Using a brake or other adapter to mount a suppressor seems to add complexity to the system. I'm looking to get my first suppressor and looking for advice. I'm strongly considering the Dead Air Nomad, and it would mostly live on my RPR in 6.5 creedmoor, though it may seem some use on my 6.5 Grendel AR, and "could" see use on my 300 blackout (I'm contemplating a dedicated suppressor for this gun). So, why not direct thread? Thanks!
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Suppressors Reasons NOT to direct thread?
- Thread starter hlee
- Start date
Interested in some opinions on this too..looking at a few direct thread options as I also plan to keep it mostly on one rifle....I’ve been eyeballing the dead air sandman ti
I have the dead air sandman ti and really like it so far. I like the direct thread but I keep it on one rifle only.
Main reasons,
You want to use it on guns with different threads
You want a secondary lock
You want a more secure lock than a square shoulder
Or, better control of threads and better materials. A dlc coated 17-4 brake is much more durable than rifle barrels, and when the manufacturer controls both sides of the interface, you won't have any issues. Way too many cases of cans stuck on oversized threads, or cans cross threaded on too small threads. A properly designed brake is also much harder to cross thread.
Cons, they cost more, and they can be out of stock depending on the company.
You want to use it on guns with different threads
You want a secondary lock
You want a more secure lock than a square shoulder
Or, better control of threads and better materials. A dlc coated 17-4 brake is much more durable than rifle barrels, and when the manufacturer controls both sides of the interface, you won't have any issues. Way too many cases of cans stuck on oversized threads, or cans cross threaded on too small threads. A properly designed brake is also much harder to cross thread.
Cons, they cost more, and they can be out of stock depending on the company.
I have been running a Dead Air Sandman Ti for about 2 years now and haven't regretted going direct thread. I switch it back and forth between 4 rifles and I love the repeatability of the system (also not having to buy specific muzzle devices for each host).
If I was buying now I would probably lean towards the Nomad just for reduced length. I don't think it will quite meter as well as the Ti but probably close enough. Reports are that the Nomad has great tone also.
If I was buying now I would probably lean towards the Nomad just for reduced length. I don't think it will quite meter as well as the Ti but probably close enough. Reports are that the Nomad has great tone also.
Running a brake suppressor mount is usually said to help with the muzzle blast and help preserve the blast baffle a bit longer.
I have an ACC 300TM, which is a direct thread. Great sounding can, but you have to keep an eye on it because it will back off after a bit of firing. I really like the way it sounds on my Beanland 16.5" 308.
I have a Liberty Sovereign, that like the Nomad can be run either direct thread or QD with a brake or flash hider. I've been running it direct thread on everything with both the 1/2x28 and 5/8x24 DT modules. I can swap out the modules at will to fit any of my rifles, so DT is not at all restricting. I was concerned that the DT can might come loose on my hunting rifles while hiking around, but they stayed tight over many tens of miles hiking this year (30 miles last weekend alone). I do think that the relatively large diameter of the shoulder on my rifles helps the cans stay snug.
I honestly think that the Nomad is one of the most interesting .30 cal cans out right now.... The last thing I need is another .30 cal can, but I'm saving up for a Nomad.
I honestly think that the Nomad is one of the most interesting .30 cal cans out right now.... The last thing I need is another .30 cal can, but I'm saving up for a Nomad.
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I run an Omega with the related muzzle brake, works well for me. I swap it between a 300WM, 6.5CM, 5.56, and all of them are very accurate. Never had any trouble with mis-alignment or anything else.
I have a couple guns with direct thread and a couple with flash hider suppressor mounts (Mack Bros). I used their brake mount initially but occasionally shoot without the can and those brakes are annoying bast**ds. That was the reasons for the switch to the flash hider mount. I am not shooting heavy recoiling calibers so no brake is not a big deal. I like both, but the lighter weight of no mount is nice on the hunting guns.
