Range Finder & Binoculars

[C130]

I’m new to long range shooting and wanting to buy a rangefinder. Also considering binoculars with a built in rangefinder. Is it better to have a separate rangefinder and binoculars or are the combined units just as good? Looking at either a Leica or Sig as far as rangefinders go unless there are better suggestions.

 

[KnowNothing256]

Depends on what your priorities are. Binos with LRF are faster, particularly with situations where target acquisition is difficult. For instance, a 4-target stage at an NRL Hunter match, if you're scanning with binos then have to switch to a monocular LRF to get each range, that will cost you a lot of time and odds that you get an incorrect range or lose the target when switching are pretty high over the course of 2 days.

Conversely, it's cheaper to separate them typically. You can also often get better ballistic solutions out of a dedicated LRF (easier to specify various parameters in the solver), but this isn't uniformly true; some binos (such as the Sig 10k's) are pretty dang dialed on the ballistic side.

What's your use case? How willing are you to spend an extra 20-30 seconds switching between two pieces of gear and managing both? You can certainly save money by going that route.

 

[C130]

While I don’t do it yet, I’d like to eventually shoot some PRS matches. For now, just spotting and one of the ranges has targets at unknown distances that change monthly I think.

 

[mr_fullmetal]

After shooting my first couple field matches this year I have a huge appreciation for binos with built in LRF. I currently use a TerrapinX LRF and Swaro SLC binos and for me the speed to keep eyes on target and instantly range the target without taking eyes off away is really making me reconsider my gear.

 

[KnowNothing256]

While I don’t do it yet, I’d like to eventually shoot some PRS matches. For now, just spotting and one of the ranges has targets at unknown distances that change monthly I think.

If it’s just PRS, I’d recommend 15x binos, mid-tier glass, with a mil reticle. You can honestly skip the LRF for matches, people in your squad can confirm ranges for you.

If you’re flying solo at your range with the UKD (unknown distance) targets, then a separate PLRF will do you just fine.

ETA: Sorry, forgot you were looking at alpha glass. You can get that if you want, not sure if any have a reticle in them though. It’s sure nice to look through top glass, I have Leica and am not interested in downgrading.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

It really just depends on what your use is and budget. Personally I like having all the options. I have binos, bino LRF, and mono LRF units.

If you’re doing a lot of spotting on steel there’s not a bino LRF out there that I’d really want. The two very good options are the Leica geovid pro and the EL Range TA 10x and they stop at 10x. 10x with top tier glass can be usable for most spotting but 12-15x is more ideal. So for long range target shooting I like higher mag binos with amazing glass and a separate LRF be it monoor 8-10 power bino LRF and I generally prefer a mono since it takes up less room in a bag.

For general hunting use a 10x LRF bino is excellent and I see why they’re so popular for NRL Hunter too. So if you’re hunting or shooting those matches it would make more sense to go that route.

If you go with LRF binos I would just spend the money and buy the Leicas or Swaros. I preferred the Leicas for the better software (IMO) that uses applied ballistics and gives wind drift too which the Swarovski doesn’t sound you still need separate data for that if you want to use the ballistic feature.

 

[Crews]

It’s nice to observe and range at the same time. I will say that there’s definitely units with a LRF that won’t disappoint you but an image quality that will. A good image is the priority for me, in that regard I never liked the Sig stuff. Leica has good LRF function AND good glass.

 

[C130]

Thanks, I do have a Kestrel 5700 Elite with applied ballistics so I’m not sure I need the ballistics feature. But, I think I’ve seen where some rangefinders will send the data to the Kestrel? But, I think I’d rather have better glass than the built in ballistics feature but I’m open to suggestions since I’m new and pretty clueless.

I almost bought a Leica rangefinder Saturday, walked out and then decided I warted them but their doors lock automatically when they close at 6pm so figured I’d do a little more research. I tried a pair of Leica binoculars also and really liked them. One pair was the “pro” that had a ballistics calculator and a cheaper pair (non pro) that didn’t.

 

[mr_fullmetal]

@Lowlight just did a podcast with Big Jim Fish talking Sig and Leica products and some LRF

 

[C130]

Thanks, I’ll check that out.

 

[Lowlight]

 

[Milf Dots]

Frank, in this podcast you mentioned having a bigger Vectronix LRF- a gen3- is that a PLRF25 model, or a Terrapin X? Thnx

 

[Lowlight]

25c,

I was trying not to flex with a $10k rangefinder.

