Range Report Range Reports and Other Musings Part IV

[Srikaleak]

So thought I'd just create a "blog" of sorts on my precision shooting escapades. I'd also like to post up questions and polls to get some answers as well. We'll start with my first question: Shooting 55gr Federal Soft Points out of a 1:7 twist 12.5 inch .223 Wylde barrel, what would be the reason for these less-than-average groups? I was shooting off a bench with a bipod and a sandbag in the rear.

A result from my 6.5 Creedmoor gasser to show an "average" group from that:

I can consistently shoot the 6.5CM gasser in the ~2 inch group.

All I know was my form was horrible. I'm still learning on how to load the bipod but the bipod definitely hopped after every shot. The range provided sand bag offered a surprising amount of stability.
The rifle is a DIY build using JP parts, LMT PDW stock, and a Green Mountain barrel spun up by my smith, and an NF NX8 on top.

 

[Srikaleak]

I try to buy a case of ammo at a time. But does this mean that my zero will shift from case to case? I think reloading will have to be in my future if I want to squeeze out as much accuracy out of both my rifles.

I don't expect to shoot tiny 1/2 inch groups from my SBR but I'd like it to be ~2 MOA out to 200 yards. This should definitely be a goal I can achieve.

 

[acudaowner]

Rome was not built in one day , you will get better . Keep at it . take classes , practices makes perfect or something like that. always remember

 

[Bender]

It’s an AR. And is the scope tight? That seems more than just the shooter. How well do you shoot with a bolt gun? Have another known shooter try it out? Might even be a loose reticle.

 

[Srikaleak]

The night before, I remounted the scope and leveled the reticle using the plumb wire technique. Then I tightened scope mount and rings to spec. I checked after session and scope didn't budge at all.

I haven't shot a bolt gun but can shoot better with my 6.5 gasser.

I'll try the following

• Match ammo
• Another shooter
• Compare SBR with AR10

 

[Subwrx300]

The easiest way to determine if it's shooter or rifle is shoot a rifle and load (someone else's ) that is known to produce x.xxMOA for two or three groups and then switch shooters.

For example, my buddy is a decent shot shot but not that great. We went to range and he shot his rifles and mine back to back to compare shooter vs rifle.

Ruger 22Mag
Buddy: 3/4" to 1" at 50yds
Me: .25-.5" at 50yds

224Valk AR15
Buddy: .5"-1.3"
Me .5"-.7"

223 AR15
Buddy: 1"-1.5"
Me: .7-.9"

6.5CM Custom Rifle
Buddy: .7"-.9"
Me: .3-.4"

You can see from this that while he is pretty close to my groups at times but his generally about 50% larger. Meaning he has more "flyers" than I do with the same rifle and ammo. This means they aren't likely to be flyers but shooter error.

With AR15s specifically, while shooter can be a major factor in precision, groups of 3"+ are probably more the barrel than the shooter. If you can shoot more consistently with a 6.5CM gasser than a 223, it's almost certainly not the shooter. A 6.5 is much more difficult to control than a 223.

My guess is it's something to do with bad barrel, bad ammo or combination of both. With good modern equipment and a bit of practice, it's pretty difficult to shoot 3-5" groups unless your position is wobbly with terrible form.

I had a 224V barrel with 2800 rounds that suddenly shot terribly. Normally .5-1 MOA range max and suddenly shot 3-4 MOA groups. That's a barrel going south, not the shooter.

Hope this helps.

 

[Srikaleak]

I talked to my barrel smith and he recommended a heavier, non soft-point bullet. So I went to my LGS and picked up two boxes of Hornady Match 75gr BTHP. I went to the range yesterday and started off at ~50 yards then pushed out to 100 yds. I also shot my last 15 rounds of 6.5 Creedmoor Prime out of my AR10 to compare.

50 Yards 223:

100 yards 223:

100 yards 6.5 Creedmoor:

I had all 15 6.5 Creedmoor in one magazine and lost count while shooting the groups so group 2 was a 6 shot group while group 3 was a 4 shot group.

For both rifles, I shot as soon as I was ready so I did not let the barrel cool down except for walking down the range to mark the targets. Group 3 for .223 at 100 yards I adjusted elevation so that I wasn't consistently shooting high. I never got around to adjusting the windage but I ran out of match ammo before I could dial it in. The accuracy I obtained during this range session is a lot closer to what I am expecting and what I am currently capable of. I went to a tac bay with full size IPSC steel setup at 60 yards and I could hit the targets with an 85% success rate from the standing position. The main reason for my misses was my shoulders tiring out so it's truly time to hit the gym. I've become such a fatass.

A couple things I learnt: Shooting a pdw stock in the prone is not fun, there is a lot of muzzle climb with my AR15 when shooting standing, I need to work on positional better, and my AR15 barrel shoots heavier bullets a lot better. I do not know how to set the diopter and parallax on my NF C618 so I need to figure that out.

I went to the range alone so I couldn't compare another shooter with my rifle. I guess I could've asked someone else on the line to try but I didn't think of it until now.

 

[Srikaleak]

Quick musing:
Spent 480 rds working on the EL Presidente drill. I was able to quicken my attempt at the drill from 3 seconds to 2.5 seconds from AIWB draw and my magazine change time dropped by 1 second. But my sight was off on the G17 and I was shooting to the right which pissed me off.

So I got my iron sights installed for $60 (daylight robbery but I was there just wanted it done).

Post session today I went to my usual guy to get the sights adjusted. Get this, the bloody front sight was loose. So he starightened it up and tightened for all of $5.

