirely.

With that said, I see a lot of 6CM on the shelf. Any thoughts about what I can expect in terms of precision/consistency from factory 6CM from a prefit from one of the many sources? Other factory available caliber recommendations? It’s been so long since i shot factory ammo that I really have no idea it performs. I’m fine trying some different ammo as available but in my fantasy, I’d be able to grab 5 matching boxes and head to a local match without too much more thought or concern.

For reference, I shoot 6BRA in competition and 6.5CM for practice on an Impact action.

Thanks.

Well you have a 6.5C why don't you find 5 boxes of ammo and give it a run. If it meets your needs move forward with your plan for a 6CM, if it doesn't what have you lost?

 

[OREGUN]

Well you have a 6.5C why don't you find 5 boxes of ammo and give it a run. If it meets your needs move forward with your plan for a 6CM, if it doesn't what have you lost?

I thought about that but the 6.5 barrel has a super short throat, 2.8” COAL with 140 hybrids, touches the lands. Not sure it will take factory. Could try it I guess.

 

[Sheldon N]

Interesting question: I suppose if I got to the point where I was considering factory ammo I’d probably just load true progressive on a Dillon.

I’ve done 6BRA with XBR 8208 and 105’s on a Dillon 550 and it shoots amazing. I’d take that over 6 creed factory ammo any day for PRS style comps.

 

[gconnoyer]

So, I’ve reloaded for precision and for blaster ammo for quite awhile. I’m good at making precise ammo. I have usually had chambers cut by a very detail oriented smith who uses my input and his experience to get me specifically what I want for each barrel. With that said, my shooting has trended away from absolute group-shooting toward field shooting and my personal expectation for that style is that the gun shoots from prone to anything less than 1/2” at 100 yards. Long story short, I’m getting tired of stressing about and spending time measuring brass, worrying about components, finding time to make ammo, getting barrels/smith-work, etc. I’m thinking about going to prefits and factory ammo almost entirely.

With that said, I see a lot of 6CM on the shelf. Any thoughts about what I can expect in terms of precision/consistency from factory 6CM from a prefit from one of the many sources? Other factory available caliber recommendations? It’s been so long since i shot factory ammo that I really have no idea it performs. I’m fine trying some different ammo as available but in my fantasy, I’d be able to grab 5 matching boxes and head to a local match without too much more thought or concern.

For reference, I shoot 6BRA in competition and 6.5CM for practice on an Impact action.

Thanks.

Keep reloading for the savings, availability, and tunability.
Stop worrying about the little tiny minute things that dont make a difference in a practical (non benchrest) application. Find a load with a good ES, that shoots 1/2" and go shoot it.
If your time isnt worth the savings, buy factory. But being able to reload, like in our current time, is awesome because you can still have ammo while everyone is getting RAPED for pricing or just flat out doesnt have any.

 

[Boatninja]

So, I’ve reloaded for precision and for blaster ammo for quite awhile. I’m good at making precise ammo. I have usually had chambers cut by a very detail oriented smith who uses my input and his experience to get me specifically what I want for each barrel. With that said, my shooting has trended away from absolute group-shooting toward field shooting and my personal expectation for that style is that the gun shoots from prone to anything less than 1/2” at 100 yards. Long story short, I’m getting tired of stressing about and spending time measuring brass, worrying about components, finding time to make ammo, getting barrels/smith-work, etc. I’m thinking about going to prefits and factory ammo almost entirely.

With that said, I see a lot of 6CM on the shelf. Any thoughts about what I can expect in terms of precision/consistency from factory 6CM from a prefit from one of the many sources? Other factory available caliber recommendations? It’s been so long since i shot factory ammo that I really have no idea it performs. I’m fine trying some different ammo as available but in my fantasy, I’d be able to grab 5 matching boxes and head to a local match without too much more thought or concern.

For reference, I shoot 6BRA in competition and 6.5CM for practice on an Impact action.

Thanks.

I have heard several of my friends that are pretty hardcore guys saying very similar things.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

If the thrill is gone, stop doing it.

 

[Precision Underground]

Keep reloading for the savings, availability, and tunability.
Stop worrying about the little tiny minute things that dont make a difference in a practical (non benchrest) application. Find a load with a good ES, that shoots 1/2" and go shoot it.
If your time isnt worth the savings, buy factory. But being able to reload, like in our current time, is awesome because you can still have ammo while everyone is getting RAPED for pricing or just flat out doesnt have any.

