Advanced Marksmanship Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size guide

[ggmanning]

Does anyone know of a source for average silouette /brisket or height measurements of common hunted animals to use with ranging reticles. Deer, antelope, crow, coyote, groundhog, etc?

Also common sizes for other markers to help ranging: ie road signs, etc

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size guide

If the animal is more than 300 yards, then ranging with the reticle will put in too much error factor, and the hit probability goes way down. There's been several threads discussing this. There's too much variation in the height/width from animal to animal to range them accuratly. Plus, I've tried to do this in the field on a deer, and there is not enough time. They won't stay still long enough! If they are closer than 300, then it doesn't matter that much. That's why I carry a laser range finder.

 

[Dagsta]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size guide

What he said!!! Get a rangefinder and make it easy on yourself.

 

[kimberyote]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size guide

I made coyote silhouettes and tried to make visual differences from different distances with my Boone & Crockett crosshairs and it just didn't work for me.
I hunt in a very flat terrain and a lot of times my Lieca rangefinder can't pick up the yote or the land. What I do then is walk to were the yote was and record the distance on a homemade map. If I see them in an area one time, they will show up usually again in the same place. I usually hunt in the same area in general. YMMV.

 

[Helidonna]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size guide

Range finders do make it much easier.

 

[gabriellapua]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size guide

I used my NXS 5.5X22X56 NPR2 last year to range and kill my dear @ 1350 yards with my .338 lapua my first shot was hi, but at that range the deer had no clue what just happend and my next shot was true, so it can be done. i was also 5 miles in hunting my ass off. i also had plenty of time to do this. those deer had no clue i was even there and when your that far in, there is pretty much no one else around so the deer arent runing for there lives like they are close to the gravel roads. but i have to admit i did buy a range finder that on "reflective" targets will get me out to 1500 meters. But dont listen to people that tell you it cant be done. i did it

 

[gabriellapua]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size guide

Wikapedia is a good source BTW and so is google to find out a measurement of an "adult" animal such as a mule deer or black bear ect ect

 

[DBohn]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size guide

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gabriel.338lapua</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I used my NXS 5.5X22X56 NPR2 last year to range and kill my dear @ 1350 yards with my .338 lapua my first shot was hi, but at that range the deer had no clue what just happend and my next shot was true, so it can be done. i was also 5 miles in hunting my ass off. i also had plenty of time to do this. those deer had no clue i was even there and when your that far in, there is pretty much no one else around so the deer arent runing for there lives like they are close to the gravel roads. but i have to admit i did buy a range finder that on "reflective" targets will get me out to 1500 meters. But dont listen to people that tell you it cant be done. i did it </div></div>

I don't think people were saying that it's impossible to range with a scope just that it's much easier and faster to use a rangefinder.

You say that you shot high the first shot after you ranged the animal and put that correction on your scope. You only hit it after correcting for the first missed shot. Sounds to me like you had the range wrong meaning that ranging with the scope didn't work so well after all.

 

[ggmanning]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size guide

I appreciate the input but several of you infer too much. I didn't ask for easier or which was better and I have a good rangefinder...sometimes stuff messes up or you forget it or the kids take it out of your pack (don't ask). I shoot a lot...I practice ranging on steel...that with animal sizes translates to not having a wasted trip when something like that above happens. I don't plan on making it my sole means of ranging. Deer stand still 400 yards away in a beanfield for a long time....long enough to have a snack and then pick one out. There is a big difference POI from 300 to 400....mil ranging gets you a lot closer than guessing in the absence of said rangefinder. I was looking for a range card like the road sign set up that Impact Data pages makes. I will look at Google and Wickpedia and make my own. It would not be hard to make a short chart out to 400yds that gave a quick reference for average animal size.....ie if I mil X on deer then deer is x yds. I think it would be a nice addition to your tools.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size guide

this is a great question and i'll tell you what i know......

when the laser don't laze....and beleive me this will happen to you....take the time to mill stuff....cows, does, mullies, coyotes, pigs, havelina, etc...and confirm with the laser

what i and another friend have found in our AO....is

doe and young buck @ 14" from back to belly
rare texas barnyard goat @ 13"
cow...(i hate cows)....22"
pigs will vary.....

some other parts of the country will yeild different demensions.

 

[littletoes]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size guide

Like the idea too. Too many folks rely on electronics. Do you have your reticle in there to be "cool" or do you use it? Leupold came out with guidlines for their Duplex reticle years ago, not to mention what can be done with a balistic version.

It works.

 

[RobertB]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size guide

I correctly ranged some feeding deer with my NF npr1. It was at 850 yds. Me and a friend were at my uncle's house when the deer came at the treeline didn't shoot them but for shits and giggles we took the fourweeler to where they were at and ranged back at the measured door at the house and used a leica 1200 and were 20 yds off. Don't know if I could do it consistent but it worked that time. That was also my first time on live game. I also know that 20 yds error at that range could be a miss but it was done that time using 17" from top of body to bottom. I have also heard that it is more accurate to measure from the leg distance for the distance there is closer to the same from different sized deer. That is hearsay but might need to be looked into. Thats why I have my LRF. But please take caution in long range hunting for others safty and those of the critters. I would feel bad on wounding and animal and wasting the meat.