I spent $60 at a high end guntry club to get sights installed and they couldn't even be bothered to do it right. No sight in, no rounds fired to test, nothing. They even held on to it for a week! Garbage. At least their sales staff is friendly and accomodating.

 

[RNWRKNP]

Spent yesterday being my lovely brides bitch and today on the computer cranking out some drawing review prep for a ton of estimating that has to go out in the next couple weeks.....you monkey stomped my ass for shooting this weekend.? Keep at it dude and two things that I try to be mindful of. Slow down and be patient with yourself. Your building muscle memory so take the time you need to do it right? Dry fire practice helps me a lot and it’s cheap.

 

[VegasHKShooter]

Amazing how better ammo gets such better results huh??
Good for you man. Good for staying with it and trying to improve.
If you ever doubt yourself or your equipment, it’s best to have a “go to” load that you KNOW shoots well in your gun. Have one that’s a “old faithful” this way, if things get shitty, you can always stop, and go back to that load, and regroup.
I will also throw in that your stock is HORRIBLE for shooting groups off of a rear bag. Carbine stocks tend to slip, causing shots to throw high. There’s a reason Precision stocks are flat on the bottom, have adjustable length of pull and cheek position. They are easier to get behind, AND they sit in a rear bag better.
True story: I can pretty consistently shoot my GAP-10 6.5CM into .5moa groups. I have been playing HELL with my KAC ACC .308. Instead of freaking out and sending it back to KAC, I had my buddy (a fantastic shooter) get behind it. He shot a solid MOA group with it.
I literally shot a .52moa group next to him with my GAP-10. I went to the target, looking at his group, being irritated at my inability to get my KAC to shoot as well as him. I said “look at my GAP....I CAN shoot a gasser, I know it’s not that”. He laughed and said “what is the difference in the GAP and your KAC?”
His point....I have a Magpul PRS stock on my GAP, and a Carbine type stock on my KAC. The stock is different enough that it’s killing my groups with my KAC.
Long story, but I use it to show 1) EVERYONE has bad days, 2) equipment matters to a degree, 3) having someone else shoot your gun, and analyze you can really help. With the caveat that they know what they are doing. He’s a top 30 NRL shooter. I’m a solid 100 NRL shooter. ?

 

[Srikaleak]

Just got back from the range. Today's session was focused on the pistol doing the Box Drill with mag changes, dummy rounds to sinulate malfunctions and a few positional changes as well. The focus was not on time but on accuracy and recognizing malfunction vs empty mag quickly. I was shooting this drill at around 4 yards and my split times were averaging 3.5 seconds without malfunctions/mag changes and 5.5 seconds with malf/mag changes. I'll take that as a baseline.
Dry fire practice with pistol is paying dividends. My trigger pull is a lot more consistent now.

For rifle work, I shot my SBR at steel at around 65 yds. Just plinking and trying out my new TBAC 9. Sunny day in Texas ~83 deg. Can became smoky after two mags and was super hot through the suppressor sleeve. I took it off and ran another 5 mags through the SBR. Put the can on for the last mag and it run flawlessly. I wasn't doing mag dumps but I was doing double tap drills on steel at distance. Probably 4 seconds gap between each attempt.

The biggest concerns during this session were

1. The lock ring for the diopter on my NF NX8 managed to unthread itself during the plinking session
2. I need to manage recoil better on the rifle. Double tap split times were in the 3 second range and seemed slow.
3. I need to practice rifle mag changes at home
4. I need to work out my shoulders more
5. I need to learn how to work a sling better
6. I'll probably want to buy a suppressor rated for full auto for my SBR. I don't believe the TBAC can became too hot but I was paranoid I was going to ruin it the entire time.

As far as precision long range is concerned, I'm out of ammo. And I'm not gonna buy a case of match ammo as I want to start reloading. So the money is currently being accrued to buy a bitchin' reloading setup. I built the bench and bought the case cleaner. Next step is to buy an A&D FX120i with the V3 autotrickler. Followed by the misc measuring tools (calipers, chronograph, etc). Then the Dillon 550c with the toolheads and dies for 9mm, .223Rem, 6.5CM. I'm hoping by end of July that setup will be done and I can load up a shit ton of 9mm, .223 with heavies, and start load dev for 6.5CM.

 

[Srikaleak]

Quick update: finally acquired all of my reloading equipment. Now it's just bullets, powder, brass, and primers til the end of days.
Range report:
Jeez Louise I have issues zeroing optics. First time out with my Aimpoint Acro on my G17 and it took me about 50 rounds to get that thing sighted in at 25 yards. Spent the rest of the range time focusing on proper draw with pistol RDS. Note to self: aim high when shooting at something close. Also, need to dry fire practice way more. Having a red dot on a pistol is amazing. Both eyes open looking through the sight and focusing on the target all you can see is a red dot super imposed on the target. Game changing and hopefully becomes standardized on CCWs.

 

[Srikaleak]

Just got back from the range after doing some load development for .223. Since I'm working with an SBR I'm not expecting utmost precision and velocity but I think I'm at a good starting point.

Working with 68gr Hornady BTHP, CFE 223, Federal #205 Primers, and bulk brass from Capital Armory. Tried to work with same headstamps on the brass but who knows what lots they were. Started at 24.0 grains and worked up to 25.8 grains with 0.2 grain increments. Was able to get to 25.8 grains without any signs of pressure or flattened primers, no FTEs or FTFs either.

Was able to obtain the following with the 5 shot string @ 25.8 grains CFE: 2561 fps avg velocity, 20 fps SD, 54 fps ES. The "best" set of values came from 25.4 grains with 2493 fps avg velocity, 11 fps SD, 34 fps ES.