Recommnded Reading On American Democracy

[kospap]

well I guess you have heard about the economic situation here in Greece.
What may not be apparent is that the cituation is a product of a corrupted and a decaying political system...

in simple words we do not what to believe in, and who to vote anymore.

So,I would like to go back to the basics of modern democracies in search of an answer(?), and have a look at the american democracy of the 18th and 19th century...

Any recommended readings?

I have heard of Thoreau and at a certain time a book passed by a friends hands that was about the democracy (had that in the title)AND outdoors! It couldn;t be Kippling...

BTW it would be a added bonus if the books suggested would be downloadble in pdf....

 

[Ol' RD]

Re: Recommnded Reading On American Democracy

I would recommend two autobiographies, Ben Franklin, the real Thomas Jefferson. Also read the Federalist papers and I would also recommend Original Intent by David Barton. But I'm just a lil' right of Attila the Hun. LOL!

PS. Also George Washington's Sacred Fire by Peter Lillback

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Recommnded Reading On American Democracy

You may want to narrow your search further by researching details on the new and improved version of democracy known as "the Republic"! Sort of takes the mob quotient out of the mob element that has been seen to undermine democracies.

It requires a certain degree of participation and delayed gratification however. Thus similar imbalances where those indolent and willfully ignorant who become entitled to a living provided to them by the taxpayers or a maintained underclass (kept in that status for the purpose of ductile, permanent servility) create the conditions for its collapse. Much as you are witnessing in Greece and other unsustainable welfare states.

I believe it was a countryman of yours who wrote persuasivley on the subject: Plato

 

[Guest]

Re: Recommnded Reading On American Democracy

If it is economic strength you seek, then you should look to the East, not the West.
Our so-called wealth is nothing more than maxed out Chinese credit cards.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Recommnded Reading On American Democracy

Back before the dawning of the present "Loaf Ethic" we were characterized by our "work ethic". We delayed gratification, read voluminously, tolerated differing opinions, gave geneorusly at church (and other charities), paid our bills, provided for our families, managed to buy a few toys and still managed to save for our futures.

Once again love of money overtook the importance of the methods of earning it. Hence the demands and desires of even the least productive for a greater standard of living, regardless of who must pay for it, or how, over took the ethic of deriving it.

Following this path, eventually, ultimately, the toll becomes so absurdly high that sleazy or criminal acts as well as vices become encouraged due to the tax revenue that accrues to them.

This is tpically accompanied by demonization of one group of "parasites" while ignoring the legions of others. A current example being the current disdain for "Bankers" or "Wall Street" while inoring the disgusting greed and profligacy of the regular folks who saved nothing, borrowed excessively and thought it smart to buy absurdly overpriced, termite infested, shitholes in the greedy belief that they would be able to sell them to even more avaricious fools for twice (or more) than they paid.

When pyramid schemes become a nation's chief domestic product it isn't surprising to see decline follow.

The only hope we have is the resurgent productivity of the diminishing minority of people in this nation who can re-establish the belief in commerce. Preferably in a manner that doesn't require legions of ignorant low skilled dupes, scam advertising or other deceptive or manipulative distraction from the essence of quality, service, craftsmanship and value: The things we were once best known for.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Recommnded Reading On American Democracy

Ref: Greese, and whats happening to this country try this short read:

Cry for Me Argentina


http://onemansthoughts.wordpress.com/2009/12/06/cry-for-me-argentina/

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: Recommnded Reading On American Democracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BillPrudden</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Orion -

Humbled we are, I assure you, that those who invented "the west" now turn their gaze to us for guidance.

I believe one of the best ways of learning about America is through "Democracy in America", a book by Tocqueville, a French penologist who traveled here to write about our institutions but ended up writing mostly about just us. The America, and Americans, he describes represent perhaps only half, or fewer, of us, but are, without a doubt, the half which make America distinctly what it is.

That said, I fear we may be soon following in your footsteps regarding credit and mistrust and helplessness. We are spending more than we take in, and see it is a human right...