But I do use the Terrapin X a ton, more than any other in my stable, the 25c is just an insane unit that is above and beyond

 

[Milf Dots]

It seems to consistently come back to the Vectronix Terrapin X and the Sig Kilo 10 LRF ABS when wanting the best unit for under $3,000.

The frequent gripe on the Sig Kilo 10 seems to be the mediocre glass.

 

[GBMaryland]

The glass is not horrible on the Sig10K.... it's just not CRAZY clean compared to some.

The Vectronix X has a VERY small eyepiece and doesn't do as good a job under 2000 yards as Sig10k does. (I had the Vectronix Terrapin and the Terrapin X, and the eyepiece on the X makes things a bit more challenging.)

The power on the 10K is significantly better than the X (owing to having a new laser that is better than the X's), but comes at the price of a larger unit.

I wouldn't worry about the glass, as it's a trade-off: You get a bigger platform that's easier to see from with the 10K and it's larger objective lenses, but at the expense of a slightly larger unit. On the flip side, you can easily put a Terrapin X in your pocket; well, you can in a larger pocket.

The 10k can reliably outrange the Terrapin X all day long, and it will still talk to your Kestrel - or even replace it altogether. It also works with the Garmin watches... (To be clear: The Terrapin X also works with the Garmins and the Kertrel...)

 

[Lowlight]

We have the 10k Sigs here and they are nice,

The blue is easy to dismiss at first glance but I found your eyes get used to it fast and it's meant to make targets pop... The laser is good too, I have not found it to be lacking in typical Sig fashion

But I do feel the Revic is better than say the Vortex, I have not spent enough time look at the Sig and Revic side by side yet but we can for sure, I can do a follow up

 

[GBMaryland]

Woot! That'd be cool to see Frank! I'd love to get a firsthand comparison. (I haven't opted to plunk down $2k on the Revic to check it out... need to save the $$$ for the yearly Frank and Mark/c show...! )

 

[Milf Dots]

We have the 10k Sigs here and they are nice,

The blue is easy to dismiss at first glance but I found your eyes get used to it fast and it's meant to make targets pop... The laser is good too, I have not found it to be lacking in typical Sig fashion

But I do feel the Revic is better than say the Vortex, I have not spent enough time look at the Sig and Revic side by side yet but we can for sure, I can do a follow up

We'd love a dedicated test and report on the "Terrapin X versus the Sig Kilo 10"- from guys who use handheld 905nm LRFs at least twice a week for multiple ranging sessions in PRS, ELR, and XLR/ULR type settings.

Ranging anything bigger than a target used in the previously mentioned settings doesn't tell me anything useful- for instance, ranging a mountain, etc, seems silly.

Regular field use- that isn't just done for reviews- almost always results in good data.

 

[GBMaryland]

Just to get this in here:

The Remarkably Thorough Sig Kilo 10K-ABS HD Rangefinding Binoculars Review

BigJimFish reviews the Sig Kilo 10k ABS HD laser rangefinding binoculars with AB elite

www.snipershide.com

 

[Birddog6424]

Steiner makes an alpha glass optic with an LRF and Mil reticle. They are called the M1050r LRF.

They have the same light transmission as the Swaro EL series. They are definitely a very crisp optic. The Steiners are porro prisms, so better light transmission and clarity than most optics, as well as larger FOV.

 

[Milf Dots]

Steiner makes an alpha glass optic with an LRF and Mil reticle. They are called the M1050r LRF.

They have the same light transmission as the Swaro EL series. They are definitely a very crisp optic.

Is that a FFP reticle? What's the average street price? thnx

 

[Birddog6424]

Is that a FFP reticle? What's the average street price? thnx

It's a fixed magnification of 10x, so nothing about the reticle changes. I'm not certain from a technical aspect as to where the reticle lens fits into the optical array. And these are a fixed focus. You adjust each eyepiece to focus on a 50 yard target, and they are focused to infinity. And yes, it works. It's wonderful to not be fiddling with a focus knob all day.

I think these are probably in the $4k range in pricing. I actually got the 2nd pair that they brought into the US last year (a high mucky muck at Burris/Steiner snatched up the first pair). So its relatively new here in the US. These come from Steiner in Germany, but I know they are bringing them in regularly now. It's a very feature rich optic.

 

[Jabberjaw]

I’ve owned multiple pairs, versions, renditions of all of the big names and the Sigs. Without a doubt, the best rangefinding unit is in the Zeiss. That goes for their previous version and the newest version. Optically the Swaros and Leicas might be a bit better, but they’re all good. I just bought a pair of the Sigs to play around with, and they are great at their price point.