Didn’t lots of people have issues with the early 45 tooth locking systems coming loose? In my eyes direct thread takes other variables out of the equation that could potentially fail. I thread my own barrels so I know exactly what the threads are going to be.
I run a dead air sandman ti direct thread. It moves around between 5 barrels at any given time. There is never any need to re-zero any of my guns. If your just shooting bolts, then go direct. It's very easy that way. I have 2 TB's in jail that have the cb mount on them. Not sure how much I am going to like them, but I thought I would give it a try.
I really just wanted a 6.5 can, and most of the guys on here seem to love them. There isn't really anything wrong with dead air. I love mine.
I really just wanted a 6.5 can, and most of the guys on here seem to love them. There isn't really anything wrong with dead air. I love mine.
If you're going to be using the suppressor on multiple hosts I'd go with a QD suppressor. Dead Air, Rugged, etc.
If it's going to be dedicated to one gun I'd go with a direct thread, but I'd only buy a direct thread suppressor that has wrench flats. Q Nelson and Full Nelson, Dead Air Nomad, something like that. You need to be able to install the suppressor with a torque wrench for repeatability and to ensure you have the proper install torque to insure it doesn't loosen.
You don't want to be tightening or removing a suppressor with a strap wrench.
If it's going to be dedicated to one gun I'd go with a direct thread, but I'd only buy a direct thread suppressor that has wrench flats. Q Nelson and Full Nelson, Dead Air Nomad, something like that. You need to be able to install the suppressor with a torque wrench for repeatability and to ensure you have the proper install torque to insure it doesn't loosen.
You don't want to be tightening or removing a suppressor with a strap wrench.
One thing thats worth keeping in mind, and it's a very likely thing to happen....and it sucks dick when it does....when they stop making the brakes. Buy a bunch of em when they are available and stock up. A good smith can always cut threads but they can't make a specific brake for your can 5 or 10 years down the road.
As someone who switches his can around between barrels all the time. I totally disagree with the above. Just give it a quick snap with your hands that last quarter turn and you will not have any problems. I do always recheck during a match tho.
I will say that having to buy brakes gets very pricey if you have lots of barrels to put them on.
I will say that having to buy brakes gets very pricey if you have lots of barrels to put them on.
I mostly use direct thread, because it saves weight ... and weight saved out at the front is critical do to the "leverage" such weight has on your support arm if shooting standing unsupported.
But I am putting together a "light .308" now, which I want to be handy when moving thru the woods and up and down creek banks etc. So plan to use break mount for that with an OMEGA. This will remove 6 inches from the length of the gun while moving and I will still be able to shoot if needed. I will have to get my DOPE for both with and without the suppressor on there. I could use a thread protector instead of the break, I'd probably loose it a lot and would need to keep a pocket full of thread protectors with me when out in the field. So planning on going with the break. Otherwise, I prefer direct mount as I just leave the suppressors on all the time except when cleaning.
... totally agree ... though I would add ... I turn it to the beginning of tight ... and then back off the quarter turn ... and then do the snap. that makes sure I am know where that last quarter turn is
But I am putting together a "light .308" now, which I want to be handy when moving thru the woods and up and down creek banks etc. So plan to use break mount for that with an OMEGA. This will remove 6 inches from the length of the gun while moving and I will still be able to shoot if needed. I will have to get my DOPE for both with and without the suppressor on there. I could use a thread protector instead of the break, I'd probably loose it a lot and would need to keep a pocket full of thread protectors with me when out in the field. So planning on going with the break. Otherwise, I prefer direct mount as I just leave the suppressors on all the time except when cleaning.
... totally agree ... though I would add ... I turn it to the beginning of tight ... and then back off the quarter turn ... and then do the snap. that makes sure I am know where that last quarter turn is
I have the Thunderbeast Ultra 7 in both direct thread and CB Brake models. In fact, I had Thunderbeast convert my first CB model to direct thread. The direct thread is 11.5 oz. Compared to 9.7 oz. for the CB model. However, the CB brake or flash hider adds weigh to the end of the rifle so it comes out close, with the direct thread being lighter overall because the insert for the direct thread is slightly lighter than the CB brake. For me, the advantage of direct thread, if any, is that you don't have to buy a CB brake (and time the ports of the brake) for each rifle.
