Suppressors Radical Defense LS3 Ti in the house

[Ape_Factory]

I decided to see what all the hype was with these alleged quick approval times and pick up the Radical Defense LS3 in titanium. My Form 4 was sent in Friday afternoon and I had approval Tuesday morning by 8am. Damn. Now I have the short version of this can in time out, single person trust, which was certified and sent back in March. They tested so well in TBAC's silencer summit I decided to purchase a few.

You can see the specs on their page, www.rdusa.com. The titanium version is essentially 14oz (mine was a bit over) and 7.5" long. The CS version is only 5" in length and I got that one in Haynes 282 which is machine gun rated. I'm expecting it to outperform my Sierra 5 while being shorter with far less gas to the face.

These are considered low back pressure cans so it was surprising how well they did, beating out all the other low back pressure cans as well as standard baffle cans.

It's a HUB mount system and ships with a simple flash hider. I plan on converting it over to the Huxwrx HUB QD mount once more are in stock. I think HUX completely underestimated demand on those. The HUB adapter uses an armorer's wrench for removal. I'd prefer flats but it is what it is. They also use Rocksett so it'll sit in water until I can get my hands on the Huxwrx HUB adapter. If I get really impatient, I'll install their flash hider on one of my rifles.

I unscrewed the flash hider from the suppressor and there was a noticeable amount of dust so I immediately began flushing it with water. Had a bit of debris come out, sand-like particles and a few larger pieces. I may stick it in an ultrasonic with nothing but water to see if I can loosen a bit more residual titanium. I didn't do this with either of my Huxwrx cans but I probably should have. The overall amount wasn't alarming but it's good to be cautious.

Looking through the rear, I see why they're so quiet. It's a hybrid design, additive printed "traditional" baffles along with flow through veins that radiate from the back of the suppressor to the front, bypassing the baffles. They're quite small and exit radially out the front. Kinda cool. The interior finish is rough, assuming this creates more surface area and slows the gasses down.

The can, despite being titanium, feels quite stout. It's longer than the Huxwrx HX-QD 762Ti which is also pictured but about an ounce lighter. I have a Huxwrx Flow 762 which is a good bit shorter and 2oz lighter. The Radical Defense can was far, far superior in both at muzzle and at ear db numbers. Not sure how I'm going to use this one yet, I think it'll be exciting to see how well it does with 300 blackout subs. It tested better than my Diligent Defense Enticer S too so it should perform well on all my hosts. Now if I can just find time to shoot.

The innards photos probably make it look more rough than it is as I took them after flushing with water.

 

[Coffee_and_Pipes]

I’m interested to hear how this one turns out; especially when it comes to gas blowback or any need for tuning the has to the suppressor. Those are the two things that sold me on the OSS, and it’s done well, but it might have some competition.

 

[Ape_Factory]

I'll let you know. I have a Riflespeed gas block on my POF and it's adjusted for the Huxwrx suppressor. Any deviation will likely change the ejection pattern and what setting is needed to lock the bolt back. Really interested to see how it functions on my SBR Sig LT in 300 blackout. I use CFE Black for powder and it's gassy. Using a traditional can (Diligent Defense) indoors is a serious no-go due to the amount of gas in the face after half a magazine.

 

[Ape_Factory]

Curious if any of you have removed the RD's HUB system. I cannot get mine off. Soaked it for days, boiled it, soaked it more, zero luck. I don't have a barrel clamp and strap wrenches don't have enough purchase to keep it from rotating either. I do have a normal vice but I'm afraid to put too much pressure on the outside of the can like that.

RD does use Rocksett as well which IMO, is a mistake. My armorer's wrench admittedly sucks but this sort of "design" doesn't have enough purchase, the tines slip out far too easily as the depth of the actual HUB mount is less than 1/8". Very shallow. Wondering if there's a full circular wrench out there that would allow use of all four slots?