This. Stop worrying about .001 trim length and .01 grains and go shoot. If you’re not shooting bench rest just make “good enough” ammo. 1/2 MOA is all I need and it’s pretty easy to do. I would never want to be limited to factory ammo in a climate like this.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

This. Stop worrying about .001 trim length and .01 grains and go shoot. If you’re not shooting bench rest just make “good enough” ammo. 1/2 MOA is all I need and it’s pretty easy to do. I would never want to be limited to factory ammo in a climate like this.

^^^ this

Of course that said worrying about the details and trying to engineer the perfect round to fit the perfect rifle to make the perfect hole is part of what makes this so interesting. I find all that attention to detail relaxing. I find looking for the one factor or one thing that may cause my groups to be bigger or my rifle not to perform to be something that is akin to detective work in engineering.
reloading is not about cheap ammo. Reloading is about taking away another factor that is out of your control in making the perfect shot. Once you start getting into cast bullets or paper patching or some of the really arcane old skills it becomes even more fun.

But that’s not true for everybody. So if reloading is for for you it really isn’t. But if it is for you it has nothing to do with ammo cost.

Cheers Sirhr

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

I'm in no way an expert at reloading.
Some of you guys have probably forgotten more than I have ever learned.
It's the methodical process and tinkering that I enjoy.
An hour or two......or till my Babe appears, and reminds me of a pending appointment or task.
Accuracy is a welcome bonus.... cost is irrelevant, marginally cheaper than cocaine at present.

 

[delinquent pleb]

The brass prep side of things can be a real chore if you don’t need to do it or enjoy it. Since I started shooting less F-class and more PRS/PSR and magazine fed comps I load to a magazine length and tune the powder load and projectiles types. If the target you are aiming for is only an MoA at each range then tune to that.

 

[rockn30809]

I gave it up mostly for the lack of time. I had my only child late in life and enjoy spending the time with her. Sold a few rifles and built a 6.5cm using a TL3 and Proof prefit. My hunting rifle is a factory 700 action/barrel in .30-06. Both of my rifles shoot off the shelf match and upper end hunting ammo very well.

 

[CK1.0]

I can very much see both sides to this:

The other day I figured it out that for me, shooting 6mm creedmoor, and with prices as they are currently, it would be somewhere around $2,160.00 more to just buy 2000rds of factory stuff (enough to toast a barrel) versus what it costs me now (not counting my time and energy).

(That's in a perfect world where tracking down that many rounds to buy at one time isn't as hard as it is in this one of course.)

In a game of $100 bags of sand and where hitting a 2-day match within driving distance can cost damn near $1000 (including match fees, gas, food and hotel), $2160 doesn't sound too bad.

That said, I'd rather shoot better shit and put that $2160 towards the next barrel and next 2000rds...

The old adage "work smarter, not harder" applies here I think: there's a bunch of time consuming stuff that guys still do only because of some "that's the way we've always done it" mentality/reasoning that really doesn't make any meaningful difference down range.

If you really think about your routine, chances are there are probably some unnecessary and time-consuming steps that you don't really need to do that you could eliminate.

For instance (just my opinion here, YMMV on what one deems absolutely necessary),

Gucci reamer/chamber specs:

Knock it off. It's ok to shoot a round that other non-aficionado people shoot too, and that maybe you could just go into some store and buy a box of factory ammo for if you wanted. One can try to come up with the next hot-shit wildcat that's the best round ever created, or a subtle tweak to an old standby that makes a huge difference, but if it requires a chamber that's too tight to work with anything besides special neck-turned brass, or a freebore so short that average SAAMI-length rounds might blow the gun up in somebody's face, it's probably not going to catch on for a while, so there's an automatic "no complaining allowed" policy that comes with that.

Weighing brass and bullets:

I don't think one has to weigh shit anymore unless maybe if they're shooting Benchrest or long-range-belly-Benchrest (F-class) and where nerding out on that stuff is part of the game. It's not the 1950's, bullets and brass aren't being formed manually and tolerances have been shrunk, today most of the stuff is pumped out by a computer controlled machine (probably a relative of the same sort of machine that made your scope rings and parts of your rifle). Just buy decent components like brass and bullets from reputable brands and you don't have to worry any further about it.

