Night Vision Realistic accuracy expectations with a thermal

[Fair chase]

I’m just getting into the world of thermal picking up a Iray bolt TH50c v2.
Man it’s totally different from regular scope .
So I’m wondering if my rifle with day time optic will hold 1/2” moa what can I expect with my thermal ?

 

[CoryT]

Set your day scope on 3x and shoot a group. Given that the thermal will have somewhat more trouble with a fine point to aim on, you will be a bit less precise than the 3x day sight. That said, you will be "minute of critter" at all ranges at which you can actually identify a target.

 

[Fair chase]

Set your day scope on 3x and shoot a group. Given that the thermal will have somewhat more trouble with a fine point to aim on, you will be a bit less precise than the 3x day sight. That said, you will be "minute of critter" at all ranges at which you can actually identify a target.

Well stated. My aging eyes seem to require high magnification and crystal clear optics to shoot sub moa anymore.
Ive probably got a 40 year old 3x tasco in a junk bin that would be a more even test.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

when you require high magnification to shoot little groups its typically because you focus on the wrong thing while shooting. thermal or night vision limits the information into your eye. set your diopter/reticle crystal clear and focus on it. youll be able to shoot moa or less with a thermal as well.

 

[diggler1833]

Your field shooting positional capabilities will impact your accuracy more.

In my case I'm frequently running my fat, old ass 5-600 yards to get ahead of the pigs/coyotes...and then shooting from a crappy tripod. Add to that, the relatively common occurrence of uneven ground that you're standing on in the dark (or maybe you're sliding around in a cow patty).

When I do load development with different bullets that I'm testing on game, I'm happy with 1.5 MOA accuracy...because I'll never shoot better in the field conditions that I listed above. However, I frequently get better than that (around MOA) depending on the particular rifle I'm using when I'm shooting it from a rest in my shop to verify zero.

****

Now, many thermals have a digital zoom feature that'll allow you to increase your magnification (at the cost of resolution). You can get fairly precise though in your aiming point.

Bottom line through of all my rambling: If you have a half-minute load already for your rifle, then you shouldn't be much worse than that with your thermal from a good rest.

 

[FuhQ]

I dialed my AGM Rattler TS50-640 thermal in at 100 well-enough to hit dead-on with no issues at 200 on my 6mm ARC. Precision is precision, just takes patience and depends on how much ammo you're willing to shoot to really dial it in. I handload for everything, so it's not a big deal for me to blow through 50 rounds at the range to truly dial something in. It didn't take that much with a spotter watching my shots and giving me impact offset from desired zero. I then converted the inches over to the digital OLED display's X/Y grid adjustment size, and got it pretty much dead-ass on. The manufacturer should be able to tell you that each number on the X/Y adjustment is equivalent to in MOA or MIL and you can extrapolate from there.

 

[ss go devil]

1 MOA would be expected and very doable. Remember most units still have a digital zoom (like 3.5 base mag with 4x zoom to end up 14x). Also when sighting in use a the smallest handwarmer for your aiming point. The increments of the x and y adjustment for sighting in can be coarse sometimes with thermals (i.e. each click is 1/2" to 1") depending on unit. I've been running a thermal for 5 years and this has been my experience, its meant to be minute of animal not bench rest shooting. Hope this is helpful.

 

[FuhQ]

Now, many thermals have a digital zoom feature that'll allow you to increase your magnification (at the cost of resolution). You can get fairly precise though in your aiming point.

My Rattler, the more you zoom in, the finer the adjustment on the X/Y axis allows. At 1x (2.5x) magnification it is a full value 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, etc... But about halfway through the magnification range it drops down to 0.1 adjustments... And at full mag it allows adjustment in the 0.01 adjustments. So, you can really dial it in at max mag, if you can see your POA well enough through the pixelation.

 

[Euro.Connor]

I’m just getting into the world of thermal picking up a Iray bolt TH50c v2.
Man it’s totally different from regular scope .
So I’m wondering if my rifle with day time optic will hold 1/2” moa what can I expect with my thermal ?

I have the Hunter 60 on my 6arc, and its shooting .5MOA.
From what I have seen, a huge factor depends on the target. I would wrap a Battery in foil to short it, and shoot at the negative or positive end. That way, you have a smaller point of aim, making your grouping more consistent (Best way I have found). Shooting at something larger, such as a handwarmer, has never worked for me. Aim small, miss small

If you want to shoot thermal well, It will truly come down to practice. I always shoot off a tripod after zero, as that is how I shoot in the field.

Connor

 

[diggler1833]

My Rattler, the more you zoom in, the finer the adjustment on the X/Y axis allows. At 1x (2.5x) magnification it is a full value 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, etc... But about halfway through the magnification range it drops down to 0.1 adjustments... And at full mag it allows adjustment in the 0.01 adjustments. So, you can really dial it in at max mag, if you can see your POA well enough through the pixelation.