 

[Ape_Factory]

Forgot to mention, I did come across Suppressor Tools and may be ordering one of their TorClamps. https://www.suppressortools.com/pro...llc-4348-ed303394-e9a1-4217-a2b7-8c47a7b17e12

 

[Ape_Factory]

Ok...so amazing customer service. Sent him a message on a Sunday and responded by text. Ordered a custom size which'll be made and sent out tomorrow. In addition to that, he does have a castle nut "socket" that'll work with the rear HUB adapter on RD suppressors.

PPA Pure Performance Armory ASR Castle Cap for Cherry Bomb Socket (Form 1)

Warren Innovative Technologies, LLC PPA Pure Performance Armory ASR Castle Cap for Cherry Bomb Socket (Form 1) for sale from SUPPRESSORTOOLS.COM.

www.suppressortools.com

Also has a tool for Scalarworks mounts called the click/nudge tool which makes tightening/removing those pain in the ass (fingers) tension wheels much easier. Lots of good stuff on his site. No affiliation, just glad he does what he does and the prices are reasonable.

ClickNudge Tool for Scalarworks LEAP Mounts

Warren Innovative Technologies, LLC ClickNudge Tool for Scalarworks LEAP Mounts for sale from SUPPRESSORTOOLS.COM.

www.suppressortools.com

 

[Ape_Factory]

The Suppressortools.com tools came in a day early. The ASR castle cap for cherry bomb socket did not work as the pins weren't spaced out far enough. The clamp did work and it held the suppressor snugly with no rotation. Went back to the standard armorer's wrench with no luck.

Said f*ck it and hit it with some heat from a heat gun and then quenched it in water quickly. Put it back in and with one bow of the dead hammer it finally came off.

I saw no evidence of Rocksett. WTF.

Anyway...was happy to have it off so I could install the Huxwrx HUB mount and actually shoot through it. Unfortunately the Huxwrx has for lack of a better description, a cage which inserts into the back of the suppressor. I'm guessing this is for their Ventum line and really has no function on other suppressors.

Went to insert their HUB mount and there's a lip which prevents it from being inserted. Bang head. Can't make this stuff up. Works on two other suppressors.

If you measure from the back of the last baffle to the back of the suppressor, it's spot-on at 2". The Huxwrx cage is just under 1.5" their and muzzle device does not extend past the cage. So I have more than half an inch of clearance between the front of the muzzle device and the last baffle. I am most likely going to just cut the cage off.

The threaded portion on both the RD and Hux HUB adapters is almost exactly 1cm. The threaded portion on the suppressor body itself is longer than that. So the trueness comes from the back of the suppressor barrel and the face of the mount. It's not resting on that inner lip and relying on it to make sure the suppressor bore is concentric with the rifle bore. So if I cut off the cage and it's not perfectly flat it doesn't look like it'll hurt anything.

Pics.

 

[Ape_Factory]

I'm feeling impatient so I went ahead and cut the cage off. Super easy. Enough clearance that I didn't even need to grind the end perfectly flat. Now just waiting for my neighbor to cough up my .308 alignment rod. Eye sighting it through the bore looked good but it'd be stupid not to check.

 

[Ape_Factory]

Had my first outing with the RD LS3 today. I took along two other suppressors, the Huxwrx Flow 762 and the Dead Air Sierra 5. I brought along four rifles, a 16" 308 gas gun, a 9" 300 blackout gas gun (piston), a 12.5" piston 5.56 and a 16" 5.56 DI with a lightweight titanium BCG and an Unrivaled dead blow competition weight buffer (important info for later).



The short version is the RD has higher back pressure than the Huxwrx but far, far less than the Sierra 5 despite being 2" longer.

From a sound standpoint, the RD was indeed more quiet to my ears than the other two, noticeably more so vs. the Sierra 5 and splitting hairs with the Huxwrx on supers and a good bit quieter with subsonic rounds in 300 blackout.