Turning necks and uniforming flash-holes/primer pockets:

Same sort of thing, buy decent brass and forget about it. There are guys who will tell you this absolutely matters, and it can get a bit awkward ignoring them when they tell you about it, just smile and be kind, they're old.

Find tools to kill 3 birds with 1 stone (when you can):

I used to decap/deprime (1 step), then resize (2 steps), then run the cases through a mandrel die (3 steps); now, using a Mighty Armory sizing die, 3 steps 1 step.
I currently trim (1 step), then chamfer (2 steps), and deburr (3 steps); I'm calling Mr. Giraud on Monday (3 steps 1 step, in ~16-18 weeks anyways).

Can you switch powder?:

I while back I switched to using StaBall instead of H4350 so I could drop powder straight into cases from a very un-fancy volumetric powder measure. I don't do anything too special and my drops never vary more than +/- .1gr (the vast majority are dead nuts every time). My rounds seem to be every bit as consistent as a buddy's I shoot with who trickles and weighs every single kernel, and another buddy's who has a Prometheus. I don't only do it this way because I'm too cheap to spend $6k on a Promethius (even though I am), I do it because I can do powder for 200 rounds in ~30mins instead of like ~2 hours or how ever long it takes doing it any other way.

These are just some of the things I do to speed up the process, hopefully they maybe make the light bulb go off for you as far as ways to get back some time...


This reminds me: Thus far I've made all of my precision rifle rounds on a single-stage setup even though I already have a Dillon XL750 with case feeder and Mr. Bulletfeeder for pistol stuff (makes about 1000rds of 9mm per hour). I need to start building a couple tool heads and get all the conversion shit together to do the 6CM on the Dillon. I think this is the way for a lot of us moving forward.

Hopefully by this time next year I'll be loading my shit in 2 quick passes: 1 to decap/size/mandrel/trim (on-press trimming), and 1 to prime/drop powder (case-activated on-press)/seat bullets. The only time I'll need to touch the cases is for chamfer/deburring in between passes (unless I can find a find a way to do that on the press too). Or, maybe, screw on-press trimming (seems like a headache anyway) and it can be as easy as:
Pass 1 > Giraud > Pass 2 = done.

Then there's automation...

 

[mbeavers1]

I can very much see both sides to this:

The other day I figured it out that for me, shooting 6mm creedmoor, and with prices as they are currently, it would be somewhere around $2,160.00 more to just buy 2000rds of factory stuff (enough to toast a barrel) versus what it costs me now (not counting my time and energy).

(That's in a perfect world where tracking down that many rounds to buy at one time isn't as hard as it is in this one of course.)

In a game of $100 bags of sand and where hitting a 2-day match within driving distance can cost damn near $1000 (including match fees, gas, food and hotel), $2160 doesn't sound too bad.

That said, I'd rather shoot better shit and put that $2160 towards the next barrel and next 2000rds...

The old adage "work smarter, not harder" applies here I think: there's a bunch of time consuming stuff that guys still do only because of some "that's the way we've always done it" mentality/reasoning that really doesn't make any meaningful difference down range.

If you really think about your routine, chances are there are probably some unnecessary and time-consuming steps that you don't really need to do that you could eliminate.

For instance (just my opinion here, YMMV on what one deems absolutely necessary),

Gucci reamer/chamber specs:

Knock it off. It's ok to shoot a round that other non-aficionado people shoot too, and that maybe you could just go into some store and buy a box of factory ammo for if you wanted. One can try to come up with the next hot-shit wildcat that's the best round ever created, or a subtle tweak to an old standby that makes a huge difference, but if it requires a chamber that's too tight to work with anything besides special neck-turned brass, or a freebore so short that average SAAMI-length rounds might blow the gun up in somebody's face, it's probably not going to catch on for a while, so there's an automatic "no complaining allowed" policy that comes with that.

Weighing brass and bullets:

I don't think one has to weigh shit anymore unless maybe if they're shooting Benchrest or long-range-belly-Benchrest (F-class) and where nerding out on that stuff is part of the game. It's not the 1950's, bullets and brass aren't being formed manually and tolerances have been shrunk, today most of the stuff is pumped out by a computer controlled machine (probably a relative of the same sort of machine that made your scope rings and parts of your rifle). Just buy decent components like brass and bullets from reputable brands and you don't have to worry any further about it.

