Rear bag selection question

[Dildobaggins]

I'm sure this dead horse has been beaten many a time so my apologies.

I got a protecktor rabbit ear bag for a front rest I bought and it works great, but shooting prone with this thing is a pain in the nuts. Looking for a bag strictly for static shooting off a bench and prone and load development. Looking at the precision underground elr 3D bag. For those that have them, can it be adjusted by squeezing if I need to go up or down a little? Any other suggestions on others? I just got an atlas cal bipod, and I'd like to take advantage of this thing with a better rear bag.

 

[stanley_white]

This is worth consideration.

I bought one, and love it.

This bag, for me, seems less about squeezing for elevation and more about squeezing to lock the rifle in place, which it does magically.

The Taylor was Here Rear Bag

Follow Sniper's Hide and pick up the latest information on all things precision rifle related. Sniper's Hide Training is for the serious tactical marksman.

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-Stan

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I'm sure this dead horse has been beaten many a time so my apologies.

I got a protecktor rabbit ear bag for a front rest I bought and it works great, but shooting prone with this thing is a pain in the nuts. Looking for a bag strictly for static shooting off a bench and prone and load development. Looking at the precision underground elr 3D bag. For those that have them, can it be adjusted by squeezing if I need to go up or down a little? Any other suggestions on others? I just got an atlas cal bipod, and I'd like to take advantage of this thing with a better rear bag.

I love my PU bags. I have 2 amd love em. I find myself using the smaller one more especially in prone. The rabbit ear bags are just not for the type of shooting we normally do with bipod though so you are going to need some kind if rear bag and the PU ones are great. Smaller is typically better for prone

 

[Rob01]

You could make your own as well if you felt like it. Been using my own for years. Take a sock and fill it to the size needed with poly pellets aka doll fill found at any arts and craft store or walmart and what a lot of commercial bags are filled with. Then cut sock, fold over and sew it shut. You don't have to be a top seamstress to do it. Then put it in another sock with sewn part in first and then cut and sew again. Done. I add a piece of 550 cord as I like to be able to grab it or attach it to the rifle for matches and I put a little shoe goo over threads to protect them during harder use but you don't have to. Not pretty but works as good as anything out there and costs about $8-10 to make.

 

[Dildobaggins]

I love my PU bags. I have 2 amd love em. I find myself using the smaller one more especially in prone. The rabbit ear bags are just not for the type of shooting we normally do with bipod though so you are going to need some kind if rear bag and the PU ones are great. Smaller is typically better for prone

Awesome! Do you have the elr 3d bag?

 

[Ichi]

One thing worth noting on the light fill that Precision Underground uses in some of their rear bags is that the light fill can break down over time. Once the fill breaks down, the bag is still useable. But if the seams are not sealed, you will get a fine chalky power on your hands.

My ELR rear bag is over 2 years old and this issue may have already been addressed...

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Awesome! Do you have the elr 3d bag?

I don't think I have that one. I have the mini and whatever one they added the extra strap to (that was something I asked them to do and they ended up doing it on the others which is how I know that's the one)

 

[Lowlight]

Rear bags matter, nobody should tell you otherwise. We teach a basic class like no other I have seen, and I have seen a lot and we watch shooters. What happens at the back of the rifle is absolutely magnified at the muzzle, physics.

You need a bag with the right fill to support the recoil of the rifle and not move out of the way. Now there are ways to make sure it won't move out of the way, you need to be able to get your hand around it to support and squeeze it. Some bags are too wide to properly hold. This cause the recoil to settle the bag, which causes a vertical group down range or if it moves a bit to the side it will just open up the group with a flyer, or two.

The rear of the rifle and the bag both need to be supported.

I think a lot of bags have grown to high in price. That is not necessarily their fault, it was the market around them that accepted $160+ bag costs. When the other sand bags are over a $100, the rear bag people want to get paid too. That sucks for us, because it means people will only want to buy one bag, and that usually means a Game Changer.

We all understand compromise, and trust me when I say, a Game Changer is a compromise in the back. We currently have 3 sets of bags, a Rear Bag, a Front Rest and Support Pillow, right. Now we have variation of each, but they all can be broken down into these 3. From there how and when we use them is a function of that designation. If you use a front rest in the rear bag position, you have created a compromise. Most of the time, those compromises are fine, but there are other times they are not, and these are most important times to support the rear of the rifle.

Zeroing,
Doping the Rifle to Distance

Outside of those two actions we can absolutely compromise, but if you do during those two things, and still choose to compromise, I guarantee you there is a hiccup in your data that will appear later when you go to shoot. So rear bags are important to make sure the size, and fill support you and the back of the rifle.

Not too wide, a heavier fill is best, and double to triple stitching at the seams.

 

[Baron23]

I'm sure this dead horse has been beaten many a time so my apologies.