 

[mr_fullmetal]

If Leica makes a Geovid Pro lrf in 10x56 I’d. it those today

 

[Lowlight]

I have Zeiss which are awesome but they are not the best. Most of the hunting ones don’t range as far but have great glass.

Also the 1550nm Steiners are insanely awesome, the military 8x30x they are great, I almost bought em instead of the 25c they are that good.

The gold standard is Vectronix any way you slice it.

 

[koshkin]

It's a fixed magnification of 10x, so nothing about the reticle changes. I'm not certain from a technical aspect as to where the reticle lens fits into the optical array. And these are a fixed focus. You adjust each eyepiece to focus on a 50 yard target, and they are focused to infinity. And yes, it works. It's wonderful to not be fiddling with a focus knob all day.

I think these are probably in the $4k range in pricing. I actually got the 2nd pair that they brought into the US last year (a high mucky muck at Burris/Steiner snatched up the first pair). So its relatively new here in the US. These come from Steiner in Germany, but I know they are bringing them in regularly now. It's a very feature rich optic.

I've spent a lot of time with that 10x50 LRF. It is the only LRF binocular I know of that has a reticle as well. It is almost the holy grail, except the LRF does not have an angle indicator. That was a deal breaker for me. If it had an angle indicator, I would have bought it from Steiner.
The LRF is not as good as the 1535nm in the 8x30, but good enough for my purposes.

 

[Birddog6424]

I've spent a lot of time with that 10x50 LRF. It is the only LRF binocular I know of that has a reticle as well. It is almost the holy grail, except the LRF does not have an angle indicator. That was a deal breaker for me. If it had an angle indicator, I would have bought it from Steiner.
The LRF is not as good as the 1535nm in the 8x30, but good enough for my purposes.

That 8x30 has an amazing laser in it. No doubt about that. One of the Burris guys sent me a pic of him hitting a target with that at 6100 yards. Pretty crazy.

I see the value in the cosine compensation in a hunting LRF. But I got burned by a Vortex LRF because of that angle compensation while shooting at a wolf up in Riggins Idaho a handful of years ago. I've not used one with it since.

 

[Scopeye]

I’m new to long range shooting and wanting to buy a rangefinder. Also considering binoculars with a built in rangefinder. Is it better to have a separate rangefinder and binoculars or are the combined units just as good? Looking at either a Leica or Sig as far as rangefinders go unless there are better suggestions.

My opinion is to definitely go for separate gear. I started with a Leica rangefinder binoculars (buy once cry once right?) and found it to be too heavy for using it for hunting with (it's weight was noticeable to me out on the field) and experienced defect laser quit reading and then was out of both binoculars and rangefinder at the same time when sending off for warranty. Never again will I allow this to happen eventhough I was tempted to buy a SIG rangefinder binoculars even with it's short term limited 5 year electronics warranty from date of manufacture NOT date of actual purchase and found out they won't and don't have any intension to repair any of their electronics outside of their very short electronics warranty including rangefinder binoculars and riflescopes with illuminated reticles or with anti can't and bluetooth outside of their 5 years limited warranty making them truly disposable throw away goods which I'm not rich enough to afford to throw anything away after warranty is over and it fails and all electronics do and will fail right after their warranty unless you buy a real lifetime warranty backed product which includes their electronics from Vortex Burris Athlon Maven Tract including Leupold Scopes and their red dots but not their rangefinders only two year warranty and maybe Primary Arms.

My next rangefinder will be the $450 Maven 7x which appears to have the best in class glass with no one coming close to it's optical excellence plus their Lifetime warranty including their electronics plays a very important factor in my decision to buy from this brand plus it's not made in China. Just waiting for their next 15% off sale then I'm ordering one. Maven also has a demo program to try it out before buying. It will be my first Maven brand product and at least it's not made in China.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

If Leica makes a Geovid Pro lrf in 10x56 I’d. it those today

Those will do absolutely nothing over the 10x42's for what you're doing. It might gain you 5 minutes of viewing beyond legal hunting time but that's all it's going to do which is pointless for what you're using them for. You'd be carrying a bigger binocular and stuffing it in your pack for zero gain. 10x42 is the ticket.

 

[koshkin]

Those will do absolutely nothing over the 10x42's for what you're doing. It might gain you 5 minutes of viewing beyond legal hunting time but that's all it's going to do which is pointless for what you're using them for. You'd be carrying a bigger binocular and stuffing it in your pack for zero gain. 10x42 is the ticket.