 

[Pete E]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size guide

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the animal is more than 300 yards, then ranging with the reticle will put in too much error factor, and the hit probability goes way down. There's been several threads discussing this. There's too much variation in the height/width from animal to animal to range them accuratly. Plus, I've tried to do this in the field on a deer, and there is not enough time. They won't stay still long enough! If they are closer than 300, then it doesn't matter that much. That's why I carry a laser range finder. </div></div>

I tend to agree with Chad.

Messing up on steel targets is one thing, but wounding a deer is another. Personally, I don't care how hard a person has hunted or how big the rack is, neither justifies taking a low percentage shot...

 

[Rhys]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size guide

Found this a while back when looking for the same info. It's pretty close depending where you are in the country.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/kill_zone_game_animals.htm

 

[SLVGW360]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size guide

I am glad to see that several of you place respect for the animals we pursue as the highest priority. I concur. As a wildlife professional and proud hunter, I see way too much of the opposite viewpoint, that is being "successful" regardless of the cost to the hunter's image, ethics and sportmanship.

To the question of ranging animals with the reticle, I have done it as well. There is just as much homework in this as there is for the police or military sniper in determining what really are the sizes of your targets or other indicators. I tested this several times this fall/winter during a culling operation of damage causing elk. Given the volatility of any given opportunity to get an animal in your scope within a range that the shooter can be accurate from a sitting or taller position (prone shots are rare), the reticle method is faster than the range finder. However, your accuracy will diminish considerably beyond 300 yards. That is true even with an average 26" sternum to withers measurement for elk in my area. To be honest, I used the method more tell me when the animal was out of range (beyond about 475 yards). That is about 1.5 mils, things go to hell after that in the reticle method. My rangefinder and it is a decent one won't reliably go beyond about that with the non-reflective items that I have available off of which to bounce the laser.

I can tell you it was a long road to get to that 26" measurement. I could find no research that included that measurement. One paper I did find measured from the bottom of a front hoof to the sternum or from the hoof to the withers. I just used the difference and checked that with animals that we had taken. I would be very careful about using measurements given in any article. You'd be better off to use actual research in your area, or as close as possible, or start measuring harvested animals. The variation from area to area can be substantial.

I assume that most hunters on this site are serious about their craft and are better than average shots, so I am probably preaching to the choir. However, I have seen far too many "hunters" in the field with only bore sighted weapons and most can't make a shot beyond 100 yards with any degree of certainty. The magnum crowd is a whole other story, some are great while some...not so much.

Good luck,

RB

 

[RemingtonSPS]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size guide

I measured several deer skulls taken from our areas. Mulies and Blacktail skulls measured 6" almost exactly with each buck.

 

[ggmanning]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size guide

Some good info thanks for the input. I use my tools wisely but I don't like to rely soley on anything electronic. I prefer it because it is easier, faster and can be more accurate....but I like to maintain a working knowledge of other means. I have had to come home from 60 miles out in the ocean on my compass and the same principle applies here. I expect the majority of members here are more accurate, respectful of our targets and prepared than 75% of hunters.....I am in the rural S where everyone has a centerfire rifle in the truck and I know it's true in my locale.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size guide

I like to play with range finding, using lasers and mil dots. Its fun.

HOWEVER, when it comes to hunting, I like to find a Max. Point Blank Range and aim for Hair, not Air.

I dont think it is necessary to hunt any critter (for me anyway) over 300 yards.

I save the long range stuff for targets, if I muff those shots, nothing crawls off to suffer.

But thats just me, you milage may very.

 

[RobertB]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size guide

Its not worth wounding a critter for myself. I did once and it still bothers me. What I go by is " will I be amazed if I miss this shot?" If I don't know that I will hit it and my round is powerfull enough( I am curious on that fact) I won't take the shot. But thats just me. Few weeks ago at the range I saw a guy kill some rabbits on the range that he did not eat. Also he said he don't like deer meat but likes to shoot them. I thought he would still harvest them but he said he would let tham lie. I will NOT be that guy. Hopefully I can change that.

 

[SLVGW360]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size guide

I'd like to know about that guy. Most of us disdain the idea of someone killing and leaving animals that are meant to be eaten. In most states, including mine, killing and abandoning big game is a felony. Most states have an Operation Game Thief type program. Here it means if you report information you are guaranteed anonymity by statute.

I don't mean to a fly in the ointment, but taking these types of guys down keeps us all in the good light. Hunting is a privilege that can be taken away. I for one don't ever want to see that day.

RB

 

[marduk185]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size guide

the answer is:
1) hunt max point blank range zero and keep shots under 300ish,or;
b) google earth the hunting area and make a mental range card using visual reference points such as distance between treelines ponds etc. and;
3) take a lrf with you and range various points of reference in your ao to include likely avenues of aproach BEFORE you see the animal.

in any case its hunting, not killing so get closer if youre needin to make elevation corrections theres a good chance you can stalk closer.

