title says it all, I have been neck sizing with the lee collet ( I was under the impression that this type of die will not cause concentricity issues)on a foster co-ax press then seating with a rcbs, about every other round has a lot of resistance when i close the bolt down. i checked were it was causing resistance and round a large scuff mark of one side of the bullet
-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
rcbs seating die causing run out?
- Thread starter Libilaw
- Start date
Re: rcbs seating die causing run out?
Same thing happened to me. Either need to trim your brass or back the collet die a bit. Just my experiences. Urs may be different. Also if it goes in a little crooked that will do it
Same thing happened to me. Either need to trim your brass or back the collet die a bit. Just my experiences. Urs may be different. Also if it goes in a little crooked that will do it
Re: rcbs seating die causing run out?
I'm not knocking your dies, but I gave up on RCBS and went to a Redding Comp Set.
Expensive, but I'm in for the long haul.
Hope you get it worked out.
I'm not knocking your dies, but I gave up on RCBS and went to a Redding Comp Set.
Expensive, but I'm in for the long haul.
Hope you get it worked out.
Re: rcbs seating die causing run out?
Nah, just mic a few to be sure they are within proper length. Odds are your alignment is off a bit meaning the cases are a little cocked as they enter the die. Personally, I fl with rcbs die, then trim if necessary, then run it threw a lee collet die for getting rid of run out. You don't need that fancy stuff. Just a little willingness and patience to make the less expensive dies do what the 200$ ones will.
Nah, just mic a few to be sure they are within proper length. Odds are your alignment is off a bit meaning the cases are a little cocked as they enter the die. Personally, I fl with rcbs die, then trim if necessary, then run it threw a lee collet die for getting rid of run out. You don't need that fancy stuff. Just a little willingness and patience to make the less expensive dies do what the 200$ ones will.
Re: rcbs seating die causing run out?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Enough Said</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not knocking your dies, but I gave up on RCBS and went to a Redding Comp Set.
Expensive, but I'm in for the long haul.
Hope you get it worked out. </div></div>
I gave up on RCBS dies long ago. After a lot of testing I kept the Redding Comp bushing and Redding Type S Match bushing full resize dies. I do not neck turn and typically see 0.0000" to 0.0015" TIR in my finished ammo using a Sinclair concentricity indicator tool.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Enough Said</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not knocking your dies, but I gave up on RCBS and went to a Redding Comp Set.
Expensive, but I'm in for the long haul.
Hope you get it worked out. </div></div>
I gave up on RCBS dies long ago. After a lot of testing I kept the Redding Comp bushing and Redding Type S Match bushing full resize dies. I do not neck turn and typically see 0.0000" to 0.0015" TIR in my finished ammo using a Sinclair concentricity indicator tool.
Re: rcbs seating die causing run out?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aimsmall55</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nah, just mic a few to be sure they are within proper length. Odds are your alignment is off a bit meaning the cases are a little cocked as they enter the die. Personally, I fl with rcbs die, then trim if necessary, then run it threw a lee collet die for getting rid of run out. You don't need that fancy stuff. Just a little willingness and patience to make the less expensive dies do what the 200$ ones will. </div></div>
Even at minimum wage my time will quickly surpass the small initial additional cost the best tools. It is false economy to go cheap on tools that produce mediocre results. It is cheaper to buy the best tools and get the best results with minimal effort and that will continue to produce the best results for a lifetime.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aimsmall55</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nah, just mic a few to be sure they are within proper length. Odds are your alignment is off a bit meaning the cases are a little cocked as they enter the die. Personally, I fl with rcbs die, then trim if necessary, then run it threw a lee collet die for getting rid of run out. You don't need that fancy stuff. Just a little willingness and patience to make the less expensive dies do what the 200$ ones will. </div></div>
Even at minimum wage my time will quickly surpass the small initial additional cost the best tools. It is false economy to go cheap on tools that produce mediocre results. It is cheaper to buy the best tools and get the best results with minimal effort and that will continue to produce the best results for a lifetime.