That's very personal. I have several 10x42 and 10x50 binos. After spending a significant amount of time with both, I developed a very strong preference for the 10x50. The reason is not only low light performance although that's a part of it. The biggest reason, for me, is that for prolonged glassing, I get less eye fatigue with a slightly larger exit pupil and slightly heavier bino. I can hold it steadier.

ILya

 

[redneckbmxer24]

That's very personal. I have several 10x42 and 10x50 binos. After spending a significant amount of time with both, I developed a very strong preference for the 10x50. The reason is not only low light performance although that's a part of it. The biggest reason, for me, is that for prolonged glassing, I get less eye fatigue with a slightly larger exit pupil and slightly heavier bino. I can hold it steadier.

ILya

Some do like 50mm and 56mm lenses on 8x and 10x binos but most don't, that's why 8x42 and 10x42 are the top selling binos and large diameter options are limited.

I've had several 8x and 10x 50mm and 56mm binos too. They did nothing 42's didn't and were just huge. 56's I want mounted on a tripod and with 15x behind them. I also don't believe theres any issues with the 4.2mm exit pupil on a 10x42, in fact I much prefer my NL 12x42's in that aspect over my EL 8.5x42's despite having a 20% smaller exit pupil at 3.5mm. I sit for hours on end watching birds and animals with my NL 12's and I'm definitely someone thats very prone to eye fatigue. Matches are loaded with 15x56's that spotters sit behind for most of the day glass with with have a 3.7mm exit pupil. Look what most western hunters are using. So I think it's reasonable to agree that most people don't have an issue with that.

You'll also find that many larger objective lens versions have smaller FOV too. Look at the 8x Geovid Pro's as a perfect example. The 32mm has a 405ft FOV, the 42mm a 390ft FOV and a 387ft FOV for the 56mm. The pros also aren't light binos either, the 32's are 30.7oz, the 42's are 34-35oz and the 56 is 42oz so the weight it also there. I know weight is very personal but you'll find that most people prefer binos in the 20-30oz range for offhand use, the lightest models start at that.

 

[koshkin]

Some do like 50mm and 56mm lenses on 8x and 10x binos but most don't, that's why 8x42 and 10x42 are the top selling binos and large diameter options are limited.

I've had several 8x and 10x 50mm and 56mm binos too. They did nothing 42's didn't and were just huge. 56's I want mounted on a tripod and with 15x behind them. I also don't believe theres any issues with the 4.2mm exit pupil on a 10x42, in fact I much prefer my NL 12x42's in that aspect over my EL 8.5x42's despite having a 20% smaller exit pupil at 3.5mm. I sit for hours on end watching birds and animals with my NL 12's and I'm definitely someone thats very prone to eye fatigue. Matches are loaded with 15x56's that spotters sit behind for most of the day glass with with have a 3.7mm exit pupil. Look what most western hunters are using. So I think it's reasonable to agree that most people don't have an issue with that.

You'll also find that many larger objective lens versions have smaller FOV too. Look at the 8x Geovid Pro's as a perfect example. The 32mm has a 405ft FOV, the 42mm a 390ft FOV and a 387ft FOV for the 56mm. The pros also aren't light binos either, the 32's are 30.7oz, the 42's are 34-35oz and the 56 is 42oz so the weight it also there. I know weight is very personal but you'll find that most people prefer binos in the 20-30oz range for offhand use, the lightest models start at that.

It is indeed easier to get wide FOV with a smaller objective. The rest is personal preference.
I had a chance to spend a significant amount of time with Razor UHD 10x42 and 10x50 side by side. They are very similar in performance aside from the objective lens and exit pupil diameter. FOV difference is within 0.1 deg, which is more or less in the noise.
I glass both off the tripod and handheld. For me, the 10x50 was clearly easier to use for extended periods of time.
The 50mm is 4 ounces heavier. That is a reasonable compromise for me.
10x42 is definitely the most common configuration made. I have a strong suspicion it is a chicken/egg things where manufacturers make what the customer asks for, while the customers buy what the manufacturer makes.
In the end, it is all very personal. I looked at the 12x42 NL Pure and hated it with the passion. There is something about how Swaro optimizes the image that gives me a headache. I think they overcorrect it. I vastly preferred Leica Noctivid as far as the image goes and if they had a 10x50 model, I'd own it. I used to own the 8x42 for a couple of years, but wanted to a 10x when I moved.