I got a protecktor rabbit ear bag for a front rest I bought and it works great, but shooting prone with this thing is a pain in the nuts. Looking for a bag strictly for static shooting off a bench and prone and load development. Looking at the precision underground elr 3D bag. For those that have them, can it be adjusted by squeezing if I need to go up or down a little? Any other suggestions on others? I just got an atlas cal bipod, and I'd like to take advantage of this thing with a better rear bag.

I have the ELR 3-D and unless you can palm a basketball then no, it will be difficult to wrap your hand around it properly…particularly if you like to also pinch the stock/bag rider w thumb and index finger.

I also have PU ELR Pro and even w my small hands I can manage this bag.

I also have (swear these bags reproduce in the middle of the night! Lol) SSgt Taylor’s (@Enough Said ) bag which also works very well in this regard. I used the Taylor for an entire 4 day clinic with these guys and didn’t feel the need to change bags and I had a few w me.

I would rec the ELR Pro or Marc Taylor’s bag. Either one, in my limited opinion.

Oh, and I can certainly attest to what @lowlight was talking about. It was later in the day after 2 or 3 days of shooting in his and Marc’s PA clinic and I was tired and getting a bit lazy (hey, I’m getting to be an old fart and I’m entitled! Haha). Frank asked if he could shoot my rifle and of course I said yes.

We dialed up my dope on the scope….I think it was 800 yds but it might have been 600…but I think 800. Frank lays some in right on the water line. My dope was solid.

I drop down, same dope, and I’m just over the target to the high side…very consistent POI....but high every time...WTF, over?

In my laziness and fatigue I was letting the bag angle back on recoil thus raising the muzzle and shooting high. This was pointed out to me by Marc/Frank, I tightened up my act on the rear bag to keep it vertical thru the shot, and suddenly I too was on the waterline with the same dope.

A good practical lesson I won’t soon forget. Experience…you can’t buy it but you will pay for it.

Cheers

 

[Enough Said]

The Answer solves problems you didn't even know you had.
:-]]

 

[Precision Underground]

I'm sure this dead horse has been beaten many a time so my apologies.

I got a protecktor rabbit ear bag for a front rest I bought and it works great, but shooting prone with this thing is a pain in the nuts. Looking for a bag strictly for static shooting off a bench and prone and load development. Looking at the precision underground elr 3D bag. For those that have them, can it be adjusted by squeezing if I need to go up or down a little? Any other suggestions on others? I just got an atlas cal bipod, and I'd like to take advantage of this thing with a better rear bag.

We have what you seek. You can adjust the 3D for sure. You’re not going to wrap your hand around it but you don’t have to. All it takes is lifting a little pressure off the bag and then working the fill up a bit before settling the stock back in. I tell people to never squeeze the stock up to bring POA down, no matter what bag you use. Lift the stock a very small amount, work the bag up some and add a little grip pressure, then settle back in. So you’re always settling the stock down and the POI up. Doing this will teach you a lot about a true NPA which is the master key to it all. Using a hard, bench rest type bag can help you shoot better on a given day but it’s not going to help you become a better shooter.

So you can adjust the 3d but if you want something more traditional I’d recommend the Rx or the F1 ( or the Mini if you’re like me and set up lower than what is typical). Don’t stress too hard because if you get something and aren’t quite happy with let us know and we’ll adjust it or swap it

 

[neeltburn]

What works for you may not work the same for everyone else. My choice is the Schmediun Game Changer heavy fill waved canvas. It has became the only bag I use. That said, I have the a couple SAP bags including the solo sack which is also I bag I really like. It comes down to what you train with and what works for you. If I was only shooting off the bench then I would prolly standardize on the solo sack. That said I have invested a lot of $$ in support gear to find what really works for me.

 

[Dildobaggins]

We have what you seek. You can adjust the 3D for sure. You’re not going to wrap your hand around it but you don’t have to. All it takes is lifting a little pressure off the bag and then working the fill up a bit before settling the stock back in. I tell people to never squeeze the stock up to bring POA down, no matter what bag you use. Lift the stock a very small amount, work the bag up some and add a little grip pressure, then settle back in. So you’re always settling the stock down and the POI up. Doing this will teach you a lot about a true NPA which is the master key to it all. Using a hard, bench rest type bag can help you shoot better on a given day but it’s not going to help you become a better shooter.

So you can adjust the 3d but if you want something more traditional I’d recommend the Rx or the F1 ( or the Mini if you’re like me and set up lower than what is typical). Don’t stress too hard because if you get something and aren’t quite happy with let us know and we’ll adjust it or swap it

Sold! Haha thank you man. Much appreciated!

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

What works for you may not work the same for everyone else. My choice is the Schmediun Game Changer heavy fill waved canvas. It has became the only bag I use. That said, I have the a couple SAP bags including the solo sack which is also I bag I really like. It comes down to what you train with and what works for you. If I was only shooting off the bench then I would prolly standardize on the solo sack. That said I have invested a lot of $$ in support gear to find what really works for me.