From a back pressure standpoint, if you put the Huxwrx on the left with a back pressure reading of zero (theoretical) and the Sierra 5 on the right, level 10 back pressure the RD would be about a 3-4 on that scale. I didn't bring along the Enticer S as I had to go back to direct thread and use the Huxwrx HUB mount on the LS3. I'll try to compare those two in the near future.

I had a really strong headwind today, guessing 15-20mph at times, and the RD, on the 308 gas gun, did have more gas to the face than the Huxwrx. I did not notice any difference between the two with 300 blackout or 5.56 and really didn't notice any additional gas with the Sierra 5 but I used a reduced gas setting with it.

POI shifts from removing and re-installing the suppressor were nil, so repeatable, likely down to the design of the Huxwrx muzzle devices and QD HUB mount. I did not test POI shift with and without the can.

Weight wise, I didn't really notice but I ws bench shooting and not running/gunning as I managed to recently blow out BOTH my shoulders. Good times.

All my rifles have adjustable gas blocks and I tested for function on each one, noting ejection pattern and whether or not the bolt locked back. On the 308, I have 12 settings (riflespeed) and the RD called for three to four clicks less gas than the Huxwrx depending on the round being used. I had some rather spicy Remington UMC 150 grain which was relatively cheap for 308 and I needed to break in the new barrel on that gun.



On the 12.5" piston 5.56, I normally run the Sierra 5. It has a five setting gas block and I use the suppressed setting which locks the bolt back on an empty mag with pretty much every round I've put through it. With the RD, I had to go to the unsuppressed "normal" setting. This produced an ejection pattern between 2-3 o'clock with PMC X-Tac which was registering about 2700+ FPS.



On the 300 blackout, it's a two-position gas block on a piston setup. I run the suppressed setting all the time and it cycles everything and locks the bolt back on an empty mag. So no changes with it. With supers, there is a difference between the RD and Huxwrx but it's hard to tell from behind the gun. I give the nod to the RD however. Using ear pro with subs, the Huxwrx is a tad louder/deeper. I did pull my left ear for a shot through each and honestly, the action was far more loud than the report. The ear pro likely filters out the higher frequencies and I'd really need to be a spectator to assess the ultimate difference.

I did test the Diligent Defense Enticer S on the 300 blackout and I thought it too was a hair quieter than the Flow 762 but the amount of gas was staggering and at an indoor range, I couldn't get through more than 20 eye-watering rounds.



On to the 16" 5.56. It's an amazingly soft-shooting rifle, laugh out loud soft-shooting. It too has a 12-position Riflespeed adjustable gas block and with PMC X-Tac at a bit over 3,000fps, the RD was noticeably more quiet than the Sierra 5. I always thought the Sierra 5 sounded pretty good TBH. Gas had to be adjusted down by about 3 clicks for the RD over the Flow (which does really well with 5.56) and add about six clicks more over the Sierra 5. This would yield an ejection pattern as close to 3 o'clock as you can get and locked the bolt back. There was barely enough adjustment to cover shooting with the Sierra 5 vs. the Flow.

With the Flow, there was ever so slightly less felt recoil on the 16" 5.56 over the RD and the Sierra 5. Surprised me actually and I noticed it as soon as I went from the Flow to the RD. But with either, and even the Sierra 5, it really does stay on target like no other rifle I own. You can just sit there and drill shot after shot with no real adjustment to the rifle or body position. But it was notable I could feel the difference between the cans. All my other rifles have full weight reciprocating systems and I didn't notice any difference in felt recoil.



I did lift my head off the stock for a few rounds and that made a difference in picking up which can was loudest. I'd really like to listen as a spectator and stand off to the side while someone else shoots. There weren't many other shooters out there today due to the heat unfortunately.

Overall I think it's a really solid can if you need something quieter than the true flow-through cans like Huxwrx but want something that rivals or even beats traditional cans in the sound department (according to TBAC's silencer summit). There was a group with two other 5.56 rifles that looked like they had 16" barrels, and they seemed fairly loud in comparison. I didn't get a good look at what cans they were running.