Turning necks and uniforming flash-holes/primer pockets:

Same sort of thing, buy decent brass and forget about it. There are guys who will tell you this absolutely matters, and it can get a bit awkward ignoring them when they tell you about it, just smile and be kind, they're old.

Find tools to kill 3 birds with 1 stone (when you can):

I used to decap/deprime (1 step), then resize (2 steps), then run the cases through a mandrel die (3 steps); now, using a Mighty Armory sizing die, 3 steps 1 step.
I currently trim (1 step), then chamfer (2 steps), and deburr (3 steps); I'm calling Mr. Giraud on Monday (3 steps 1 step, in ~16-18 weeks anyways).

Can you switch powder?:

I while back I switched to using StaBall instead of H4350 so I could drop powder straight into cases from a very un-fancy volumetric powder measure. I don't do anything too special and my drops never vary more than +/- .1gr (the vast majority are dead nuts every time). My rounds seem to be every bit as consistent as a buddy's I shoot with who trickles and weighs every single kernel, and another buddy's who has a Prometheus. I don't only do it this way because I'm too cheap to spend $6k on a Promethius (even though I am), I do it because I can do powder for 200 rounds in ~30mins instead of like ~2 hours or how ever long it takes doing it any other way.

These are just some of the things I do to speed up the process, hopefully they maybe make the light bulb go off for you as far as ways to get back some time...


This reminds me: Thus far I've made all of my precision rifle rounds on a single-stage setup even though I already have a Dillon XL750 with case feeder and Mr. Bulletfeeder for pistol stuff (makes about 1000rds of 9mm per hour). I need to start building a couple tool heads and get all the conversion shit together to do the 6CM on the Dillon. I think this is the way for a lot of us moving forward.

Hopefully by this time next year I'll be loading my shit in 2 quick passes: 1 to decap/size/mandrel/trim (on-press trimming), and 1 to prime/drop powder (case-activated on-press)/seat bullets. The only time I'll need to touch the cases is for chamfer/deburring in between passes (unless I can find a find a way to do that on the press too). Or, maybe, screw on-press trimming (seems like a headache anyway) and it can be as easy as:
Pass 1 > Giraud > Pass 2 = done.

Then there's automation...

I this. I hate loading. Every pass through I try to find some way to make it take less time.

Like you, I just bought the Mighty Armory 6br die. I pass for it all. I checked neck tension on 100 cases w pin gauges and all were perfect.

Next up is to figure out if I need to anneal every time or can i go to every other or every 3rd....

If that works, Ill prob skip tumbling prior to sizing.

 

[Precision Underground]

I this. I hate loading. Every pass through I try to find some way to make it take less time.

Like you, I just bought the Mighty Armory 6br die. I pass for it all. I checked neck tension on 100 cases w pin gauges and all were perfect.

Next up is to figure out if I need to anneal every time or can i go to every other or every 3rd....

If that works, Ill prob skip tumbling prior to sizing.

You’re on the right track.
For 1/2 MOA ammo you don’t need to anneal every time, you don’t need to tumble before sizing, don’t need to fret over .005 trim length or thousandths of a grain of powder. You don’t need to weigh brass or bullets, uniform primer pocket or flash holes, or any of that tedious shit.

Use good brass, same lot hornady is fine but Lapua is better. Make sure your neck tension is correct and consistent. Make sure your OAL is consistent. Powder charge matters more or less depending on how well your load is developed, how far you’re shooting, and how thick your barrel is, so you’ll have to find out how anal you want to be on that. For most of our rifles staying within .01 gr is good enough. Of course I aim for better than that but I’m not grabbing kernels with tweezers or anything.

If you’re shooting for records in ELR or benchrest go to town and get anal about it. But for typical steel out to 1000 you really don’t need to do that much.

