Advanced Marksmanship Ranging/Shooting at Night

eleaf

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
I just received my Bushnell Excursion spotting scope with mil reticle and I'm wanting to try and range the hell out of everything I see until I can't doit wrong. That's a good thing, but I have no clue how to do it at night.

How does one use a not-lit reticle at night to range? Ideally I'd like to train so that I don't give away my position if possible.

Thanks.
 
Re: Ranging/Shooting at Night

Are you not able to practice during the day?? I think ranging at night with a reticle even lit would be difficult unless the object itself that you are ranging is lit well...just my thoughts. Never really tried ranging at night with a reticle.

I guess night vision optics might work as well.

Maybe some of the LE/Military guys will chime in.
 
Re: Ranging/Shooting at Night

It's pretty hard and very much situational dependent. Here is what I've used on the Unertls in the past.

Depending on the optic, you may be able to use one of the tiny chem-lights taped on the objective that will cast illumination onto the reticle, but most of the time this also washes out your target preventing you from being able to see it. Catch-22. The trick is getting just enough of the light exposed to light up your reticle without washing out the target. Use red. You will have very mixed results with this, and it takes a lot of trial and error. Again, situational dependent.

Bottom line is if you can't make out both the reticle and the target clearly at the same time, you can't do it. This is the whole reason there is now LRFs, illuminated reticles, and night vision.

ETA: These are the types of chemlights I'm talking about: Link

All you need to expose is a couple mm at most. Tape up the rest.
 
Re: Ranging/Shooting at Night

Here is the problem, civilians and those "interested" in this see using a mil dot as a primary method, as in mil ranging is done a lot more than in the military.

Now lets look at nigh operations, most are short and fast, long shots at night are about 400 yards... not a whole lot of ranging necessary inside 400. Sure you can shoot farther at night, but it takes a bit more to pull off successfully and not something done.

As well once the shooting starts and you're supporting a dynamic situation, even less ranging is done by means other than fire.

Nowaday guys have units on their rifles that range to 10,000m, and that is not a typo. The STORM, like here

DSCN2314web.jpg


the RULR I won't show today, but should is mounted on top of the scope rings in front of the turrets and is co-located with a visible laser so the non-visible can be used with a push of the button. Reticle on target, hit the button range appears right over the turret. Fast, simply, no thinking. The RULR fits between the turret and the objective bell and has a 10,000m range also...

Mil ranging is a Last resort... then when they do it, it's head to waist, 36" quick and dirty. If you miss on the first shot correct. But they use map ranging and other methods before the mil dots.

At night, effective ranges, there is no need to range anything, hold at the head you'll hit even if you have no dope on the rifle. You're not shooting 1 MOA at 400 at night, you can't even see it. Although to side track, you want to work at night with an inline unit, get a Hensoldt SSG-P that scope is night hunter, you have your mils inside so when you adjust the turrets, the scale tells you where you are... seen in the NV. Awesome at night.
 
Re: Ranging/Shooting at Night

Charlie had it right shooting the long range mover at the 'Bash: 400m zero, flash-Mil for an estimated wind-hold, fire one, observe the impact, and have the second on the way before you hear the sound of the first; with the second on target the third is already on the way.
 
Re: Ranging/Shooting at Night

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is the problem, civilians and those "interested" in this see using a mil dot as a primary method, as in mil ranging is done a lot more than in the military.

Now lets look at nigh operations, most are short and fast, long shots at night are about 400 yards... not a whole lot of ranging necessary inside 400. Sure you can shoot farther at night, but it takes a bit more to pull off successfully and not something done.

As well once the shooting starts and you're supporting a dynamic situation, even less ranging is done by means other than fire.

Nowaday guys have units on their rifles that range to 10,000m, and that is not a typo. The STORM, like here

DSCN2314web.jpg


the RULR I won't show today, but should is mounted on top of the scope rings in front of the turrets and is co-located with a visible laser so the non-visible can be used with a push of the button. Reticle on target, hit the button range appears right over the turret. Fast, simply, no thinking. The RULR fits between the turret and the objective bell and has a 10,000m range also...