I do think, for me personally, it's a bit on the longish end of things and the QD HUB mount doesn't help. On my 9" 300 blackout, you're looking at about 17" of barrel/suppressor. I do have a CS3 in time out and that's a tidy 5" in length.

Mirage wise, the RD seems better than something like the titanium Diligent Defense or the Flow 762. Granted I wasn't using anything longer than 12X but it wasn't horrific and really only noticed it after putting 50+ rounds down the barrel of the 308 gas gun. I know they have some sort of coating that doesn't reflect IR, not sure if that helps in the mirage department or not. I have a Can Chap on order regardless.

 

[mebgardner]

@Ape_Factory , I see a thread from Aug 2021 where you are building AR 300 BLK using Piston kits. Is this AR one of your 300 piston kit builds?

I'm following your stories that speak about flow or low back pressure type cans being used on suppressed 300 Blk. I believe that dynamic (of lbp type cans used on 300 blk) has changed in the last few years. The line used to be that was No Bueno, and one required conventional baffle and their associated back pressure for that system (suppressed 300 blk) to function well and reliably.

The read I'm getting from this thread is that one does not give up as much quiet as we used to with high flow lbp type cans. But, you have a custom 300 blk gun here. It's at least piston, and adjustable gas. For an AR 300 blk, that's pretty rare.

I'm just curious about that build, is all. I'm thinking I would like to follow that work, and learn from you how you got it to work well.

 

[Ape_Factory]

I've built two DI 300 blackout rifles, still have one, an 8" barrel, strictly so I can shoot up all the supersonic ammo I have for it. It's kind of a long story but I could never get the Hornady 190 grain subs to work in either the 8" or the 10.5" so I threw money at it and purchased a Sig LT in 300 blackout (9" barrel). That eats the 190's like they're going out of style. Has a two position gas block and I just run it in the suppressed mode, less gas, 100% of the time with supers or subs, suppressor or not. Zero FTF's to date. But I can't run standard jacketed bullets supersonic in the Sig safely, hence the 8" DI gun for supers.

I've run standard and high flow cans on it, doesn't seem to make any difference.

For me it comes down to the powder being used more than anything else. I use CFE Black or VVN120 for the subs and both have always cycled the action. The sig is piston and obviously a full-weight carrier. The other two used titanium carriers which I'm sure helps in the cycling department. But never really had an issue with any of them cycling subsonic rounds, other than the 190 grain pills, which was a feed issue. But again, they work brilliantly with the Sig.

Ultimately, the RD has more back pressure than the Huxwrx but it's likely a good bit quieter when metered with the appropriate gear and methodology (standardization). What difference you can hear with ear pro or even with no protection, I don't know. I admittedly don't have the best hearing but I can tell a difference when I lift my cheek off the stock. The RD tested really well, especially at the ear, vs. the other traditional baffle cans and much better than the Flow 762 which is shorter, lighter, and doesn't contain anything resembling a traditional baffle. The Flow offers less felt recoil though and that's worth something. No idea on flash suppression, I'll try to shoot the RD indoors and see if I get any sparks. I suspect that'll be the case until I burn off all the residual titanium dust. I did flush out the RD can though.

The DI rifle...8" barrel. This is my "truck" gun which makes my neighbor laugh.


This is the Sig, which is a piston gun. I've had no issues cycling anything with three different high flow cans or with a traditional baffle can.

 

[mebgardner]

On the LS3 purchase, would you do it again, or do you wish you had bought something else?

 

[mebgardner]

I have about 5 anecdotal stories of folk who have attempted to build and run an AR 300 Blk Piston shorty.

I could not get the Adam's Arms kit to stack up tolerances well enough to work, and the return spring made the build very difficult to select a suitable handguard and subsequent barrel nut.

I approached Superlative and was told their kit could be made to work reliably, but to be prepared to make custom parts myself (to cut the piston rod).