Re: rcbs seating die causing run out?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Libilaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> How good are the forster dies? </div></div>
for my,the really best item among forsters is the Ultra Micrometr Seater_ my forster fl it's a little bit tight at the neck_ far better than rcbs,anyway_ if you need a fl die only,go with redding_
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Libilaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> How good are the forster dies? </div></div>
for my,the really best item among forsters is the Ultra Micrometr Seater_ my forster fl it's a little bit tight at the neck_ far better than rcbs,anyway_ if you need a fl die only,go with redding_
Re: rcbs seating die causing run out?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Libilaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">title says it all, I have been neck sizing with the lee collet ( I was under the impression that this type of die will not cause concentricity issues)on a foster co-ax press then seating with a rcbs, about every other round has a lot of resistance when i close the bolt down. i checked were it was causing resistance and round a large scuff mark of one side of the bullet </div></div>
Wait a second are you saying that when you close your rifle bolt you have some resistance? This means you need to resize, bump the shoulders or trim case length before reloading. Do you have a headspace comparator? This is a tool that lets you see where your case shoulder is and if it needs to be bumped so the case is not too long for the chamber. Hornady and Sinclair both make an excellent headspace comparator that can also be used to measure bullet ogive height.
HTH!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Libilaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">title says it all, I have been neck sizing with the lee collet ( I was under the impression that this type of die will not cause concentricity issues)on a foster co-ax press then seating with a rcbs, about every other round has a lot of resistance when i close the bolt down. i checked were it was causing resistance and round a large scuff mark of one side of the bullet </div></div>
Wait a second are you saying that when you close your rifle bolt you have some resistance? This means you need to resize, bump the shoulders or trim case length before reloading. Do you have a headspace comparator? This is a tool that lets you see where your case shoulder is and if it needs to be bumped so the case is not too long for the chamber. Hornady and Sinclair both make an excellent headspace comparator that can also be used to measure bullet ogive height.
HTH!
Re: rcbs seating die causing run out?
I have a set of Redding dies and yes they are bad ass. But.... I have done just as well w/o them in the past. The way things are going "Reloading" will be added to the 2016 summer Olympics and possibly the winter with "Reloader"powders. Just kidding. All in fun. Just saying I have shot sub moa to 1200 yards w/ 34$ dies. Got to know how to steer it
I have a set of Redding dies and yes they are bad ass. But.... I have done just as well w/o them in the past. The way things are going "Reloading" will be added to the 2016 summer Olympics and possibly the winter with "Reloader"powders. Just kidding. All in fun. Just saying I have shot sub moa to 1200 yards w/ 34$ dies. Got to know how to steer it
Re: rcbs seating die causing run out?
Yeah, as long as we are talking conventional seating dies, I do not see where RCBS is much different from the rest? It may help to use a VLD chamfer? Personally I use Wilson chamber type seating dies and don't worry about it.
Some people turn the case 180 degrees as they are seating the bullet, thinking that helps concentricity. Maybe it does, but we will never know until we check it on a concentricity gauge. BB
Yeah, as long as we are talking conventional seating dies, I do not see where RCBS is much different from the rest? It may help to use a VLD chamfer? Personally I use Wilson chamber type seating dies and don't worry about it.
Some people turn the case 180 degrees as they are seating the bullet, thinking that helps concentricity. Maybe it does, but we will never know until we check it on a concentricity gauge. BB
Re: rcbs seating die causing run out?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Libilaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bought the co-ax to eliminate alignment issues. I will try and full length size when i get my new expander. How good are the forster dies? </div></div>
What alignment issues? As far as I can tell after considering the mechanical design and using a Co-Ax press the Co-Ax does not offer any real advantage over a conventional press except in the area of potentially having an improved force curve on the handle during case forming operations. I've never had a problem with the muscle needed using conventional presses or even progressive presses. IMO the Co-Ax is a unique press with a lot of thought put into the design to distinguish itself from other presses on the market. If there is a unique design feature of the Co-Ax that shows up in the finished ammo I have not seen them. Anybody see anything in their finished ammo that only a Co-Ax can produce? If so please post it here or link us to a new thread.
Any non entry level press from any of the major manufacturers can produce the highest level of hand loaded ammunition if properly configured and setup. Understanding the reloading process and using a workflow appropriate for the equipment will be the limiting factor for ammo quality. Better equipment usually means it has fewer quirks to be overcome to achieve the best output. Past that any non entry level press will produce the same quality ammunition all other things being equal (operator skill, dies etc.).