 

[Jmkjr87]

I have 400 pieces of brass for this season. I deprive, wet tumble, anneal, size, dry tumble to remove wax, trim if need be with rcbs 3 way trimmer, tumble again to remove brass chips and polish, and then prime them all. They get put into a bin and when I got a match or have to practice I load what I need and shoot. I use a charge master, it drops a charge I dump it and seat a bullet, by the time I'm done the charge master has another charge ready and I just bang em out. By have alot of brass ready I don't have to mess with the brass prep as much. I do enjoy it but 3 nights a month, couple hours a night I have to prep that brass and im good for the month on prep. I'll shoot 9 seating depth test loads before a match to make sure I'm keeping in my accuracy node and then load em and shoot

 

[Greg Langelius *]

My 'technique' amounts to a hybrid of yours and stark simplicity. There is a basic minimum of steps needed to produce ammunition. I do those steps with careful attention to consistency. I use quality components, and understand that without proper load development, all is for naught.

I jump, not jam; because ogives vary and without a consistently long enough jump, you end up with both. In most instances, I'm loading to a magazine length limit anyway.

I decided some years back that dropping charges is not as consistent as trickling them, then went with the RCBS Chargemaster Lite, which is simply a high capacity trickler with two speeds; fast up front, then slow once the scale says it's close to goal. It's still fast enough that I very seldom need to wait for the charge to finish weighing out. It uses a glass touch screen, which is far superior to the "other' brand's membrane switch keyboard; mine wore out in less than two years. The overcharge percentage is small enough to be negligible. I use the Lyman Powder Pal scale pan, which also incorporates a dump funnel. I know that when I go to a competition, all of my cases hold charges that are within .1gr-.2gr of each other. On the target, such variations are nearly impossible to differentiate from environmental factors.

My handloading mantra is based on speed and simplicity, augmented with due diligence. I've been doing this since the early '90's, tried just about everything, then winnowed it all down to those minimum steps that have proven to me that they are crucial to accuracy.

My only press, since the early 1990's, has been a Dillon RL550b, but I break down the process into two stages; cases, then charges and seating.

I'm trying to demonstrate that handloading doesn't need to be an onerous multi-detailed exercise in nerve wracking perfection. When you buy ammo, you're paying them to do something you can do cheaper and better.

Greg

 

[beetroot]

I'm on the 5th firing of my Lapua 6.5CM brass, never annealed, never trimmed.
Tumble the case in rice to clean them.
Use a single stage Lee press, Redding bushing dies and Charge Master.
Shoots .25-.5moa as far as I've shot for groups.

Using good components and good (enough) equipment you can achieve good results without going over the top.

 

[HorribleAim]

I get consistent .5" to .75" groups shooting 175 FGMM with my 308. Stopped reloading and have been spending the time and money practicing. Being able to judge wind and make good adjustments has had a bigger impact on my ability to hit at 1000+ than obsessing over the details with hand loads.

 

[Superjet]

I’ve had the same thought and concluded that speeding up my loading process helped me keep my sanity and still load excellent/tuneable ammo.

1. Pick cartridge with 30 or 40 deg shoulder (no trimming)
2. Select reamer with a no turn neck
3. Use Lapua brass
4. Deprime, resize, mandrel expand, and prime on progressive press
5. Automate powder dropping (auto trickler or RCBS)
6. Use bullets with consistent BTO (Berger)
7. Seat bullets in a separate press, or 1 station of progressive
8. Surprise yourself at how fast you can load ammo that shoots as good or nearly as good as the stuff that took 3 times as long to load

 

[HorribleAim]

You pick a hell of a time to decide to shoot factory ammo. Assuming you can find ammo, and buy it without getting wallet-raped, you won't get away without constantly checking zero and dope through differing lots.

I reload for tuned ammo to my barrel, savings (within individual lots), and self-reliance through times like this.

Metrics for 100rds of 6GT on an equipped 650XL:

- $55 a hundred
- shoots 1/3 moa at 300yds
- loads in about 30 mins
- whenever I need it bc I've already bought enough primers, bullets, and powder to see me through this ammo crisis

.223 match ammo costs $24 a hundred
.223 blaster costs $17 a hundred

Same problem as buying factory ammo (I'd say it's worse to be honest). No luck finding powder or primers except at ridiculous markup on Gunbroker. For the guys who stocked up years in advance it makes sense, but if you're needing to buy things regularly, very difficult and expensive.

 

[danatkins]

I relead because I can't find the loaded ammo that I want, don't think anyone sells factory loaded atip in 6.5 creedmoor. Also tuning the round to the gun