ILya

 

[Birddog6424]

I had the same problem with the NL. I thought it was just me.

I pretty much glass exclusively from a tripod with those Steiners. They're a heavy bino, but I dont really notice it in a chest rig. Anytime I'm serious about glassing an area the tripod comes out. My pack is 25lbs, my rifle is 12lbs, what's a few more ounces

 

[redneckbmxer24]

It is indeed easier to get wide FOV with a smaller objective. The rest is personal preference.
I had a chance to spend a significant amount of time with Razor UHD 10x42 and 10x50 side by side. They are very similar in performance aside from the objective lens and exit pupil diameter. FOV difference is within 0.1 deg, which is more or less in the noise.
I glass both off the tripod and handheld. For me, the 10x50 was clearly easier to use for extended periods of time.
The 50mm is 4 ounces heavier. That is a reasonable compromise for me.
10x42 is definitely the most common configuration made. I have a strong suspicion it is a chicken/egg things where manufacturers make what the customer asks for, while the customers buy what the manufacturer makes.
In the end, it is all very personal. I looked at the 12x42 NL Pure and hated it with the passion. There is something about how Swaro optimizes the image that gives me a headache. I think they overcorrect it. I vastly preferred Leica Noctivid as far as the image goes and if they had a 10x50 model, I'd own it. I used to own the 8x42 for a couple of years, but wanted to a 10x when I moved.

ILya

You’re in the minority on NL’s too just like 10x50’s. NL’s get stellar feedback. There are guys on bird forum that nerd out over binos as much as you do on rifle scopes and NL’s are highly regarded, especially the 12’s. I’ve owned dozens of top tier binos and the NL 12’s is by far the best viewing experience I’ve had with any piece of glass.

The first time I tried out NL’s at a store (several models and got to take them outside but time was limited) I didn’t like them but I think it was mostly because I was trying to talk myself out of the extra $1K. One of my biggest complaints (barrels feeling small) is now one of my favorite parts of it, the ergos are amazing compared to traditional binoculars. A couple months later I was able to check them out again and spend much more time with NL 10’s and 12’s and I had to have them.

If you can get some on loan to play with for a while I would highly recommend it.

 

[koshkin]

You’re in the minority on NL’s too just like 10x50’s. NL’s get stellar feedback. There are guys on bird forum that nerd out over binos as much as you do on rifle scopes and NL’s are highly regarded, especially the 12’s. I’ve owned dozens of top tier binos and the NL 12’s is by far the best viewing experience I’ve had with any piece of glass.

The first time I tried out NL’s at a store (several models and got to take them outside but time was limited) I didn’t like them but I think it was mostly because I was trying to talk myself out of the extra $1K. One of my biggest complaints (barrels feeling small) is now one of my favorite parts of it, the ergos are amazing compared to traditional binoculars. A couple months later I was able to check them out again and spend much more time with NL 10’s and 12’s and I had to have them.

If you can get some on loan to play with for a while I would highly recommend it.

I have spent quite a bit of time with NL binos and they just do not work for me. Ever since Swaro started their Swarovision design philosophy, I started having issues with them. Prior to that, their SLCneu were some of my favourite binos. It appear to be a polarizing design. Some people like it and some struggle with it. I am clearly in the latter part.

I have a suspicion that they overcorrect the edges which makes for a very unnatural image to me. That's very impressive from an engineering standpoint, but that is not how a human eye works.

ILya

 

[TheNotoriousBo]

I have spent quite a bit of time with NL binos and they just do not work for me. Ever since Swaro started their Swarovision design philosophy, I started having issues with them. Prior to that, their SLCneu were some of my favourite binos. It appear to be a polarizing design. Some people like it and some struggle with it. I am clearly in the latter part.

I have a suspicion that they overcorrect the edges which makes for a very unnatural image to me. That's very impressive from an engineering standpoint, but that is not how a human eye works.

ILya

sounds like you’re 1 in tens of thousands that doesn’t like the pures. Maybe your eyes are getting old?

 

[koshkin]

sounds like you’re 1 in tens of thousands that doesn’t like the pures. Maybe your eyes are getting old?

I doubt it. I have disliked all of their Swarovision binos since they were introduced in 2010 (or 2009, I don't remember for sure).

In terms of the type of image I prefer, that has not changed much in the last 25 years.

ILya

 

[Scopeye]

sounds like you’re 1 in tens of thousands that doesn’t like the pures. Maybe your eyes are getting old?