Phil G
Phil G
I have a Thunderbeast Ultra 9. I went with the brake model because I like the idea of TBAC metal and threads to TBAC metal and threads. I also really like the shoulder on the brake that mates to the can. I never have an issue with it coming loose. The brake when I hunt or shoot without the can is sweet too.
You really don't, I haven't ever used a torque wrench on my DT suppressors, and they are very repeatable switching between multiple rifles during every range trip. Like the posters above said, I give it a good snap at the end of the last revolution. I've never seen the TBAC guys at my range using a torque wrench for can install either.
A taper mount like found on most TOMB brakes is better than a direct thread for keeping the can in place. The mechanical locks are better suited for door kickers than precision rifles as most if not all leak gas out the rear changing bullet speed shot to shot. Fine for a 100 yard zero but not optimal for long range performance.
A hand tight 90 degree shoulder direct thread will shoot loose. 20 ft lbs with a wrench and you don't have to worry about it shooting loose. That's all I'm saying. It it a must? No.
Nope just hand tight.
I put my 30-06 away after hunting season. I use my Ultra 9 on it. I then shot 1000+ rounds through the Ultra 9 with my .308 as well as a few hundred AR15 rounds.
After almost a year I pulled the 30-06 out of the safe, screwed the Ultra 9 back on and the zero was EXACTLY where it was when I parked it. No change at all. The can was heavier though, as I weigh it periodically to know when to clean it.
I have to say this really exceeded what I thought was any reason expectation.
I only have 2 cans that are qd. They were my first 2. All following cans are direct thread. If you have 15 different rifles, that’s not small chunk of change to get all those muzzle brakes.
Had tight for me also. Mine don’t come loose. Of course my barrels are hand tight too and that freaks a lot of guys out. I still manage to hit stuff
Had tight for me also. Mine don’t come loose. Of course my barrels are hand tight too and that freaks a lot of guys out. I still manage to hit stuff
I do hand tight, but I do crank it down. I have never had one come loose at all. I put a dab of spark plug anti-seize (the coppery looking stuff) on the threads and it comes off fine too.
Don't overthink it.
Don't overthink it.
I've used the same can for years, its never backed off or became loose. Its always been run on my bolt before it was recored for my AR, probably why I've never had that issue. That and all my barrels were 0.920-.940 at the muzzle and my smith was anal retentive about the threads fitting to the can.
I put a dab of Kroil on the threads and end of the barrel before each shooting. makes it easy to keep the business end of the barrel carbon free.
Been over 4 years and never once had this problem with multiple suppressors. Anti-seize, keep the threads clean and don't gorilla torque the can and no problem.
This is my go to as well since it has enough lubrication to reduce galling and it is one of the few products with a 1000+ degree temp rating. The only down side I've heard is some "range rumors" the copper stuff can react with some of the blueing salts(turns green), but I have never personally seen any evidence.
I use anti-seize since my first can in the 90's. Zero issues.
Saw a former moderator here stick a direct thread can, which I got loose, and now own, and with anti-seize never had any more problems with that can... or any of my direct thread cans.
Accuracy wise, properly mated direct threads have over the last 25 years, been the most accurate over qd.
The aac tooth debacles turned a lot of people off qd. The unavailability of surefire things and cost turned people off qd.
Since a number of qd debacles were discussed here pre-Scout, there have been a number of improvements in qd, and the accuracy has improved, but, the direct thread still holds the most accurate.
We just did a TB Ultra 7 dt, vs an Ultra 9 qd, and the 7 dt edged the 9 qd on a couple AI-T's... I can see me owning an Ultra 7 in the future...