Forster sizing dies are excellent conventional dies. Forster's bullet seater is based on the classic Bonanza sliding sleeve seater design from back in the olden days, yes I was reloading then too. But the Bonanza ne Forster design while a good first pass back in the '60's is dated and was not significantly improved over time. When the patents ran out Redding took a fresh look at the why a sliding sleeve seater works better and then threw out the old Forster design. Redding designed a clean sheet sliding sleeve seater with the internal components designed to allow lateral float and improved the seater slug which yields even higher concentricity.
Redding not only improved on the old Bonanza/Forster sliding sleeve seater but then went on to incorporate these improved ideas into the Redding Competition bushing neck sizing dies and Type S bushing neck dies. You can also see some of these ideas in the Redding Instant Comparator design which allows more consistent readings of case and bullet measurements. IMO the Redding family of sliding sleeve dies, seaters and comparator work better than anything on the market.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Libilaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bought the co-ax to eliminate alignment issues. I will try and full length size when i get my new expander. How good are the forster dies? </div></div>
What alignment issues? As far as I can tell after considering the mechanical design and using a Co-Ax press the Co-Ax does not offer any real advantage over a conventional press except in the area of potentially having an improved force curve on the handle during case forming operations. I've never had a problem with the muscle needed using conventional presses or even progressive presses. IMO the Co-Ax is a unique press with a lot of thought put into the design to distinguish itself from other presses on the market. If there is a unique design feature of the Co-Ax that shows up in the finished ammo I have not seen them. Anybody see anything in their finished ammo that only a Co-Ax can produce? If so please post it here or link us to a new thread.
Any non entry level press from any of the major manufacturers can produce the highest level of hand loaded ammunition if properly configured and setup. Understanding the reloading process and using a workflow appropriate for the equipment will be the limiting factor for ammo quality. Better equipment usually means it has fewer quirks to be overcome to achieve the best output. Past that any non entry level press will produce the same quality ammunition all other things being equal (operator skill, dies etc.).
Forster sizing dies are excellent conventional dies. Forster's bullet seater is based on the classic Bonanza sliding sleeve seater design from back in the olden days, yes I was reloading then too. But the Bonanza ne Forster design while a good first pass back in the '60's is dated and was not significantly improved over time. When the patents ran out Redding took a fresh look at the why a sliding sleeve seater works better and then threw out the old Forster design. Redding designed a clean sheet sliding sleeve seater with the internal components designed to allow lateral float and improved the seater slug which yields even higher concentricity.
Redding not only improved on the old Bonanza/Forster sliding sleeve seater but then went on to incorporate these improved ideas into the Redding Competition bushing neck sizing dies and Type S bushing neck dies. You can also see some of these ideas in the Redding Instant Comparator design which allows more consistent readings of case and bullet measurements. IMO the Redding family of sliding sleeve dies, seaters and comparator work better than anything on the market.
Re: rcbs seating die causing run out?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What alignment issues? As far as I can tell after considering the mechanical design and using a Co-Ax press the Co-Ax does not offer any real advantage over a conventional press except in the area of potentially having an improved force curve on the handle during case forming operations. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What alignment issues? As far as I can tell after considering the mechanical design and using a Co-Ax press the Co-Ax does not offer any real advantage over a conventional press except in the area of potentially having an improved force curve on the handle during case forming operations. </div></div>
Re: rcbs seating die causing run out?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What alignment issues? As far as I can tell after considering the mechanical design and using a Co-Ax press the Co-Ax does not offer any real advantage over a conventional press except in the area of potentially having an improved force curve on the handle during case forming operations. </div></div>
</div></div>
Try this simple experiment. Use your Co-Ax to make the best loaded ammunition you know how to. Then using the same components and dies go load the same ammo on any non entry-level single stage press. Measure all important case dimensions, datum line, ogive height, coal, concentricity, etc. then shoot the ammo. You will not be able to measure or shoot any better or worse between the different lots of ammo.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What alignment issues? As far as I can tell after considering the mechanical design and using a Co-Ax press the Co-Ax does not offer any real advantage over a conventional press except in the area of potentially having an improved force curve on the handle during case forming operations. </div></div>
Try this simple experiment. Use your Co-Ax to make the best loaded ammunition you know how to. Then using the same components and dies go load the same ammo on any non entry-level single stage press. Measure all important case dimensions, datum line, ogive height, coal, concentricity, etc. then shoot the ammo. You will not be able to measure or shoot any better or worse between the different lots of ammo.