Mil ranging is a Last resort... then when they do it, it's head to waist, 36" quick and dirty. If you miss on the first shot correct. But they use map ranging and other methods before the mil dots.

At night, effective ranges, there is no need to range anything, hold at the head you'll hit even if you have no dope on the rifle. You're not shooting 1 MOA at 400 at night, you can't even see it. Although to side track, you want to work at night with an inline unit, get a Hensoldt SSG-P that scope is night hunter, you have your mils inside so when you adjust the turrets, the scale tells you where you are... seen in the NV. Awesome at night. </div></div>

Thanks.

That was well explained.

So I guess my question then should be more along the lines of how do I train for night shooting in competitions?

I know that the Mammoth Sniper Challenge will have 1 night shooting stage, and LRFs are not allowed. I'm not in that challenge, but plan to sign up for as many competitions as I can within reason from here out.

Is a lit reticle necessary in those situations? I have one on my rifle, that's not a problem, I'm just basically looking to train also for when batteries die/something else goes where ranging via last means is necessary.

I tried to use red light last night, but as one poster mentioned, it lit the reticle, but washed out the target. All I could see was red with a reticle in it.
 
Re: Ranging/Shooting at Night

I have no idea what Mammoth is doing for a night stage... I can honestly say I never recall doing something at night that wasn't partially illuminated -- how can they, NV is not on the equipment list. Whether you need an illuminated reticle is a function of your scope. Can you see the reticle in "low light" that is the question, will something in the background along with the shadows cause you to lose the reticle - a real possibility even with a partially lit stage.

Most night shoots in competition are KD type target under partial illumination, again, I have no idea what Mammoth is doing, I never heard of it until 10 days ago. They can do anything they like, but I know if NV is not on the list you won't be doing something that requires it.

Besides it's one stage... I doubt it will be a game changer for the match. Do lit reticles help, sure they can... but they also the break the most of any component on a scope. Short answer, get a NF and not sweat it
 
Re: Ranging/Shooting at Night

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have no idea what Mammoth is doing for a night stage... I can honestly say I never recall doing something at night that wasn't partially illuminated -- how can they, NV is not on the equipment list. Whether you need an illuminated reticle is a function of your scope. Can you see the reticle in "low light" that is the question, will something in the background along with the shadows cause you to lose the reticle - a real possibility even with a partially lit stage.

Most night shoots in competition are KD type target under partial illumination, again, I have no idea what Mammoth is doing, I never heard of it until 10 days ago. They can do anything they like, but I know if NV is not on the list you won't be doing something that requires it.
</div></div>

Apparently, if I read the thread correctly, the outline of the target will be visible (I'm imagining those long glow tubes or something).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Short answer, get a NF and not sweat it </div></div>

I'm one step ahead of that recommendation! Just got an F1 to replace the 5.5-22x56 MLR/MIL that I sold.
 
Re: Ranging/Shooting at Night

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just can't get used to introducing a light source that close to my eye at night. </div></div>

That's why you turn the intensity down, if you can.
 
Re: Ranging/Shooting at Night

im not a professional, but down here in aus, the vast majority of our pest control shooting is done at night, from a 4x4.

ive been out there with professional roo shooters who work exclusively at night, you would be surprised how little light you really need to make 'clean' headshots out to around 400m without an illuminated reticle. of course, more light is always more betterererer.
wink.gif


i also do the vast majority of my shooting at night, and as long as your glass is good to go, you should be fine, if you find you are loosing your reticle, my only suggestion would be:

get closer, or get more light.

illuminated reticles are great for those grey times at dawn and dusk i find, but if there is a little light on target, my NF gets clicked off.

take it for what you will mate, what works for me may not work for you, afterall, we are all upside down here anyway....

jimi