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size guide

I'm with Marduk, there really isn't any reason you can't move in closer to a zombie yote in my opinion to get in that guaranteed kill zone range. The last thing anyone needs to do is take a wild guess at the range, target size, wind and wound the animal....even if it is a yodi,cat or zombie, well maybe not the zombie, wound them bad boys

 

[Graham]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size guide

I find it very hard to accurately Mil moving targets. As noted above, a point-blank zero calculated for your optimum range is your best bet. Combine that with an ability to flash-Mil the targets and Milling will improve your hit factor.

 

[jb7032]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size g

figure out what your max point blank range is for a given target size. Do the math to see how many mils that will be in your reticle. Example, if your max point blank range is 300 yards and your target size is 12". A 12" target will be about 1.1 mil at 300yds. So, you can make a mental note of that and when you see the target you can make a quick reference in your reticle. As long as its bigger than 1.1 mil, you know that its within your max point blank range. Hold center mass and make the shot. By the way you don't need a mil-dot reticle to do this. You can do the same thing with a duplex. Especially if its in the second focal plane. Just set the power ring so your expected target size fits the reticle at a given range. Its too easy to make a quick assessment of whether the target is in range or not.

Here's a website that gives some measurements. Remember that the size of the animal is slightly bigger than what you want your kill zone to be. chuck hawks

 

[marduk185]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size g

good stuff jb7032...i think its also worth mentioning here the big difference between sniping and hunting. in sniping, a hit is a win. in hunting you must be able to collect the body for a win. you can knock a animals head clean off but if that thing runs away and you cant find it, thats a fail.

 

[He Shoot Me]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size g

Tag

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size g

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: He_Shoot _Me</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tag </div></div>

Fairly new to forum lingo, seen this a few times, what does it mean?

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size g

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jayjayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: He_Shoot _Me</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tag </div></div>

Fairly new to forum lingo, seen this a few times, what does it mean? </div></div>
It's like duck, duck, goose, he's tagging the original poster, and the OP has to retag him back before it comes back around!

When someone tags a thread, it logs it in their posts, and they can come back to it in the future by looking at their posts without having to search for the thread.

 

[i_Adam_i18]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size g

But if people knew that they could look at the top of the thread, click on "Topic Options" and "Add Topic to your watched Topics" threads would be a bit shorter without all the "Tag"s

 

[SLVGW360]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size g

Here is the card I made up for our work on elk. For the particular load that we used (Federal Tactical w/ Bonded 165 grn bullet) the card will allow you to dial any zero that was verified at the range. I typically stayed with my 300 yard zero and the memorized the mil hold-offs for ranges from 25 to 400.

This seemed to work very well. The key with these animals was that they were quite spooky and shot opportunties were fleeting. Long sticks for use when standing or kneeling was the primary means of shot setup because the brush was fairly tall. Everyshot that I fired was in the boiler room. Thankfully not too hard to do on a critter that big.

 

[ggmanning]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size g

That is exactly what I am talking about. My main targets are smaller deer/coyotes so I am making my cards 400 and closer and using 100 yd zero. I don't need to shoot further anyway and the error would go up quickly with yardage on smaller targets.

 

[THUNDERBOLT68]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size g

ggmanning, if you are talking about 400 yrds. depending on your caliber. sight in for 300 yards then hold in middle of animal and pull trigger out to 350 yrds.
Use hold over marks for 350 to 400 yd.

 

[ggmanning]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size g

True...but I am using 100 yard zero and want to keep it that way.

 

[THUNDERBOLT68]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size g

Why ??????
Well my zero at 100 yards is 4.2 inches high at 100 yds.

 

[ridge]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size g

 

[ridge]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size g

 

[ridge]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size g

 

[ggmanning]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size g

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THUNDERBOLT68</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why ??????
Well my zero at 100 yards is 4.2 inches high at 100 yds. </div></div>

In my best homegrown redneck "cause dats how I roll don't be hatin'"

Nah, seriously I stick with 100 yard zero because I shoot several calibers long range (more than 400yds) and for me its much easier to use the same system for all the rifles regardless of point blank range and drop. It just works for me switching around guns.

 

[THUNDERBOLT68]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size g

ggmanning, You are the one that said you are not going to shoot over 400 yrds. So why do you need to range animals with your reticle again?

I am not sure I follow your logic. Dialing is Dialing... When you are hunting you do not always have time to dial.

I am really not trying to be a smart ass. I would like to help. Please do not take it that way, But no matter what your caliber you are using a 300 yard zero for long range is better than 100 yds. You are still going to dial up for longer shots past 400.
so maybe it is 3 mils instead of 5 mils.

 

[ggmanning]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size g

Didn't take it that way THUNDERBOLT. Thanks for any input. I am not new to any of this, so I am not starting blank and looking for ways to do these things but ways to improve how I do these things. I take bits and pieces of any advice and and blend it in with what works for me. Appreciate all the input on the thread and I got what I was looking for so I will default to those that want to argue the finer points. Greg

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: Ranging animals hunting...looking for a size g

Awesome pictures, Ridge! Those are great!!