Yea no doubt about that Jack. I don't know if you can tell from my posts but I have been a KAC whore for almost 25 years.
That's what caught me a little by surprise, but the explanation of:
I would much rather have an APR when pushing that distance with a .308. Im not the biggest fan of 16" large frames, and with the prevalence of newer small frame cartridges that are bridging the gap (6 arc for example), along with rounds like the 6 and 6.5 creed that IMO make the .308 an obsolete round for new purchases. Energy on target aside, first round impacts taking into account ease of shooting platform is what I am focusing on.
Gives a pretty good context of why you said that. But I gotta say, inside 800 yards you're not really leaving much on the table from a practical performance standpoint between a 20" and a 16" .308. They're both not quite 4 MPH guns at 700 yards, and while the 16" (with about 100ft/s lower MV) will require a little more elevation at 700, it's still significant enough of a drop even for the 20" that you can't get away with just winging it anyway. I came in 2nd in the 2017 PRS Gas Gun Series in Tactical Heavy with a suppressed 16" APC shooting 168gr FGMM primarily against folks with 20-24" barrels. I won't say that the 16" gun was a ballistic match of those other guns, and I had to work a little harder in some areas, but there were also advantages in mobility. Now, that said, I would ABSOLUTELY prefer a 6.5 Creedmoor in ANY barrel length over a .308 if I have a choice.
I have a special place in my heart for Knights and their contribution to the development of the small and large frame AR, along with various interfaces cannot be understated. But the pricing and availability has gotten ridiculous in the last 5-8 years. What was a solid 4-4.5K gun is now 6K. I get it there is inflation and gov procurement to contend with, but there are so many good modern competitors that are about 1/2 to 2/3 the price that I just can't justify dropping 6K on a an AR in an obsolete caliber. You can grab 2 Seekins SP10s for the less than a SR25, I would put them up to them head to head. The last couple SR15s I bought were 15-1800. Now they are twice that, and thats before the secondary market rape. For the old KAC price you can pick up a brand new Super Duty that other than the gas system and E3, compares very favorably, with arguably better trigger and rail system. And you can buy both of those guns all day. My last KAC backorder took almsot 3 years to fill (and yes I am on backorder lists for alot of other stuff). I can afford to pay retail prices for the stuff I want, but many can't justify it when comparing.
I'm right there with you on the inflated secondary market. The world will be a better place when they move at MAP rather than 1K over MSRP.
Not trying to turn this into a KAC bash, but this is what alot of the market is thinking, especially guys who have been in this game for a long time. I get that KAC doesn't really give a shit about commercial sales but when you see the KAC compound it makes you wonder how they cannot make enough premium boutique (which is what they are) guns to satisfy demand. It has to be one of if not the largest firearms manufacturing facility in North America. The low supply has made the secondary market insane.
Yup, totally get it. Really it comes down to commitments and production capacity. We are still recovering from 2019/2020. Lots of factors that go into that, but running lean manufacturing requires a constant and consistent supply of raw material and needed purchased items, and when that gets disturbed it causes ripples that turn into tidal waves. Combine that with some contracts and government commitments and you rapidly find yourself in a position where you are between a rock and a hard place, and the rock is holding back a volcano.
I know that when I come in on something like this it is going to result in people wanting to share their opinions on how f**ked up the situation is. I know that I am going to take heat, but it's no secret that I'm a member here so if I see something being thrown out there I'm going to say something (unless it's already degenerated past a reasonable point). I apologize to any OP that has had their thread derailed due to my participation. I try to avoid continuous involvement unless the OP is directly interacting.
While we do indeed have a large shop and production capacity, we also have a broad product range we have to cover; from M4 RAS to PVS-30 components, Mk 11 gas blocks to KS-1 selector drums, and NT4 suppressors to LAMG systems. We hold somewhere around 700 active NSNs. I wish I could devote all production to the current and near-future product lines, but we are inevitably (and in many cases involuntarily) tied to legacy products that consume production capacity.
Its like Pappy Van Winkle. $120 retail price. Worth every penny. Might even be willing to pay a little more. Secondary market is $1500-2200. Abosolutley insane due to scarcity and marketing. Even if I can afford it, I can get similar or better products for a fraction of the price today.
I have made this exact comparison in many discussions. Diminishing returns is a reality, and when all factors of performance and weight are combined, it generally becomes understandable why the MAP price-point of SR-25s is where it is, but that does not mean that everyone is willing to part with that much money to own one (even before the crazy secondary market price). All comes down to what the customer wants.
