Reading groups?

[Zack_va248]

I know three shot groups isn’t the best but I was zeroing a new optic and wanted a greater sample size on groups and had minimal ammo. Going to start doing the SH dot drill for practice but wanted to ask those on here for advice how to read the groups to help figure what fundamentals need addressed most. Shot at 100yds on hornady 140g eldm’s.

 

[308pirate]

It's extremely difficult to get any meaningful information from shots on target until one learns to call the shots.

One can't learn to call their shots from reading the internet. I mean, you can read about what one is supposed to see through the sights to call a shot but there's a big gap between reading about it and training your eyes to see what you need to see. The gap can only be closed with trigger time.

 

[Zack_va248]

It's extremely difficult to get any meaningful information from shots on target until one learns to call the shots.

One can't learn to call their shots from reading the internet. I mean, you can read about what one is supposed to see through the sights to call a shot but there's a big gap between reading about it and training your eyes to see what you need to see. The gap can only be closed with trigger time.

I was focusing on that as well, I do remember pulling the shot on the second group and seeing the reticle slightly low left when the shot broke. I don't always get a perfect call but generally I know when it felt correct. Whether feeling correct and being correct are the same? I feel like it. I think I need to film myself as well to verify my live trigger press is the same as my dry fire press. The dry fire press translates to a nice stable reticle free of movement at shotbreak. I'm seeing about a mil give or take a few tenths of movement in the reticle through recoil. From what I've seen on watching experienced shooters through phoneskopes this seems like a good indicator of proper recoil management. Further when shooting distance I can spot my impacts no issue. Inside 300 is pretty tough but 300 and out I can call my misses and confirm by watching the impact.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Assuming you are zero’d pretty center on the yellow dot.

Top left: too much trigger finger. Not breaking at bottom respiratory pause

Top right: too much trigger again

Bottom left: closer to proper fundamentals

Bottom right: not breaking at bottom of respiratory pause


Generally speaking, vertical is breathing and horizontal is trigger

But you can also get vertical from improper/non consistent recoil management.

You’d need someone watching your fundamentals to accurately assess groups.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Middle also trigger

 

[Zack_va248]

Assuming you are zero’d pretty center on the yellow dot.

Top left: too much trigger finger. Not breaking at bottom respiratory pause

Top right: too much trigger again

Bottom left: closer to proper fundamentals

Bottom right: not breaking at bottom of respiratory pause


Generally speaking, vertical is breathing and horizontal is trigger

But you can also get vertical from improper/non consistent recoil management.

You’d need someone watching your fundamentals to accurately assess groups.

I'm using an eotech vudu so I'm caught between clicks to "perfectly" center up the group on the yellow but it's damned close. Appreciate the input. I filmed myself dry firing and while it felt consistent, I noticed slight variations in my firing hand position mostly with my thumb. I'm talking very slight, but I certainly can see my groups can and should improve. We can always get better, I just want to be in pursuit of the correct things. Hard to troubleshoot when you can't identify what's wrong. I'll keep after the dry fire and start marrying my trigger finger as I always do but putting emphasis on my thumb being in the exact same position every time. I think the consistency is whats affecting my shots and not so much where the thumb comes to rest.

 

[Zack_va248]

Here’s the first page of groups where I started with a clean barrel that needed fouled and also was only bore sighted. The second page posted previously was trying to get the groups as tight as possible to get the zero as refined as I can.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I'm using an eotech vudu so I'm caught between clicks to "perfectly" center up the group on the yellow but it's damned close. Appreciate the input. I filmed myself dry firing and while it felt consistent, I noticed slight variations in my firing hand position mostly with my thumb. I'm talking very slight, but I certainly can see my groups can and should improve. We can always get better, I just want to be in pursuit of the correct things. Hard to troubleshoot when you can't identify what's wrong. I'll keep after the dry fire and start marrying my trigger finger as I always do but putting emphasis on my thumb being in the exact same position every time. I think the consistency is whats affecting my shots and not so much where the thumb comes to rest.

As long as you’re getting a 90deg straight back trigger press, thumb position doesn’t matter (assuming you are not applying any pressure with thumb)

Your thumb should be influencing the rifle so little that you could cut it off and not see a difference.