We used QD for several reasons, safe/secure storage of the can in patrol cars/swat van, ability to remove when reissuing the weapon to non swat, replace when reversed, and leave can at dept when taking weapons home.
No zero shift was a requirement.
Then, in civilian life, being able to shoot canned up to hunting season, and having to remove then, some qd cans have huge and horrible zero shifts, where direct thread cans had none or very little. Now, we can hunt canned, so it doesnt matter on that now.
I haven't seen too many bad cans lately, but I've seen some not great qd attachments, like last gen Silencerco... they unlock a click and accuracy goes to shit... doesnt happen with DT harvester...
Ymmv
Saw a former moderator here stick a direct thread can, which I got loose, and now own, and with anti-seize never had any more problems with that can... or any of my direct thread cans.
Accuracy wise, properly mated direct threads have over the last 25 years, been the most accurate over qd.
The aac tooth debacles turned a lot of people off qd. The unavailability of surefire things and cost turned people off qd.
Since a number of qd debacles were discussed here pre-Scout, there have been a number of improvements in qd, and the accuracy has improved, but, the direct thread still holds the most accurate.
We just did a TB Ultra 7 dt, vs an Ultra 9 qd, and the 7 dt edged the 9 qd on a couple AI-T's... I can see me owning an Ultra 7 in the future...
We used QD for several reasons, safe/secure storage of the can in patrol cars/swat van, ability to remove when reissuing the weapon to non swat, replace when reversed, and leave can at dept when taking weapons home.
No zero shift was a requirement.
Then, in civilian life, being able to shoot canned up to hunting season, and having to remove then, some qd cans have huge and horrible zero shifts, where direct thread cans had none or very little. Now, we can hunt canned, so it doesnt matter on that now.
I haven't seen too many bad cans lately, but I've seen some not great qd attachments, like last gen Silencerco... they unlock a click and accuracy goes to shit... doesnt happen with DT harvester...
Ymmv
I bought my first can 4 or 5 years ago, it was a direct thread TBAC 9" .30 Once you shoot with a precision can, you don't want to shoot unsuppressed.
Since most people have more threaded rifles than cans, you find yourself moving the can about. (that leads to a second can). When you see how much easier a can threads on a break (mostly TBAC experience) , you buy brakes and Rocksett (thread lock) those to bbls.
Ultimately, a can is more difficult to have down than a rifle. If the can were to seize on the break, just remove it and soak it. If it seizes to a rifle, or gets cross-threaded wit the smaller threads, it's much bigger problem. Have seven TBac cans, the first two bought were direct threads.
Since most people have more threaded rifles than cans, you find yourself moving the can about. (that leads to a second can). When you see how much easier a can threads on a break (mostly TBAC experience) , you buy brakes and Rocksett (thread lock) those to bbls.
Ultimately, a can is more difficult to have down than a rifle. If the can were to seize on the break, just remove it and soak it. If it seizes to a rifle, or gets cross-threaded wit the smaller threads, it's much bigger problem. Have seven TBac cans, the first two bought were direct threads.
I had a direct thread TB9 and found that I needed to have TB change it to a muzzle brake mount. This allows me to use it on multiple rifles, as long as they are equipped with TB brakes.
Now I have a TB9 and TB7 that I use on several platforms (up to 300 WinMag).
Found that when I shot some subsonic rounds the last baffle on the TB9 was hit. Since I had the TB7 I still had a great can while the TB9 went back for repairs.
Now I have a TB9 and TB7 that I use on several platforms (up to 300 WinMag).
Found that when I shot some subsonic rounds the last baffle on the TB9 was hit. Since I had the TB7 I still had a great can while the TB9 went back for repairs.
As others have mentioned, one of the big advantages to using a TOMB-style mounting system is that you aren't locked in to a single thread diameter/pitch. I run the same can (SiCo Omega) on muzzles threaded anywhere from 1/2-28 to 5/8-24 without having to use any kind of thread adapter. Further, both sides of the suppressor-to-mount interface are controlled by the same company; as others have pointed out, this helps introduce a level of quality control (unless you're talking about AAC mounts, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish) to that interface. The locking functionality found in the SiCo ASR mounts is nice in that it eliminates concern that the can will come loose.