There was no enough drive on my part to continue to risk that much work and Dinero for the return value. I gave up.

 

[Ape_Factory]

On the LS3 purchase, would you do it again, or do you wish you had bought something else?

All of my suppressors definitely have a roll and this one is no different. The LS3 will do nicely not only on a shorty 300 blackout but on a RECCE-style and I have two of those; one in 5.56 and one in 308. Once the short version arrives (CS3), if it tests better than the Flow 762, I might have a different answer! But as of right now, it's sitting on the Sig and will likely stay there when not using it on different rifles at the range. I wouldn't necessarily dedicate the RD LS to say an SBR in 5.56, the CS version would fill that roll.

I snagged another Huxwrx HUB mount so I'll be able to test the LS3 vs. the Diligent Defense Enticer S Ti here shortly. But TBAC's data shows it's one decibel better (less) than the Enticer L at the shooter's ear (dBA).

 

[Ape_Factory]

I have about 5 anecdotal stories of folk who have attempted to build and run an AR 300 Blk Piston shorty.

I could not get the Adam's Arms kit to stack up tolerances well enough to work, and the return spring made the build very difficult to select a suitable handguard and subsequent barrel nut.

I approached Superlative and was told their kit could be made to work reliably, but to be prepared to make custom parts myself (to cut the piston rod).

There was no enough drive on my part to continue to risk that much work and Dinero for the return value. I gave up.

I'm glad I didn't go down that rabbit hole and used the Sniper's Hide methodology of throwing money at it (this is the way). It was more the amount of the Hornady subsonic bullets I had that kept me from ultimately going that route. I knew they wouldn't feed so I gave up on the DI guns. Unfortunately, at the time of purchase (Sig), I didn't think or note the barrel twist and the fact I can't safely run jacketed bullets.

 

[Ape_Factory]

Took the RD, Diligent Defense Enticer S and Flow 762 to the range yesterday and tested on 308 DI rifle, and two 300 blackout rifles, one DI one piston.

The only time I could tell a difference was with the 300 Blackout 8" DI rifle with supers (it won't feed the subsonic rounds). With the Enticer on there, I turned the gas way down and the DB's dropped noticeably. I did not test function in terms of locking the bolt back or ejection as I was catching the brass. But it was discernible and not splitting hairs even with ear pro. I did not notice as much of a change with the RD or the Flow but it was there as well. Cycled with all of them, 110 grain V-max as well as 125 grain Speers over H110.

Testing with subs on the 9" piston rifle, the RD was as quiet as the Enticer, no question. I'd say the Flow wasn't far behind but what you mostly hear is the action of the rifle cycling. That only has two settings so no turning the gas way down.

I didn't notice much recoil difference, if any, between them on the 308 but it was stinkin' hot out there yesterday and some guy with a 10.5" AR15 and a muzzle brake showed up and sat next to me so I left rather quickly after that as the concussive blast could be felt 10 feet away in my teeth. Just fucking rude.

 

[Ape_Factory]

My CS3 was just approved, should have it in about a week or so. It should do better than the Sierra 5 and still come in shorter in overall length. This one is in Haynes so it'll withstand hard use.

 

[Asiparks]

Thanks for the thorough and informative write up.
I was looking at getting the Flow or ODB for my POF Revolution- as both were out of stock, I ended up getting a PWS BDE 762 during Silencer Shops free tax stamp offer, ( and a BDE 9 as it happens..)
Still, always have more rifles to suppress and the RD sounds quite interesting....

 

[Ape_Factory]

Free tax stamps are always a bonus. Can't wait to hear what you think about the PWS. I like modular cans and own two.

 

[Ape_Factory]

My Radical Defense CS3 arrived yesterday. She's a chunky monkey, bout five inches long with a width of 1.74". It's tapered at the muzzle end unlike the LS3. Same everything else, this one is in Haynes 282 (nickel based alloy with lots of cobalt) so it's hard use mag dump capable and shouldn't suffer erosion like a Ti can.