Bill </div></div>

I echo Bill's recommendation: de Tocqueville isn't edge of your seat reading, but he captured so much of what it means to be American.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Recommnded Reading On American Democracy

And here I thought Cooper's 'Art of the Rife', 'To Ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth' were all a guy needed to look into what it is to be American

While the above listed is great, I do have to recommend my aforementioned reading. Cooper speaks well, and speaks of what it is to be, think, and feel 'American'.

 

[Ol' RD]

Re: Recommnded Reading On American Democracy

James, Cooper writes how to be a real American! The rest tell us how we came into being. Q. Like a lot of guys on this site, I will live an die by my work ethic. I truely do not believe WE are the minority, only we spend most of your time actually taking care of our selves an our families. We will survive INSPITE of Big Government not because of it. IMHO.

I think you would agree with me on that.

 

[kospap]

Re: Recommnded Reading On American Democracy

well...I am not trying to be an american...though my friends think i am already TOO american....

just looking for inspiration in place that was better than today by general standards??? whatever....

BTW anyone got a gist of what that book I mentioned is? It woudl be a pleasure to read for the outdoor part too..

 

[SavageStag]

Re: Recommnded Reading On American Democracy

I appreciate your interest, but if you really want to learn about our system of government it is actually a republic. I would start by reading about the founding fathers and the constitution. I'm not sure why we started calling it a democracy because it is not.

 

[Guest]

Re: Recommnded Reading On American Democracy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representative_democracy

 

[rmfield]

Re: Recommnded Reading On American Democracy

This is not exactly what you asked for, but I think "The Road to Serfdom" by Friedrich Von Hayek would be particularly appropriate. He's an early 20th century Austrian economist. I think you will find he hits the nail on the head with regard to where Greece is today and the rest of us seem to be headed.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Recommnded Reading On American Democracy

While I support all that has been said above; I have my doubts that a democratic republic built on the original American model could be viable in the current day and age.

It came about in a world where instant transportation and communication were not even a daydream, people's horizons were within actual sight, and anything approaching from beyond that could be seen coming a long way off. Self sufficiency was both necessary and possible

Now, our lives are changed in an instant, by means and individuals we have never met, and we only find out about it as an afterthought. Self sufficiency is now unnecessary, and may well be impossible even if we wanted it. What's more, there is no habitable place where this is not so, or soon to be so.

Humanity was more sparse, and more welcome when met. These days, our fellow man is both ubiquitous and intrusive. Nobody wants more near them.

There was a time following WWII when prosperity was so bountiful that many otherwise unworkable strategies would still render a decent living. Soon we encountered offshore wealth and prosperity which challenged and sometimes supplanted our own until we ended up with what we have now. Those unworkable strategies are long extinct, and we are finding that as our prosperity fails, so does the means of government it once supported. What we see in Greece and elsewhere is simply the harbinger of our own fate, postponed while our means of governance is still marginally sustainable, but not for much longer. Government has become a parasite that has luxuriated in its growth until it has outgrown it source of sustenance.

As species progress, they go through phases. In the case of humanity, the democratic republic phase has outlived its relevence, and a newer phase is approaching.

Don't ask me what it is, it beats me cold; but I don't think any of us is going to like it as much was what once was and no longer is.

Humanity is on the verge of a crossroads. It turns outward, expands and survives in new environments; or it turns inward, stagnates, and diminishes.

Dodos were real; as were the Incas, Aztecs, and Mayans.

Once.