Re: rcbs seating die causing run out?
Your test would prove nothing about accuracy rituals.
I am running out of patients for straightening out your shaggy dog posts.
Your test would prove nothing about accuracy rituals.
I am running out of patients for straightening out your shaggy dog posts.
Re: rcbs seating die causing run out?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your test would prove nothing about accuracy rituals.
I am running out of patients for straightening out your shaggy dog posts. </div></div>
I say if your score is higher and it is repeatable whatever you did is worth keeping. If it makes no difference using brand Z or brand X press using the same dies and ammunition components with the same shooter and rifle under similar conditions either press will work just as well to the shooter and the target.
Please enlighten us all and show us a better way than shooting paper at long range to prove or disprove the effectiveness of a reloading practice or piece of equipment.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your test would prove nothing about accuracy rituals.
I am running out of patients for straightening out your shaggy dog posts. </div></div>
I say if your score is higher and it is repeatable whatever you did is worth keeping. If it makes no difference using brand Z or brand X press using the same dies and ammunition components with the same shooter and rifle under similar conditions either press will work just as well to the shooter and the target.
Please enlighten us all and show us a better way than shooting paper at long range to prove or disprove the effectiveness of a reloading practice or piece of equipment.
Re: rcbs seating die causing run out?
I was under the impression that the forster press allows for movement along the xy plane on both the die and shell holder allowing them to perfectly align. This takes one factors out of the equation for perfect ammo.
I was under the impression that the forster press allows for movement along the xy plane on both the die and shell holder allowing them to perfectly align. This takes one factors out of the equation for perfect ammo.
Re: rcbs seating die causing run out?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Libilaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was under the impression that the forster press allows for movement along the xy plane on both the die and shell holder allowing them to perfectly align. This takes one factors out of the equation for perfect ammo. </div></div>
Yes the Co-Ax allows for some movement or float between the ram and the die as part of the design. But it is the alignment of the components within the die that is important not the press ram and die. If you are using conventional dies you are limiting your case concentricity because the dies are not allowing any float internally which is where all of the case forming and bullet seating occurs.
You do not need a Co-Ax to get the same floating feature if you float Redding bushing dies in a conventional single stage press or in my case a Dillon 550 press. All of the Redding sliding sleeve dies allow you to have plenty of self aligning movement within their bushing sizers and Competition bullet seaters. The float is designed into the bushing and seaters within the die body.
I suggest floating Redding body and full length sizing dies using the O-ring trick for maximum concentricity but the bushing dies and seaters do not need to be floating. As I have posted previously I use a UniqueTEK modified clamping Whidden CnC floating toolhead in my Dillon 550 and I normally see 0.000"-0.0015" TIR on no turn brass. Trust me if I can do it anybody can. Just ask Clark.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Libilaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was under the impression that the forster press allows for movement along the xy plane on both the die and shell holder allowing them to perfectly align. This takes one factors out of the equation for perfect ammo. </div></div>
Yes the Co-Ax allows for some movement or float between the ram and the die as part of the design. But it is the alignment of the components within the die that is important not the press ram and die. If you are using conventional dies you are limiting your case concentricity because the dies are not allowing any float internally which is where all of the case forming and bullet seating occurs.
You do not need a Co-Ax to get the same floating feature if you float Redding bushing dies in a conventional single stage press or in my case a Dillon 550 press. All of the Redding sliding sleeve dies allow you to have plenty of self aligning movement within their bushing sizers and Competition bullet seaters. The float is designed into the bushing and seaters within the die body.
I suggest floating Redding body and full length sizing dies using the O-ring trick for maximum concentricity but the bushing dies and seaters do not need to be floating. As I have posted previously I use a UniqueTEK modified clamping Whidden CnC floating toolhead in my Dillon 550 and I normally see 0.000"-0.0015" TIR on no turn brass. Trust me if I can do it anybody can. Just ask Clark.
Re: rcbs seating die causing run out?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your test would prove nothing about accuracy rituals.
I am running out of patients for straightening out your shaggy dog posts. </div></div>
So now you're a doctor?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your test would prove nothing about accuracy rituals.
I am running out of patients for straightening out your shaggy dog posts. </div></div>
So now you're a doctor?
Similar threads