Same with all Pulsars. Each adjustment on the X/Y axis becomes much finer as you zoom in. I think that's probably the case with most, but my experience ends with Pulsar and Sightmark.

At some point the resolution degradation from digitally zooming just about washes out the benefit of finer adjustability with the higher magnification...especially if you're shooting at an artificially heated object like a hot hands against a target.

 

[264win]

Just a quick thought since target choice came up, tin foil on a plain backer works great during daylight hours. You can fold it into any shape or size needed.

 

[wigwamitus]

... if my rifle with day time optic will hold 1/2” moa what can I expect with my thermal ?

Nothing special, rem700 SA, criterion 22" medium profile, NF Atacr 4-16 t3, LWTS-LR thermal clipon, fgmm 175gr, RRS tripod with anvil-30 head.

100yds, 8x on day scope, DRT thermal target, day time - I'd never shot a DRT target, and hardly ever shoot in the day time with thermal. You can see the "hood" over the top to shield out the glare. Also, note the LWTS-LR has a grainy image, that's true at all magnifications. It doesn't help with PID, but this thermal's collimation is DOBA.

First 3rd group , at the top, 7/16" (1 bullet when in same hole as another, at the very top)
Second 3rd group, at the right, 9/16"
Avg group size 8/16" = 0.500 IPHY = 0.478 MOA

==
Summary, if you can do it with the day scope, you can do it with the thermal. The main issue is wind calls, as you won't have as many visual clues at night.

 

[kirsch]

HVAC tape is your friend. Aim small, miss small. Things that heat up, tend to bloom making it harder to find a small aiming point.

For the image below I was conducting a test of the accuracy of the Super Yoter 50 LRF. When testing thermals, I take 1 shot at base mag, 1 at 50% max zoom, and another at 100% max zoom. Next, I go back to base magnification and I NUC the scope and take a shot, and then I take a shot using PIP. The next step is to turn the unit off and turn it back on and take 1 shot. My last test is to throw an athletic ice pack around a thermal for 15 minutes and take one last shot. This was my result after all of that. The grouping would most likely have been even tighter if I had just kept everything constant and fired 6 rounds consecutively.

Other tips on using HVAC tape or foil, is tilt the target back about 10° as it helps see the target better. If doing it at night, shining a light source on the target helps.

 

[shields shtr]

I have shot some pretty good groups with both my XRF and XG50. I usually just zero at the second power setting and seem to have good results doing that. Rarely am I much past the 2nd digital zoom setting on a thermal. My eyes go haywire when the image gets all grainy and weird.

and then shooting from a crappy tripod

I don't wanna derail...For the amount of shit you shoot you really deserve a nice tripod. I will just briefly say I use a Feisol 3472, an RRS Anvil, and a Bog Death grip clamped into that. I use the Bog for hogs since the shots are relatively close and you don't need to be that accurate. On further shots and coyotes up here my rifle is clamped into the Anvil head. Feisol's are made in Taiwan and they hate the Chinese more than we do, so there is that as well. I digress....

 

[Old Man with Gun]

The precision stays the same, the ease of seeing the target and centering the reticle is the challenge.
If you can setup a tiny target when sighting in you will get good results. If you are looking at a giant bloom from a hand warmer, not so much.
I use a laser with good results.
Sight in day scope, slave laser to day scope at known distance.
Add thermal clip on or switch to and slave it to the laser and verify.
Ease of sighting in a thermal depends on temperature, overcast, angle of sun on target, time of day etc. Sometimes it is hard to get a clear picture.
The laser trick let's you set the thermal at evening or night when images tend to be sharper.

 

[WhereNow&How]

The laser trick let's you set the thermal at evening or night when images tend to be sharper.

Exactly.

Saves you a lot of ammo as well.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

Exactly.

Saves you a lot of ammo as well.

If you get a laser that is both visible and IR, you can also use it with night vision or to point out targets to friends with night vision but not thermal.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Exactly.

I run Dbal A3's and some Dbal A2's. The ^ peak of a house is a great place to do initial setting up of a thermal because you have a hot defined surface that meets clear air. Put a sighted in Green Beam or IR directly on the Apex of the roof and dial your Thermal to overlay it.

Then shot confirm and slightly tweak if necessary on an actual paper target with tiny differential emissivity aiming point and you good to go.

I prefer a tiny cube of ice wrapped in tin foil and hung on tiny nail that's nailed into the target such that nothing drips on the target as the ice melts. This gives a very small defined thermal point to aim at.

 

[Charger442]

I'm shooting a GAP10 with my thermal clipon.

I always practice accuracy through volume.

 

[Hootiewho]

500 & 800 yards with 6mm ARC at the Clinton House Plantation using my drone as the spotter.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Some good shootin there.