Apparently proof that everyone's eyes are different. There were some recommendations that even surprised me that I even returned for refunds after comparing them to my other brands of optics which my own eyes prefer and I like to compare a lot of different optics at the same time to see their actual value in price per dollar spent and which are the best in their respective price points. I personally think too many optics are simply way overpriced for what you actually get. Another thing to consider is if the reviewers are buying them with their own money and paying the same as you and I do or are they sponsored and or have gotten their items for free or a substantial discount (such as half price) to give a good review which some brands are known to do in order to get favorable reviews.

 

[Scopeye]

I doubt it. I have disliked all of their Swarovision binos since they were introduced in 2010 (or 2009, I don't remember for sure).

In terms of the type of image I prefer, that has not changed much in the last 25 years.

ILya

I'm going to buy another Vortex Razor Gen 3 6-36x56 next time they go on sale for under $2000 to compare with my Sightron SVIIIs and give it a round 2 side by side based on your reply to my other post. According to my round 1 side by side the Sightron was superior optically and as soon as the Element Theos goes on sale for $2000 or less I will be buying one to also compare to the Sightron SVIIIs.

 

[Birddog6424]

sounds like you’re 1 in tens of thousands that doesn’t like the pures. Maybe your eyes are getting old?

He's not alone. I have the same problem. They just don't look right.

 

[scocoabeach]

I recently picked up the Maven B6 10 x 50. Lighter than my Meopta 10 x 42s. I don’t have a lot of time behind them yet but they don’t seem fatiguing to me so far. I also purchased the Vortex Fury HD 5000 AB. I thought about something like the Leicas but it seems like LRF binos become obsolete more quickly with the rapid changes in technology. With the Vortex I’m hoping they will cover me for a long time with the lifetime warranty. I could see spending more if you need something that reaches further, but for my needs I like having great glass when I need it and the convenience of range finding binoculars when I want that.

 

[Scopeye]

I recently picked up the Maven B6 10 x 50. Lighter than my Meopta 10 x 42s. I don’t have a lot of time behind them yet but they don’t seem fatiguing to me so far. I also purchased the Vortex Fury HD 5000 AB. I thought about something like the Leicas but it seems like LRF binos become obsolete more quickly with the rapid changes in technology. With the Vortex I’m hoping they will cover me for a long time with the lifetime warranty. I could see spending more if you need something that reaches further, but for my needs I like having great glass when I need it and the convenience of range finding binoculars when I want tleat.

At least you got a no questions asked NO BS Lifetime warranty Including their electronics on your Vortex Fury rangefinder binoculars and you could've done a lot worse and bought a SIG brand with a very worrisome short term electronics warranty that even their own company has no plans to offer any after out of warranty electronics repairs or support. Vortex will cover and replace obsolescence with their newest technology after it fails and all electronics will and do fail you can bet on that and same with Burris with their forever warranty including their electronics such as their Eliminator laser scopes as well as their new line of digital smooth dial clickless electronic rifle scopes.

 

[kthomas]

You’re in the minority on NL’s too just like 10x50’s. NL’s get stellar feedback. There are guys on bird forum that nerd out over binos as much as you do on rifle scopes and NL’s are highly regarded, especially the 12’s. I’ve owned dozens of top tier binos and the NL 12’s is by far the best viewing experience I’ve had with any piece of glass.

The first time I tried out NL’s at a store (several models and got to take them outside but time was limited) I didn’t like them but I think it was mostly because I was trying to talk myself out of the extra $1K. One of my biggest complaints (barrels feeling small) is now one of my favorite parts of it, the ergos are amazing compared to traditional binoculars. A couple months later I was able to check them out again and spend much more time with NL 10’s and 12’s and I had to have them.

If you can get some on loan to play with for a while I would highly recommend it.

I think it's fair to say that there's a level of subjectivity to optics, and how they work with an individual.

Because a specific optic doesn't get along with one person or another doesn't make them bad optics. The NL Pure's are obviously a great set of bino's - but perhaps not for everyone. Same can be said for any model of Swaro, the Leica Noctovid's or any pair of quality bino's in existence.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I think it's fair to say that there's a level of subjectivity to optics, and how they work with an individual.

Because a specific optic doesn't get along with one person or another doesn't make them bad optics. The NL Pure's are obviously a great set of bino's - but perhaps not for everyone. Same can be said for any model of Swaro, the Leica Noctovid's or any pair of quality bino's in existence.

I don't disagree at all, just pointing out that it's unusual for them to not work for people as well as most people not preferring large binoculars.