Greg

 

[brutus1776]

Re: Recommnded Reading On American Democracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rmfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is not exactly what you asked for, but I think "The Road to Serfdom" by Friedrich Von Hayek would be particularly appropriate. He's an early 20th century Austrian economist. I think you will find he hits the nail on the head with regard to where Greece is today and the rest of us seem to be headed. </div></div>

agreed.
only problem is for most people the book is a tad <span style="font-style: italic">dry</span> and hard to understand if you dont like economics/intellectual type political theory. also it was written specifically in regards to england at the time, but obviously applies to everyone everywhere.

i'd recommend tom woods book 'melt down' for a specific look into financial panics.

for a historical view on the classical liberalism of america (democracy is not a good term to use, the US is a REPUBLIC not a democracy. in a republic rights are not up for majority vote.) i'd recommend looking through both the federalist and anti federalist papers. you'll learn that the anti federalists were proven right in just about all their objections to the constitution. john taylor of caroline's 'new views of the constitution' is also a great classical liberal treatise.

perhaps yall can tell from my anti federalist user name that i tend toward the antifederalist view in theory and a constitutionalist view in practice

 

[kospap]

Re: Recommnded Reading On American Democracy

hmm soem points so far

rmfield & brutus1776,

I think we are having a good grasp were we are....the question is where shoudl we go....

Greg
maybe a democratic republic is a good place to look fro ideas...after all there is a major reconstruction of the Greek administration system taht will bring us closer to teh state form of regional goverment.

Switchblade...forgot to add, I have read The Grargantuan Ginsite Gossip....I had asked for the TRSS&TTT but hiw office sent me that instead.

SavageStag ...good point...I just recently had a look in wiki on conmgress & teh house....
Any recomending reading from the founding fathers? thta seems closer to what I search

 

[rmfield]

Re: Recommnded Reading On American Democracy

With all due respect, your form of government (parliamentary democracy) is not necessarily your problem and our form of government (constitutional republic) is not necessarily the solution. More concisely, government is not the answer. I suggested Hayek's book because I thought it might help you see the root of the problem and I still strongly recommend it.

As far as recommended reading from our founding fathers, the Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers have already been suggested and they are amongst the best of our founder's writing.

And as long as I have your ear, read "Animal Farm" by Orwell. A simplistic little book that says alot.

 

[kospap]

Re: Recommnded Reading On American Democracy

I see...I get your point....after all I am not powerfull enought o force a change LOL....
But i do want to ahv a keen ear on what the politicians are telling (and may not) in the next elections or some time before...

Now starts the time of more secific search...

Thank you all for your suggestions....points taken and saved...

Kostas

edit: for what is worth, I google search not only gave me the appers in pdf format to download, but also other useful stuff like:

A CONCISE GUIDE TO THE FEDERALIST PAPERS AS A SOURCE OF THE ORIGINAL MEANING OF THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION
HOW TO READ THE FEDERALIST PAPERS

even an audio book....

 

[Bowman]

Re: Recommnded Reading On American Democracy

I would check out anything about Ronald Reagan and his philosophies. I don't want to start a political debate with anybody here so don't expect a reply if you disagree with me. I find most arguments against President Reagan's decisions and leadership apathetic at best.

I speak for myself only. Ronald Reagan is my hero for many reasons so this post is insanely biased. I'm also mustering GREAT restraint not to turn this into a 500 page reply.

Every feeling that I have toward government policy is directly in line with President Reagan's. I feel that he was one of the few people that knew exactly how to lead a country and it's people to greatness. You would do yourself a disservice if you neglect to take a glance at "government" through the eyes of the best president to ever walk the face of this earth.

 

[Arch]

Re: Recommnded Reading On American Democracy

Democracy is "the line that forms on the right." -E.B. White

Required reading for 1st year political science scholars can be found BY Clicking Here

Some snowballs cannot be rolled back up hill though...

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Recommnded Reading On American Democracy

Surely there must be words that have the power to inflame the good people of this country into not only making valid change, but moving US in a direction toward common sense law, family values, and reading our old documents for the literal words they hold, not the spirit as applied in our time. I fear that none may offer the words to move the people, nor the power which they hold due to sway by so many moronic 'Honorable' people(of which there are some 450 or so)

 

[kospap]

Re: Recommnded Reading On American Democracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Forty-One</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Democracy is "the line that forms on the right." -E.B. White

Required reading for 1st year political science scholars can be found BY Clicking Here

Some snowballs cannot be rolled back up hill though... </div></div>

hmm Tocqueville...thanks for the link