Same deal. I have a whole box of bags and rearbags from the last 20 years of shooting. I just use whatever prop bag (Pint Sized heavy Sand or Schmedium with Glass beads) as a rear. Its MUCH more solid than the PU or other dedicated rear bags I have. This is for load dev, zeroing and shooting prone stages. I don't see a need to bring a second bag to a match when the GC does everything I need it to.

Now if I was shooting ELR or Benchrest or even the 1 mile paper comps, I would probably use a Phenoix with ABR and Protecktor bag just to ensure recoil is coming strait back.

I am firmly of the belief for like 98% of the shooting people do here, a schmedium game changer is a 99% solution. If you can't make that work its a software, not a hardware problem IMO.

 

[Lowlight]

I have seen the game changers bite people they are too big, and block the ability at times to properly manipulate correctly every time.

The pint size does work, but at the Guardian I saw with the big swings, the bags move out of shape and it’s cost people points, we even had a discussion when it happened as the shooter got tangled in moving. So I’d say it’s not. And because they use different fills it’s inconsistent

Fills matter, but a pint size does work the best of the front rests

Every shooter at the Kraft classes used just a GC and we saw lots of issues Not everyone manages the same

 

[Enough Said]

@Dildobaggins

Read and absorb this article and it will all come very clear to you. It's the perfect start-to-finish rear support explanation.

The Taylor was Here Rear Bag

Follow Sniper's Hide and pick up the latest information on all things precision rifle related. Sniper's Hide Training is for the serious tactical marksman.

www.snipershide.com

...Taylor

 

[pineoak]

I have seen the game changers bite people they are too big, and block the ability at times to properly manipulate correctly every time.

The pint size does work, but at the Guardian I saw with the big swings, the bags move out of shape

+1
I have a heavy fill pint size GC that I love in general as a GC bag or a quickie rear bag, but when used as a dedicated rear bag, the fill just isn't ever consistent. Due to the shape, the fill just moves around and there's no consistency in what I'm manipulating the rear WITH.

Can anyone share how the PU or Taylor rear bags compare with the TAB Gear small/heavy fill? It's my current rear bag and would appreciate any opinions contrasted with it.

 

[Lowlight]

This was the shirt, and here is the target

 

[Precision Underground]

+1
I have a heavy fill pint size GC that I love in general as a GC bag or a quickie rear bag, but when used as a dedicated rear bag, the fill just isn't ever consistent. Due to the shape, the fill just moves around and there's no consistency in what I'm manipulating the rear WITH.

Can anyone share how the PU or Taylor rear bags compare with the TAB Gear small/heavy fill? It's my current rear bag and would appreciate any opinions contrasted with it.

I’ve never felt the tab heavy fill but ours will feel somewhat like sand. It’s not as heavy/dense/dead as sand. If you’ve had the pleasure of having kids that like slime and stuff like that, imagine what kinetic sand would feel like inside of a bag and that would be close. It’s not as stiff as sand but it’s kind of “sticky” and holds its shape so you don’t have to fight it with your hand. We’ve got a money back guarantee so if you get it and don’t like it we’ll adjust it, swap it, or refund you (please let us know you need help in a reasonable amount of time).

Here’s a demo of how the fill reacts compared to a standard poly fill. Excuse the amateur video, we’re rookies and I swear we’re better at making bags than making videos lol.

 

[SanPatHogger]

View attachment 8038510

This was the shirt, and here is the target

Wrong hole

Advanced Marksmanship - Wind target - piano keys

I'm trying to get my local target fabricator to make up a wind piano key target. Anyone have a picture or design they could share of such a target? It's typically a horizontal bar on a stand, with (5) 2-3" wide by about 15-18" long slats of AR500 steel hanging from the bar close together...

www.snipershide.com

 

[YotaEer]

3D ELR or schmedium game changer have been the best for my needs.

 

[Sblzrd65]

I have seen the game changers bite people they are too big, and block the ability at times to properly manipulate correctly every time.

The pint size does work, but at the Guardian I saw with the big swings, the bags move out of shape and it’s cost people points, we even had a discussion when it happened as the shooter got tangled in moving. So I’d say it’s not. And because they use different fills it’s inconsistent

Fills matter, but a pint size does work the best of the front rests

Every shooter at the Kraft classes used just a GC and we saw lots of issues Not everyone manages the same

This happened to me recently. Was trying out a mini waxed (heavy fill) and it was a bit too bulky and ungainly in. the back. It mostly worked, but I know that I need something smaller for the back now.

 

[stanley_white]

To me, a Dedicated Rear Bag is primarily designed to be used as a rear bag, and is used when zeroing, data gathering, and other tasks that lack time, distance, or positional constraints.

A Compromise Rear Bag is primarily designed to not be used as a rear bag, likely designed for use in a constrained environment, and if used as a rear bag, represents a compromise due to its design.

-Stan

 

[stanley_white]

TAB Gear Large Rear Bag compared to Taylor Was Here rear bag.

-Stan