I have also run the TBAC and SAS taper-style mounts, which also work well, without the complexity of a mechanical locking system of some sort; the taper its self essentially serves as a conical wedge that provides a lot of surface contact (and therefore friction) between the can and the mount.
Really, the only cans that I shoot that are direct thread are my rimfire cans, and if you don't watch 'em, they can shoot loose.
Additionally, and I know that a lot of folks on this board hate 'em, but I run muzzle brakes on damn near every rifle I own... I don't see any need to prove my manliness by dealing with any more recoil than I must (yes, I know that this isn't the reason that people dislike muzzle brakes), but the long and short of it is that the vast majority of my shooting is done from a bench, so kicking up dust and debris isn't a problem (nearly all of my brakes are lateral-only, though).
I have also run the TBAC and SAS taper-style mounts, which also work well, without the complexity of a mechanical locking system of some sort; the taper its self essentially serves as a conical wedge that provides a lot of surface contact (and therefore friction) between the can and the mount.
Really, the only cans that I shoot that are direct thread are my rimfire cans, and if you don't watch 'em, they can shoot loose.
Additionally, and I know that a lot of folks on this board hate 'em, but I run muzzle brakes on damn near every rifle I own... I don't see any need to prove my manliness by dealing with any more recoil than I must (yes, I know that this isn't the reason that people dislike muzzle brakes), but the long and short of it is that the vast majority of my shooting is done from a bench, so kicking up dust and debris isn't a problem (nearly all of my brakes are lateral-only, though).
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So, I read all of the replies and vasilated back and forth about this for a while. I walked into Silencer Shop thinking I could buy a direct thread Nomad now and then add a Key-mo and adapter brakes later if I decided to go QD. I talked with the gentleman behind the counter about what I had and what I wanted to do. I walked out with a receipt for a thunder chicken and 2 Cherry bomb compensators. Thanks for all of the info and opinions. Now the wait...
I went QD w/ a Surefire can. I realize that TBAC arguably has the best can for bolt guns on the market. I like using a muzzle brake on my guns too. Even w/ out the can I’ve got the benefits of using the brake. This can was meant to be used in a utility role ranging from 5.56 to 300 WM.
I don’t care for DT at all. The fact that it has the potential to come loose & cause a potential baffle strike is too much headache. A few of my buddies have DT cans & I dig the QD much more. I like the confidence in knowing that once it’s secure it’s on there until I take it off. One buddy has a DT can that likes to work it’s way loose & it really turned me off to that method. I use a little FIREClean on the brake & while it locks up tight, it almost jumps off when I release the locking lever. I’ve had zero issues w/ lube getting all over the weapon or optic. So far I’ve had zero complaints w/ the QD mount.
I don’t care for DT at all. The fact that it has the potential to come loose & cause a potential baffle strike is too much headache. A few of my buddies have DT cans & I dig the QD much more. I like the confidence in knowing that once it’s secure it’s on there until I take it off. One buddy has a DT can that likes to work it’s way loose & it really turned me off to that method. I use a little FIREClean on the brake & while it locks up tight, it almost jumps off when I release the locking lever. I’ve had zero issues w/ lube getting all over the weapon or optic. So far I’ve had zero complaints w/ the QD mount.
I got my can with a QD mount. Primary reason being I can use it on multiple rifles easily. As my collection of suppressors grows I have considered switching a couple to DT to dedicate them to a particular rifle.
Besides the whole being able to switch it to other rifles argument and all, mounts provide a perfect mating surface for the suppressor. So even if your threads or face is a little off, the mount might be able to make up for some or all of that. It also provides a larger and more tapered mounting surface which provides a better seal and more stable mount.