Weight came in at 18oz. with their mounting device.

Here's a comparison, left to right, Sierra5, Flow 762Ti, CS3 and RD LS3 Ti. I have a QD mount on the Sierra and LS3 so I lined them up by the base of the suppressor to highlight the different lengths. The Sierra and CS3 are equal in length but the CS3 has a larger diameter. Assuming the CS5 (5.56) is the same length and width, it'd be a good alternative, with far lower back pressure, than the Sierra5, while being substantially quieter. I always felt the Flow 762 was fairly compact but the CS3 makes it look long and cumbersome.

I had a chance, as a spectator, to listen to both the Flow 762 and Sierra5, Flow on my 12.5" and the Sierra on a 16", and the Flow was notably better in the sound department. Huxwrx has the new Flow 556 Ti which is longer than the stainless version. Will be interesting to see how the new, longer 5.56 compares to the 762.

Anxious to see how this'll do on the 300 blackout with subs. The Ti version of the CS3 is quite light and it's heat-related performance parameters would be well within the acceptable range with subs.

Having the same damn issues getting the original mount off on this one so I have a suppressortools.com suppressor clamp on the way. Note to manufacturers...a simple six-sided wrench flat rear mount is far, far easier than something using castle nut dimensions. Better purchase, easier to get on and off. Don't overthink it.

 

[Dave]

My Radical Defense CS3 arrived yesterday. She's a chunky monkey, bout five inches long with a width of 1.74". It's tapered at the muzzle end unlike the LS3. Same everything else, this one is in Haynes 282 (nickel based alloy with lots of cobalt) so it's hard use mag dump capable and shouldn't suffer erosion like a Ti can.

Weight came in at 18oz. with their mounting device.

Here's a comparison, left to right, Sierra5, Flow 762Ti, CS3 and RD LS3 Ti. I have a QD mount on the Sierra and LS3 so I lined them up by the base of the suppressor to highlight the different lengths. The Sierra and CS3 are equal in length but the CS3 has a larger diameter. Assuming the CS5 (5.56) is the same length and width, it'd be a good alternative, with far lower back pressure, than the Sierra5, while being substantially quieter. I always felt the Flow 762 was fairly compact but the CS3 makes it look long and cumbersome.

View attachment 8467484

I had a chance, as a spectator, to listen to both the Flow 762 and Sierra5, Flow on my 12.5" and the Sierra on a 16", and the Flow was notably better in the sound department. Huxwrx has the new Flow 556 Ti which is longer than the stainless version. Will be interesting to see how the new, longer 5.56 compares to the 762.

Anxious to see how this'll do on the 300 blackout with subs. The Ti version of the CS3 is quite light and it's heat-related performance parameters would be well within the acceptable range with subs.

Having the same damn issues getting the original mount off on this one so I have a suppressortools.com suppressor clamp on the way. Note to manufacturers...a simple six-sided wrench flat rear mount is far, far easier than something using castle nut dimensions. Better purchase, easier to get on and off. Don't overthink it.

View attachment 8467485

Would you please measure the OD with calipers? On the Radical website, they list the LS5 at 1.75" but the LS3 at 1.6".....it doesn't make sense the 556 can would be larger in diameter than the 308 can.

 

[Ape_Factory]

LS3 came in at 1.59.
Cs3 came in at 1.74.

Corrected.

 

[Dave]

LS3 came in at 1.59.
Cs3 came in at 1.40.

Weird. I wonder why the listed diameter of the CS3 is so far off?? It's listed at 1.78 on their website!

 

[Ape_Factory]

I'm sorry that was a complete typo. It was 1.74"

 

[Dave]

I'm sorry that was a complete typo. It was 1.74"

Oh, OK, I was like that's crazy it's the same diameter as a 9mm pistol can! Still weird that the long version is narrower than the shorty.