IIRC TBAC actually recommends using the mounts, in part for this reason, vs. direct thread. Direct thread used to have a lot going for it, not so much anymore. There are finally excellent mounts out these days.
IIRC TBAC actually recommends using the mounts, in part for this reason, vs. direct thread. Direct thread used to have a lot going for it, not so much anymore. There are finally excellent mounts out these days.
The brake can't make up for an alignment problem, but in practice they do help considerably with muzzle thread problems.
There is a large range of quality of "QD" mounts on the market, with respect to repeatability and reliability. On the most repeatable end are the ones that are basically "thread on over muzzle brake" with a conical shoulder. On the other end are some of the clicky-style locking mounts that seem to always be off a click and have play.
There is a large range of quality of "QD" mounts on the market, with respect to repeatability and reliability. On the most repeatable end are the ones that are basically "thread on over muzzle brake" with a conical shoulder. On the other end are some of the clicky-style locking mounts that seem to always be off a click and have play.
I have an Omega 30 and went from ASR to DT to Area 419.
The ASR system has its limitations. The locking collar is annoying to deal with when hot, carbon builds up and makes manipulation more difficult, and the teeth wear down pretty quickly. POI shift was generally consistent from removal to replacement but I would put it in last place of the 3 options.
Direct thread is nice as long as the muzzle threads are concentric and you are mindful of how much torque you apply. I would say the biggest issue is removing a hot DT can from one gun and putting it on a cold gun... I can guarantee you will have a bitch of a time removing the can from the second gun, especially if allowed to cool. POI shift was consistent from removal/replacement, even with different amounts of torque applied. I would recommend this option but only after the 419 kit.
Finally, the 419 system is my favorite of the 3, and it’s not particularly close. It does not require much torque for the can to stay in place and POI is exactly the same from removal to replacement. Additionally, I’m able to swap from brake to can, back to brake without changing my zero. POI shifts by a tenth or two between in this case, but not enough to require a different zero. I have the universal adapters on all of my barrels, 2 Hellfire brakes and 2 cans with the adapter. No such issues with stuck mounts, inconsistency, or really anything for that matter. Just a really good design.
The ASR system has its limitations. The locking collar is annoying to deal with when hot, carbon builds up and makes manipulation more difficult, and the teeth wear down pretty quickly. POI shift was generally consistent from removal to replacement but I would put it in last place of the 3 options.
Direct thread is nice as long as the muzzle threads are concentric and you are mindful of how much torque you apply. I would say the biggest issue is removing a hot DT can from one gun and putting it on a cold gun... I can guarantee you will have a bitch of a time removing the can from the second gun, especially if allowed to cool. POI shift was consistent from removal/replacement, even with different amounts of torque applied. I would recommend this option but only after the 419 kit.
Finally, the 419 system is my favorite of the 3, and it’s not particularly close. It does not require much torque for the can to stay in place and POI is exactly the same from removal to replacement. Additionally, I’m able to swap from brake to can, back to brake without changing my zero. POI shifts by a tenth or two between in this case, but not enough to require a different zero. I have the universal adapters on all of my barrels, 2 Hellfire brakes and 2 cans with the adapter. No such issues with stuck mounts, inconsistency, or really anything for that matter. Just a really good design.
I have a SilencerCo Specwar 5.56 and 7.62 in jail right now. They are both QD using ASR mounts the ASR Flash hider to be specific. They are both dedicated to one gun a piece though a Colt LE6920 and a CZ 557 UCS. I’ve always used QD suppressors in the Army so naturally I went with a similar setup on my personal rifles. I can’t think of any reason a direct thread is a worse option though. Both should work sufficiently.
Ultra 7CB in .30 on ATF hold with the Area 419 adapter waiting on my shelf. Have a Hellfire on my 6.5cm Maten, .308 Maten, 260 Rem700 and 300wm Rem721. Looking forward to getting some good POI shift data. With and without brake for all rifles is negligible though.
